Liverpool FC Forum

[Thingy]

Who heard about them lads from Uefa gettin kicked in the first leg, reminded me by you sayin you was sittin with there fans Nanny, they got hurled abuse at and threw out by stewards, and they were representing UEFA. Disgraceful.

[maguskwt]

why change the system when we've already tried 4-4-2 all season long and stuttered... crouch played very well today but I wouldn't change the system to accomodate crouch... if it was diego or van der vaart or david villa then yes... but not for crouch... not when with this system we've won 7 out of 8 games...

Well, the system was poor agaisnt Arsenal and it's not a system we have had tested properly yet against top opposition (The Inter and Man Utd games were against 10 men) unless you count the Arsenal game on Wednesday.

We changed the system today, and with lesser quality, we fared much better against Arsenal.

we did not change the system today... it was still 4-2-3-1... lucas as plessis as the holding midfielders, riise and pennant as wingers, benayoun in gerrard's role and crouch as lone striker...

if we wanna play crouch AND torres we gotta go back to 4-4-2... and whenever I saw crouch and torres play together in our earlier games it didn't work... so yes it doesn't convince me

The system looked more like 4-1-4-1 to me with Plesis holdin and Lucas and Yossi ahead.

well if we are doing well and one of the defensive midfielders have time enough to go forward and help out on the offense then it becomes like 4-1-4-1 like you said doesn't it? if alonso/masch had more time the same thing will happen...essentially it was the same system, only the personal was changed...

[RedBlood]

great result and from what i hear a good performance
ill watch the game later tonight when its showed over here   but im very happy to hear plesis got a start and played well hes a good player and along with nemeth and insua look the most likely to break into the first team

thats 2 draws at the emirates now for a victory at anfield 

[god_bless_john_houlding]

if we wanna play crouch AND torres we gotta go back to 4-4-2... and whenever I saw crouch and torres play together in our earlier games it didn't work... so yes it doesn't convince me

you don't remember Torres' hattrick against Reading in the league cup then?

Crouch causes havoc if nothing else. If you see a team with Torres and Kuyt, you know you only have to worry about Torres whereas with Torrs and Crouch you've both to worry about. We tried 4-4-2 and very few times did we see Crouch and Torres together up front.

[RedBlood]

i believe we have to get the balance right, against lesser teams 4 5 1 works perfectly as our recent run proves but against top teams i think we would be better playing 4 4 2 with torres and crouchie up top

they are a good partnership that could be great, two totally different threats for the defence to deal with and they have been successful this season when played together, i personally think crouch offers a different option to the team and is a valuable member of the squad

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Crouch and Torres up front together...didn't play competively up front together until 25th September 2007. Liverpool won that game 4-2 against Reading in the Carling Cup. Torres scored three times. Since then they've been played up front with each other against Marsielle, we lost 1-0, against Bolton which we won 4-0 (torres scoring 1) against Reading, we lost 3-1, against Luton which we won 5-0, against Sunderland in which we won 3-0 (torres and crouch scored).

So out of the six games those two have started up front together for us this season, we've won four games, scored 17 goals and between them Crouch and Torres have scored six of them and you're not impressed? With those two up front we're scoring nearly three a game and because defenders have to worry about both forwards it leaves much more space for Gerrard. 4-4-2 would easily work with these two up front.

Marsielle was a fluke result and the Reading game Benitez decided to accept defeat with half an hour to go. But in the other four games, these two up front have proven they can score, they can create chaces and openings for others to score and we usually win with these two up front. So how you're not convinced is beyond me.

[Thingy]

if we wanna play crouch AND torres we gotta go back to 4-4-2... and whenever I saw crouch and torres play together in our earlier games it didn't work... so yes it doesn't convince me

you don't remember Torres' hattrick against Reading in the league cup then?

Crouch causes havoc if nothing else. If you see a team with Torres and Kuyt, you know you only have to worry about Torres whereas with Torrs and Crouch you've both to worry about. We tried 4-4-2 and very few times did we see Crouch and Torres together up front.

Good point GBJH, when Kuyt plays they dont really think " oh god we will have too keep an eye on him" But when Torres and Crouch play its hard to deal with one of them never mind two.

[The Kid Torres]

Thought it was a really decent point today, and a thoroughly deserved point.

When I heard the team news I feared the worse I have to admit but we really played as a team this afternoon.

First of all, a big well done to Plessis. I thought he had a really good solid debut. He looked composed on the ball, didn't waste many passes and put in one or two strong challenges. I look forward to seeing more of this boy in the future.

