Liverpool FC Forum

by **tubby** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:57 pm

devaney wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Im gonna say this an then me head will be clear. Gerrard if you wanna be a fu,cking captain you need to show it on the pitch lad , im sorry and i know this is not gonna go down well but he was a shi.tehouse out there today and im fuming with him , If you cant be ar,sed dont get on the fu,cking coach, yeh i love him but fecking hell Stevie lad sort your head out ,

Someone told him that they would rather see Liverpool relegated than have Hicks and Gillett as our owners. Gerrard is just playing his part in granting your wishes Nan

ha ha fair cop, but im not getting paid fecking thousands a week . I dunno Saint i love the lad to bits but his heads down by his a.rse at the mo, There were so many tackles that he could of gone infor today but shyed away, Stray passes , were normaly he is inch perfect , not just today but in a few games this season all of them lately, He is doing my head in with his half a.rsed approach,

I don't think he is fully fit now or that he has been all season. I think he is playing with a bad groin ..... either that or he needs a kick in it. He looks a yard slower this season and I have never seen him miss as many tackles as he has this year.

Its hurting me Saint to actualy see him playing like this, This season he has looked a shadow of his usual self, An i wanna see that back, I am sure he will turn the corner and get back to playing and driving on like he used to , i just hope its here , But hes still doing my head in the language i abused him with today was unmerciful,

It's not just the tackles, Stevie G has given up shooting for goal as well. Two great opportunities today and he passes the ball? He is as p.issed off as the rest of the team. First Babel has a go about Benitez and more recently Rierra has a go about Benitez's communication skills. If Gerrard wasn't the captain on crazy money then he would be having a go as well. Just what the fk did Benitez say at half time today. He is inept in the extreme. The team looked more deflated and fed up after his half time talk. If players are having a go then it is time for him to fk off. If anybody is capable of keeping the faith in Benitez then good luck.

Benitez has had as much money as anybody to spend other than Chelsea during the last five years with the possible exception of last year. He has generally performed badly in the transfer market and yet he still get's defended. Somebody has even calculated that we have only lost £1m on the Keane deal when the terms of the transfer will not complete for at least another 2/3 years! Ffs I give in!

It's probably his groin giving him niggles.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:16 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Its hurting me Saint to actualy see him playing like this, This season he has looked a shadow of his usual self, An i wanna see that back, I am sure he will turn the corner and get back to playing and driving on like he used to , i just hope its here , But hes still doing my head in the language i abused him with today was unmerciful,

Totally agree Girl.... Gerrard for me just doesn't merit an inclusion right now ,the team this season have played better in his absence and that is a discernible fact ,every game now I have waited anticipating Gerrards return to his all conquering form ,but all to often I find myself loathe to accept what is staring me in my disbelieving face he simply is resigned to failure where this season is concerned ,what is so alarming is this disinterested lethargic persona is something I never envisaged him displaying and its heartbreaking to watch ,I honestly will never feel the same sense of pride I used to feel when Gerrard took to the field displaying the assured arrogance that came with knowing he was head and shoulders above the rest, and in turn he had enough talent to compensate for all the other inadequate players he shared the field with ........

I just think now given his almost meek participation in most games ,that we can ill afford to carry such a passenger albeit such a talented one ,I think the inclusion of Aquilani is imperative in these last few games ,I just think Gerrards attitude of late has had a debilitating effect on the whole team ,don't get me wrong I rate Gerrard on his day as one of the finest midfielders in the world, its just that this accounts for nothing when if he even advocated given 60% he still would be the the best player on the field ,its just at this time I haven't seen Stevie give 40% of what he is capable of ,and if he goes to South Africa and is one of the tournaments most standout players then his betrayal in my eyes would have been complete .

