Liverpool FC Forum

by **Scottbot** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:25 pm

You can put money on the same approach at City, put your house on it. Rafa (as a couple of others have pointed out) has gone back to basics, to what he knows best. He tried to do things differently this time around, attacking fullbacks, more expansive style etc and it hasn't worked for him. He's playing the percentages from here on in.

I reckon we will beat City playing same game we played at the Emirates.

by **stmichael** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:31 pm

Scottbot wrote:You can put money on the same approach at City, put your house on it. Rafa (as a couple of others have pointed out) has gone back to basics, to what he knows best. He tried to do things differently this time around, attacking fullbacks, more expansive style etc and it hasn't worked for him. He's playing the percentages from here on in.

I reckon we will beat City playing same game we played at the Emirates.

they're massively overrated anyway imo.

rafa gets clog for playing lucas and masch in games at home. well in games this season city have played a central midfield of de jong, barry and zabaleta. hardly creative is it? the other day vieira played in there. it's just a case of rafa's system putting the emphasis on the attacking coming from the fullbacks rather than the centre midfield, hence his pursuit of daniel alves a few years back.

agree about injuries though. i mean our four best attackers have all been injured for large parts of the season. three of them (benny, johnson and torres) are still out.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:51 pm

Scottbot wrote:If you asked me beofre the game, what was out best chance of winning at the Emirates, to abandon a formation and method that has proved successful the past 7 games (particularly against the backdrop of previous results) in favour for a more expansive approach I would say no everytime.

Agree with that, Scott. Arsenal have certainly had a poor run of results of late but on their own pitch they were always going to be a handful. At the very least you would expect them to boss possession and cause some problems in the final third over the course of the 90 minutes. I think Rafa was correct to look to keep things tight and see if we could nick one down at the other end--especially given that that's the system we know and the one that has got us moving back in the right direction of late. My only beef was that the lads weren't a bit more 'shoot on sight' about things on the night. Almunia really is a liability for them in goal and should be put to the test at every opportunity. I thought we created quite a few openings, only for our lads to take an extra touch or try and find a killer pass when having a pop might have done the trick.

by **Scottbot** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:26 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Scottbot wrote:If you asked me beofre the game, what was out best chance of winning at the Emirates, to abandon a formation and method that has proved successful the past 7 games (particularly against the backdrop of previous results) in favour for a more expansive approach I would say no everytime.

Agree with that, Scott. Arsenal have certainly had a poor run of results of late but on their own pitch they were always going to be a handful. At the very least you would expect them to boss possession and cause some problems in the final third over the course of the 90 minutes. I think Rafa was correct to look to keep things tight and see if we could nick one down at the other end--especially given that that's the system we know and the one that has got us moving back in the right direction of late. My only beef was that the lads weren't a bit more 'shoot on sight' about things on the night. Almunia really is a liability for them in goal and should be put to the test at every opportunity. I thought we created quite a few openings, only for our lads to take an extra touch or try and find a killer pass when having a pop might have done the trick.

His response once we conceded was to slow as well. Babel and Riera should have been straight on the moment they scored. I don't understand what's happening with Riera? He seems to be the latest to get Rafa's silent treatment which is crazy given Rodriquez has had littel to no impact since he arrived at the club. Riera would be in my team every week, particularly as his presence helps counter-balance our (Rafa's) over reliance on grafters such as Lucas, Kuyt, Masch, Carra (at FB) at the expence of flair.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:37 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Scottbot wrote:If you asked me beofre the game, what was out best chance of winning at the Emirates, to abandon a formation and method that has proved successful the past 7 games (particularly against the backdrop of previous results) in favour for a more expansive approach I would say no everytime.

Agree with that, Scott. Arsenal have certainly had a poor run of results of late but on their own pitch they were always going to be a handful. At the very least you would expect them to boss possession and cause some problems in the final third over the course of the 90 minutes. I think Rafa was correct to look to keep things tight and see if we could nick one down at the other end--especially given that that's the system we know and the one that has got us moving back in the right direction of late. My only beef was that the lads weren't a bit more 'shoot on sight' about things on the night. Almunia really is a liability for them in goal and should be put to the test at every opportunity. I thought we created quite a few openings, only for our lads to take an extra touch or try and find a killer pass when having a pop might have done the trick.