I thought the back line was outstanding again, particulary Carragher but that's what you come to expect of him every week.

Peter Crouch deserved his goal and was a big threat for Arsenal all afternoon, especially in the first half. He's not everybody cup of cocoa but defenders simply don't quite know how to play him and I just hope he signs the new contract offered to him and he plays a big part (hopefully much bigger than this one) for us next season.

The only dissapointment was conceding from yet another set-piece, although both Adebayor and today's scorer Bendtner are extremely powerful in the air to be fair to them.

[NANNY RED]

Bit gutted with MOTD they didnt show a true reflection of the game made it look like it was all Arsenal which was not the case

[Reg]

Interesting comment in tomorrows Times that the Aresenal lads looked knackered.
I reckon physically and mentally we're above these guys- they've run out of gas.
+++

Arsenal held to draw by LiverpoolJonathan Northcroft, The Sunday Times
Stan Kroenke, the US sports mogul who has spent a year building a 12.19% stake in Arsenal, came to the Emirates stadium to watch his team for the first time. He must have been confused. Arsenal were supposed to still be chasing the title but were half-hearted and surrendered any lingering hopes of overhauling Chelsea and Manchester United.

The game was supposed to mean less to Liverpool but they pursued three points with greater verve and surety, and were unfortunate not to beat these opponents in London for the first time under Rafael Benitez. For the third time this season these sides shared a 1-1 draw. One big striker cancelled out another, Nicklas Bentdner equalising from a second-half set-piece after Peter Crouch, one of a poor game’s few passable performers, gave Liverpool a merited first-half lead.

Jamie Carragher was among the two or three others who did well and Benitez will need the defender at his totemic best when the teams reconvene at Anfield, for their third meeting in six days. If, in Tuesday evening’s Champions League quarter-final second leg, it is 1-1 yet again the tie will head towards the car crash of penalties. Should Carragher and company hold out for a clean sheet, however, Liverpool will be back in the last four of their favourite competition and Arsenal’s season will be over.

Twelve weeks ago they were chasing four trophies but after winning just two of their last 10 games it all comes down to the Champions League. Anfield on a European night is a hard enough for visitors in any circumstances but the pressure on Arsene Wenger’s young players will be remarkable. To win nothing having played so beautifully for swathes of the campaign would be a horror for Wenger and his squad and they would no doubt point that out to us all. However, there are no marks for artistic impression in football and Arsenal’s conquerors would be entitled to offer remarks similar to that made by Cesar Luis Menotti when the Argentina team he coached and not Brazil, who considered their play superior, won the 1978 World Cup. “We congratulate Brazil on their moral victory. Now we hope they will congratulate us on our actual victory,” Menotti said.

No injuries were incurred but Arsenal appeared the more low on energy and Wenger, doing Basil Fawlty routines in his technical area, seemed unusually frustrated with his players. “I kicked every ball because I felt there was room for us to win the game. We had two or three crosses from the left and we did not attack the ball. Of course if I had been on the pitch, I wouldn’t have scored either,” he smiled.

Having taken so many plaudits it is only right Wenger should receive a bit of criticism for his misjudgment this year. He is a wonderful finder of talent but has proved a less impressive constructor of a squad and spate of injuries has left responsibility weighing on the same young, tired sets of shoulders and legs, week-in, week-out. Nobody seemed to suffer more yesterday than Cesc Fabregas, mentally and physically exhausted, and Alex Hleb, despite being rested until a late substitute appearance, was also betrayed by fatigue, miscontrolling Bentdner’s flick-on when Arsenal had the chance to secure an unlikely victory with yet another of their stoppage-time goals.

Wenger also complained of a penalty that could have been awarded when Lucas tugged Fabregas but, in truth, it was Liverpool who should have scored the decisive goal at 1-1. Andriy Voronin, twice dismal in good positions, has never looked more like a plumber, and Fernando Torres couldn’t find Steven Gerrard on the break when a ball across goal would have set up his captain for a winner.

Minds turn to gambling on Grand National day and not even Wenger was exempt. He had said the league could still be won and he would go all out for victory without regard to Tuesday but in the event hedged his bets. Some, like Gael Clichy, Hleb and Emmanuel Adebayor, were substitutes while other key players started. Wenger’s convictions about the title were obviously not as strong as he’d proclaimed — mixed signals and selection led to a mixed performance.

Arsenal’s first half was as poor a 45 minutes as they have played all season, their 4-0 drubbing at Manchester United in the FA Cup apart, while Liverpool were surprisingly good. Benitez had seized the chance, for once, to rotate his squad with impunity and Damien Plessis, a 20-year-old Frenchman proved an assured debutant in central midfield.