I have always backed Gerrard to the hilt when he has been wrongly criticised and it hurts like hell to admit ,but its time to start playing for the fans again and putting aside his differences with the manager ,I will always support and defend any player that gives 100% even given their limited abilities and so will the Kop ,and as a Scouser I considered Stevie as one of our own ,but this season he has delivered a veritable kick in the teeth to the club he is supposed to love ,there is a very famous football saying that a player is only as good as his last game ,with this in mind our patience as fans has been seriously tested this season

I think when you know that a player has enough ability to genuinely transform a game single handedly ,then I don't deem it a burden expecting them to at least give all they have got to the cause ,but to play in the manner Gerrard played today was inexcusable ,I had thought Gerrards low point would have been at Reading when he went through the entire game without executing one tackle and played the whole game without breaking into a slow canter let alone the lung bursting runs he is synonymous with ,but Today refutes my earlier claim Today he arrived at an all-time low for me

Sad sad days indeed and we can question the managers decisions all day long ,or we can discuss the inclusion of Lucas ,but when the involvement of your best players and I mean your World Class players are becoming the managers most questionable decision ,and time after time this season has been unreservedly proven ,then that's when the future of this club comes into question

I think I and many many others have always vehemently defended Gerrard given his past displays ,but like I said too many times this season he has delivered a slap in the face to the supporters and the team by his petulance on and off the field,it has to be said that if a player like Gerrard genuinely wanted to grab a game by the scruff of the neck then he could do so with aplomb ,why we have yet to see such passion is baffling in the extreme and a source of great concern

by **tonyeh** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:37 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
s@int wrote:We have already lost 10 games out of 31, in Houlliers last season we only lost 8 games out of 38.

Maybe if we were to get a huge transfer chest off our loving owners Rafa might be able to turn things around. As that is looking slightly doubtful, maybe we should be looking for a manager who can do more with less.

This team needs more inspiration, less persperation and more footballers not spoilers.

We should be looking for a manager that can do more with what we've got already.

And one who plays the fuckin players he squanders money on.

Seriously, I wouldn't trust Benitez to go to the local newsagent for sweets with my money.

You are sam Allardyce and I claim my five pounds back.

Seriously, do you know how much of a ballbag you sound in this post?

Be quiet, you fool.

by **bunglemark2** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:54 pm

Late, I know, but what an embarrassment today. A no-show for the second half. A captain who is not a captain. A club in freefall. We put 4 past them this time last year. A farking disgrace. That's all there is to say.
Bye bye Champions League football for a long long time...'cos if Citeh get 4th, they'll pump so much money into the team that we won't catch them. Even Spudz are streets ahead in the finances league...
This match is just so symptomatic of the clubs demise.

by **Dundalk** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:24 am

Benítez was aggrieved by the penalty that set Manchester United on the way to a 2-1 win, accusing Antonio Valencia of diving, and he referred to his previous accusations that Ferguson placed referees under pressure. "We know about the influence of Sir Alex in everything," he said. "I've seen three replays [from different angles] and the last one was suspicious. See the replay for yourself and how he fell to the ground." Asked whether he was saying it was a dive, he replied: "Yes, I think so. There is contact but the way he fell down – it was strange."

Television pictures showed the initial contact from Javier Mascherano had been outside the penalty area and Benítez was asked whether Ferguson had been trying to get into the mind of the referee, Howard Webb, when he talked on Friday of the Anfield club getting preferential treatment. "Just on Friday he said something?" he interrupted, his tone heavy with sarcasm. "Which Friday? This Friday or every Friday? Or every Friday of every year?"

Ferguson had written in his programme notes that he felt "a twinge of sympathy" for Benítez's current predicament, but the bad feeling between the two managers led to a confrontation on the touchline shortly after Wayne Rooney had scored his 33rd goal of the season, turning in the rebound after Pepe Reina had saved his penalty.

Rooney, recently troubled by a knee injury, left Old Trafford with a pronounced limp. His goal cancelled out Fernando Torres's fifth-minute header for Liverpool, with Park Ji-sung scoring the winner in the second half. "When you have different opinions you have to express those different opinions," Benítez said of that argument. "As you know, he [Ferguson] has his own opinion about everything."

Ferguson's argument was that Mascherano should have been sent off. "I thought the penalty kick was a red card," he said. "There was no way [Jamie] Carragher could have got across to stop Valencia from shooting, absolutely no way. He [Valencia] is too quick for Carragher to get across. It was a penalty but the law of the game is that if you stop a player from a goalscoring opportunity it's a red card, but not today it wasn't."

The United manager was unaware at that point that Benítez had spoken of Valencia being creative in his fall. "He [Mascherano] tugged him, and obviously I think the referee is right," Ferguson said. "He has got to play the advantage [after the first contact] because he was right through on goal and it wasn't until he was inside the box that he brought him down. So I think that was correct."