His response once we conceded was to slow as well. Babel and Riera should have been straight on the moment they scored. I don't understand what's happening with Riera? He seems to be the latest to get Rafa's silent treatment which is crazy given Rodriquez has had littel to no impact since he arrived at the club. Riera would be in my team every week, particularly as his presence helps counter-balance our (Rafa's) over reliance on grafters such as Lucas, Kuyt, Masch, Carra (at FB) at the expence of flair.

I agree with that as well, mate. Riera is an important player for us in that he provides most of the width for our set-up, particularly with Johnson out. And, while I am pleased that Rafa is throwing Maxi in straight away instead of giving him the usual kid gloves treatment, I don't like to see it at the expense of Riera necessarily. I'd prefer to see Stevie drop back into midfield alongside Masch, with Kuyt, Maxi and Riera in support of Ngog. Same system as we're comfortable with but with more potential to do something in attack.

by **Boocity** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:54 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Scottbot wrote:If you asked me beofre the game, what was out best chance of winning at the Emirates, to abandon a formation and method that has proved successful the past 7 games (particularly against the backdrop of previous results) in favour for a more expansive approach I would say no everytime.

Agree with that, Scott. Arsenal have certainly had a poor run of results of late but on their own pitch they were always going to be a handful. At the very least you would expect them to boss possession and cause some problems in the final third over the course of the 90 minutes. I think Rafa was correct to look to keep things tight and see if we could nick one down at the other end--especially given that that's the system we know and the one that has got us moving back in the right direction of late. My only beef was that the lads weren't a bit more 'shoot on sight' about things on the night. Almunia really is a liability for them in goal and should be put to the test at every opportunity. I thought we created quite a few openings, only for our lads to take an extra touch or try and find a killer pass when having a pop might have done the trick.

His response once we conceded was to slow as well. Babel and Riera should have been straight on the moment they scored. I don't understand what's happening with Riera? He seems to be the latest to get Rafa's silent treatment which is crazy given Rodriquez has had littel to no impact since he arrived at the club. Riera would be in my team every week, particularly as his presence helps counter-balance our (Rafa's) over reliance on grafters such as Lucas, Kuyt, Masch, Carra (at FB) at the expence of flair.

And this silent treatment to players is the problem, Rafa only seems to have faith in players who are grafters and have no creative ability at all. Sometimes it seems that we are being stifled of creativity.

I do not agree with whats been said previously about going for the draw as Arsenal would have slaughted us. they were there for the taking, come off three defeats, lost 3-0 at home to a poor ManU side, and we are scared of them ripping us apart, no perfect opportunity to go at them, that would have been the last thing they expected.

When Wenger saw our team sheet he must have rubbed his hands with glee. just what they wanted, no pressure.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:02 pm

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:10 pm

It's SOS not SAS numbnuts

by **Boocity** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:37 pm

If we start looking at fixtures and picking teams based on, 'we can win that one', 'lets play for a draw that one', 'lets try not to get beat that one', then we may as well be fecking Wolves.

Thats not the Liverpool way, thats not what this club is about.

by **puroresu** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:43 pm

Scottbot wrote:
stmichael wrote:
s@int wrote:I hope we show a much more adventurous approach against Citeh or we may live to regret it.

so do i because i'm going

this season i've been to leeds, sunderland, blackburn and villa. four of the worst games i've ever seen

agree about the approach. i mean maxi looked poor the other night but it's hardly going to be easy for him playing out of position in a side with so little movement. i'd rather we had a go like we did second half down there last season.

Blackburn was the 2nd worst game i've ever been to dude! I've never been so bored!

So what your saying is your a bloody jonah!

I remember in 05 going to Southampton away (Mauricio Pellegrino's debut). That was the worst performance I have seen from Liverpool. An absolute shocker. Wolves away this year may of just been worse though.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:29 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:It's SOS not SAS numbnuts

by **Owzat** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:42 am

puroresu wrote:I remember in 05 going to Southampton away (Mauricio Pellegrino's debut). That was the worst performance I have seen from Liverpool. An absolute shocker. Wolves away this year may of just been worse though.

Except Pellegrino's debut was against Man Utd..............................

Was it a worse performance than Palace away?!>?

by **Owzat** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:15 am

Boocity wrote:If we start looking at fixtures and picking teams based on, 'we can win that one', 'lets play for a draw that one', 'lets try not to get beat that one', then we may as well be fecking Wolves.