Crouch was purposeful from the opening moments, when he spooked the Arsenal goalkeeper, Manuel Almunia, with a dangerous 35-yard drive, and soon he was feeding John Arne Riise with a gorgeous pass. Riise, not known for subtlety, and on his right foot, thrashed into the stand when he had a clear sight of goal. The look on Benitez’s face was of a señor who had just found a slug in his paella.

Yossi Benayoun was wasteful, spoiling good work from Lucas with an inconsequential touch that was neither cross nor shot but then Crouch won a flick-on and spun to take a pass from the Israeli before beating William Gallas and spanking a shot past Almunia from 20 yards. Emmanuel Eboue epitomised Arsenal’s malaise, unable to pick out Fabregas or the lively Theo Walcott after beating Liverpool’s offside trap.

Rather surprisingly, boos followed Wegner’s men down the tunnel at half-time and it took Bentnder’s goal to mollify denizens. As in Wednesday night’s Champions League first leg, Liverpool’s zonal marking was vulnerable against Arsenal’s set-pieces. There was warning for Jose Reina and his defence when Toure rose unimpeded to head a corner wide in the 48th minute and seven minutes later a Fabregas free kick brought punishment.

It was delivered nicely by the Arsenal talisman, bending into the six-yard area, but none of Benitez’s players challenged for it and Bentdner, with Crouch the culprit nearest the Dane, belied what had been a hitherto uncertain display of striking on his behalf to score with a confident header past the Spanish goalkeeper.

[redtrader74]

Wow 8 changes and for the most part, especially the first half, we managed to look fluid and cohesive, i thought that was impossible? Just goes to show the myth that it can ONLY be achieved by playing lots of games together, and the training sessions all week amount to nothing is in fact bollox. Another reminder for the Oh so negative fickle brotherhood who actually believe Rafa doesn't care about the league games, he brought on SG and Torres when it was 1-1, and at a stage when we were not really under the cosh, no need to do that unless ofcourse he felt like winning the game.

Well done Crouch, play like that, give your all in each game and you might just get picked more often, Arbeloa did well, as did Finnan, either of them should fill in the right back position for Tuesday, allowing Carra back into CB, because his lack of pace will be exposed again if he stays at RB. Good debut for Plessis, was neat and tidy, nothing spectacular, but did his job. Decent result given the situation, could have sealed a win in the first half with a bit more conviction.

[NANNY RED]

I thought Plessis was outstanding Red never put a foot wrong i thought hed be a bit overawed bein his debut an all but was well impresed with him.

Ive watched him a few times now when hes played for the rezzies and thought he was coming along nicely but i was a bit suprissed myself today when i found out hed got the nod to start, but he done a great job and fittted in well with the big boys

[Kharhaz]

I thought that was a better performance from the reds than on wednesday. They didnt look nervous, especially plessis and we just looked overall to have the measure of them, and that was with a rotated team ! I thought the ref was good also, a couple of challenges from plessis would normally be given a yellow but he had a word instead. Good performance all round.

[redtrader74]

I thought Plessis was outstanding Red never put a foot wrong i thought hed be a bit overawed bein his debut an all but was well impresed with him.

Ive watched him a few times now when hes played for the rezzies and thought he was coming along nicely but i was a bit suprissed myself today when i found out hed got the nod to start, but he done a great job and fittted in well with the big boys

I've seen bits and pieces of him on the reserve team games on LFCtv and he's looked good. I thought he was OK today, and did well, the most impressive thing for me was that he didn't look out of place. Encouraging start, needs to pack on a bit more muscle though for his type of player.

[Reg]

From tomorrow's Telegraph which has a very damning Arsenal commentary that they've basically imploded:

"Most painful of all for Arsenal fans was watching Cesc Fabregas, the brightest star in the Gunners' firmament when they were in their pomp in the early stages of the season, looking tired mentally and physically here, almost plodding across the Emirates' manicured turf as though he were back on the rutted surface of Wigan's JJB Stadium. Unless he can raise himself one last time for the second leg of the Champions League quarter-final against Liverpool on Tuesday, one fears for the Gunners.

In contrast, Liverpool are finding their best form at the fag-end of the season, as Liverpool's successful teams traditionally do. With Tuesday now representing the last chance for both teams to keep their season alive, both managers were forced to reshuffle their packs and this game proved that Liverpool had the better resources, their second-string starters more impressive than Arsenal's and, when they were eventually sent on, their big guns as well."