Benítez, however, was angered by what he perceived as several crucial decisions going in United's favour and said he was sufficiently concerned at half-time to tell Torres to keep his focus on the game. It was "not easy" for Torres, the manager reflected, and there was more heavy irony when he noted how Gary Neville's studs had connected with Maxi Rodríguez, leaving the Argentinian with a bloodied head. "I think it must have been a bird from the sky," he said.

by **red_guy** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:00 am

Not happy during the game and definitely not happy after the game. Tired of listening to lack of transfer kitty etc. Arsenal have a better, cheaper squad, played better, challenging for titles..ok, they have a good scouting system, but why can't we have the same? We have more money than them to spend.. Money is still the problem but not the biggest problem with us. Bad scouting, bad selections of player, boring style of play, negative tactics etc. Seriously i'd be happy if we attack them consistently (more effort on trying to win than trying not to lose) but still end up losing.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:20 am

I can't believe.......Gerrard has saved Benitez's A$$ so many times.... And now he gets the abuse when he can't do his superman act this season... :no

LEt me put it this way.......Even maradona will have problem playing to his full capability if he had a Lucas & Mascherano combo behind him. And put "the 2nd best RW in the premierleague last season (according to some stats)" and bam........ he becomes a liability to the team.

You want to see the best of gerrard ? Then ask Benitez to pick the strongest team FFS.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:25 am

LFC ANIME wrote:If Martin O'Neil took in charge (if the cowboys left?)

Our Team will be:

Reina
G.Johnson, New Cb, New Cb (Carragher past expiry date), New Lb

J.Milner, Veleso or moutinho, Gerrard, A.Young

Abalonghor, Torres

We can all dream right?

Why mention 3 Villa players? and whats wrong with Agger?

by **red_guy** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:36 am

The_Rock wrote:I can't believe.......Gerrard has saved Benitez's A$$ so many times.... And now he gets the abuse when he can't do his superman act this season...

LEt me put it this way.......Even maradona will have problem playing to his full capability if he had a Lucas & Mascherano combo behind him. And put "the 2nd best RW in the premierleague last season (according to some stats)" and bam........ he becomes a liability to the team.

You want to see the best of gerrard ? Then ask Benitez to pick the strongest team FFS.

Agree, You ROCK!! :buttrock

by **devaney** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:22 am

Elaborate if you can and show me your calculations on Keane whilst your at it.

by **LittleHobo** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:29 am

red_guy wrote:
The_Rock wrote:I can't believe.......Gerrard has saved Benitez's A$$ so many times.... And now he gets the abuse when he can't do his superman act this season...

LEt me put it this way.......Even maradona will have problem playing to his full capability if he had a Lucas & Mascherano combo behind him. And put "the 2nd best RW in the premierleague last season (according to some stats)" and bam........ he becomes a liability to the team.

You want to see the best of gerrard ? Then ask Benitez to pick the strongest team FFS.

Agree, You ROCK!!

he looks slow

expalin that?

hes played the last 6 or 7 games so hes match fit and clear of injury

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:55 am

Scottbot wrote:
s@int wrote:We have already lost 10 games out of 31,in Houlliers last season we only lost 8 games out of 38.

Maybe if we were to get a huge transfer chest off our loving owners Rafa might be able to turn things around. As that is looking slightly doubtful, maybe we should be looking for a manager who can do more with less.

This team needs more inspiration, less persperation and more footballers not spoilers.

Assessment couldn't be anymore accurate or concise mate. If we can't compete on an even footing with the mancs, Chelsea, City etc then we need a manager who can come in and OVER-ACHIEVE.

It could be a lot more accurate, accurate full-stop would be a start.

LIVERPOOL PREMIERSHIP 2003/04

P38 W16 D12 L10 PTS 60

We lost five at home, five away, but still finished 4th and four points clear of Newcastle in 5th. Four times previously we've lost 10 games in a season, most is 16 in a 42 game Premiership and Rafa jointly holds the 38 game Premiership record for us of 14 defeats in a season. We've only lost eight games in a season ONCE in the Premiership, back in 1996/97.

I won't quote the stat of our record when we don't get a second goal, but it again comes back to haunt us. Our last four wins have come having scored more than once, our last away win still stands as back in December and we need to fix that asap

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:58 am

devaney wrote:Elaborate if you can and show me your calculations on Keane whilst your at it.