Thats not the Liverpool way, thats not what this club is about.

I agree wholeheartedly for two reasons, 1) as you say if we're happy with non-winning results then we may as be Wolves or some mid-table side just "happy to be here" and 2) if we want to win the league we need to win games, you settle for a draw if you've been second best AND pushed hard for the win and simply couldn't get anything out of the game.

We seem to set our stall out to be difficult to beat and show some (countrer)attacking intent without ever being like the mancs who showed more against villa WITH TEN MEN than we usually do with XI. People moan about their clever signing of a well-known goalscorer called Own Goal, but they make their luck count and it's pressure that makes the defenders make errors.

PREMIERSHIP TOP SCORERS

62 Man Utd
61 Chelsea, Arsenal
47 Man City
45 Tottenham
43 LIVERPOOL
35 Everton

We're sixth but consider that we won 4-0, 4-0 and 6-1 early season at home and that is near enough 1/3 of our goals in three games (3/26 = 1/9 give or take) Outside of those three romps we've scored 29 goals in 23 games which is poor. That said we had scored 43 goals after 26 games last season, we scored 34 in the last 12 in a fantastic run but lost away to boro in game 27 so let's hope that doesn't repeat itself

PREMIERSHIP TIGHTEST DEFENCES

19 A Villa
21 Man Utd
22 Chelsea
26 Tottenham, Birmingham
27 Stoke, LIVERPOOL
30 Arsenal
32 Man City

We've conceded as many goals as Stoke and as many with 12 games to go as we did all last Premiership campaign. How can STOKE match us defensively? No excuse of money, it's not like their back five cost as much as our most expensive back four which at times can contain two CBs and a GK costing around £6m each and a £17.5m full-back. villa may have conceded fewest but they have only scored 32 and sides in the bottom three aren't far behind (Bolton 29, Burnley 25)

If we attack more, and competently without giving the ball away or wasting possession, then we should score more and concede less by the virtue you rarely concede when the ball isn't in your half. Sometimes games you might be more cagey in, but we over-rely on Mascherano and play him and Lucas in far more games than should be necessary. Sure you play the better sides on the counter, if you don't you end up like Arsenal and look good, don't score and get hit on the sucker punch yourselves. But we constantly draw against too many sides we should beat.

09/10 (5/5) : Birmingham (h), Man City (h), Blackburn (a), Stoke (a), Wolves (a)
08/09 (8/11) : Stoke (h), Stoke (a), Fulham (h), West Ham (h), Hull (h), Everton (h), Wigan (a), Man City (h),
07/08 (7/13) : Portsmouth (a), Birmingham (h), Tottenham (h), Blackburn (a), Wigan (h), Middlesboro (a), A Villa (h)

We've reduced the number of draws this season, but at the cost of more defeats already than in the previous two seasons combined. Throw in the odd silly defeat we're also prone to, Fulham away, Reading away, Boro away, Pompey away etc and we drop stupid points. I've listed 20 draws that could and probably should have been converted into at least 10-15 wins. Have ANY of our draws in all competitions this season been games we couldn't and shouldn't have won?!?! Whack our points up by the 10 we've dropped through draws alone and we'd be four points off the lead with the leaders and second placed team still to pay. Convert that draw in Lyon to the win it should have been and wouldn't we be in the last sixteen of the CL................?

Lack of ambition, Rafa too cautious as I've said before, not learning. If fans think cautious will win us the league then they're kidding themselves, I reckon even if we had Messi, Ronaldo and Kaka they'd probably be rotated and two out of three on the bench! EDIT - and brought on in the 75th minute or later, expected to change the game with no more than 20 minutes to do it :veryangry

by **puroresu** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:40 pm

I honestly believe Lionel Messi in this current liverpool side would be half of the player you see at Barcelona. Rafa would choke the fun factor out of his game. I could just imagine Rafa telling him not to try and run past 3 players.

by **Fowler_E7** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:57 pm

puroresu wrote:I honestly believe Lionel Messi in this current liverpool side would be half of the player you see at Barcelona. Rafa would choke the fun factor out of his game. I could just imagine Rafa telling him not to try and run past 3 players.

dont be an idiot, does he choke Fernando Torres game? Rafa's problem is that he dosnt enough creative players into the starting 11, usually no more than 4 or 5 out the first 11

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