Don't hold your breath, he's one of those that comes on here, throws derogatory comments about without the mods picking up on it and the forum doesn't need it.

by **devaney** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:07 am

Owzat wrote:
devaney wrote:Elaborate if you can and show me your calculations on Keane whilst your at it.

Don't hold your breath, he's one of those that comes on here, throws derogatory comments about without the mods picking up on it and the forum doesn't need it.

I know Owzat but I thought I would dignify his idiotic and childish response with a reasonably sensible question. He has asked me in the past not to patronise him but any response to the garbage he writes is going to appear patronising!

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:14 am

Bad Bob wrote:D.amn, and it started so well didn't it? What a nice goal from Torres and it looked like we were off to the races. A poor header from Insua, though, to let Valencia in and, for me, it was a penalty even though the contact began outside the box. From then on it looked like we were content with a draw and had no answer when Park scored. With that said, I would have backed Torres to slot home at least one of the two second half chances he had in their box. I guess he is human. There's no shame losing to an in-form United at OT but our anemic attack and ponderous build-up play (when we weren't doing the hit and hope routine that is) is a serious cause for alarm. What a contrast to a year ago when we swept forward with menace on their patch. Sigh.

Problem is we do seem capable of playing only well for small parts, that is more or less expected when you go to places like that though. Did we seriously expect to boss possession? I suggested earlier in the season we might have a problem with discipline, few agreed with me, yet our fouling and yellow cards causes us problems. Mascherano booked and effectively muzzled and chained from there-on in, his indiscipline costing us the penalty with stupid shirt-tugging, although Reina saved brilliantly he couldn't stop the rebound. Yet Mascherano is still praised outright despite that penalty being pivotal in the direction of the game.

Our full-backs looked equally not worth much, I think we paid about £12m too much for Johnson. "World Class" right-back who can't defend, do me a favour!

Insua gets by at the best of times, I can only guess Rodriguez was supposed to double up on Valencia with him, but what did we do to nobhead in their side? Caused him zero problems, I said before the game we should have stuck with the side from Thursday and I was probably right. Don't know why Kuyt is getting stick, well I do know, it it just constant criticism when the team doesn't play well that scapegoats will always get the flak. What did Gerrard do that made him stand out? Kuyt "does nothing", well I must have confused him with the bloke that set up Torres for the opener and was involved in other good moves, one of which nearly resulted in another goal.

But as usual Rafa was too busy barking out at players who can't hear him instead of changing things. It was a certainty we'd have Mascherano and Lucas in midfield, I agreed in the sense I wouldn't have changed Thursday's starting XI, but as I'm sure I said in this thread I'd have brought Aquilani on the minute we lost control and that could have been as early as half-time as I may well have mentioned.

The side doesn't look like it has the mental energy to last 90 minutes, I'm glad I haven't seen people blaming having played Thursday on fitness, but how many look at the contributions of players like Mascherano and Gerrard and ask if they are pulling their weight. I guess Mascherano will be applauded regardless whether he wins the ball a lot, or concedes 20 penalties as it can always be blamed on Insua's header or something else. And I can't believe, well again actually I can, that someone is excusing Gerrard on the basis of past seasons. That's like saying Rafa should be manager forever because of Istanbul, even if we went down to the conference. Gerrard is supposedly "World Class", except "World Class" midfielders don't rely on past heroics they continue to produce new ones. That's why I laugh at Beckham and his long history of brilliant free-kicks that BOTH happened over seven years ago and that's about it.

At the end of the day a 1-2 defeat away to the mancs isn't the end of the world, disappointing and not without misery, but aren't we all preparing for missing out on 4th? Maybe it hurts because it was one straw to clutch at and because we'd won there last season. BUT we were playing well at that stage last season, at the moment we're struggling along and winning one or two, then drawing, losing a couple then winning one or two, drawing............................... Can we blame the players? To an extent, but some did all they can while others you have to question whether they did. Kuyt and Lucas get nominated as "poor" and "not good enough", yet were they the weakest links? Of course not, but could we possibly dare suggest Johnson, Gerrard and Mascherano had a poor game? It would be a first if all three got called on it along with Insua, whether Lucas and Kuyt also deserve it or not

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