Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

It maybe that Rafa wants to play pass n move football but just doesnt have the players to do that, if you looked at the wide players Arsenal had last night, not household names but players with good technical abillity and comftable in possession of a football unfortunately Kuyt, Babel, Pennant and Benayoun are just not good enough if you want to play pass n move football

Hang on a second, if we dont have the players its because the gaffer prefered to buy others who play a different style of football. Lets not confuse the issue and say the manager or the club are innocent of their own actions, they´ve built and trained the current team to play as it does and being darn good in the CL therefore was their aim.

Maybe statistically its easier to win the CL than a long drawn out injury ridden and expensive league campaign? Maybe its more profitable, pound of expenditure against income? Maybe the club see it as the first objective to winning the league again, or... maybe the club as Shanks and Bob developed pass and run, they see it as the logical development of the english game and once we have a stronger squad and win the league (insh´allah) inevitably other clubs will have to play catch up and adopt our perfected methods.

I dont think its fair though to say we ´just dont have the players to do that´, we have the players we bought.

[Sabre]

A question here.

Yesterday I could watch those stats that appear in TV in which you can read how much distance they have run during the game.

I agreed yesterday it was not the best day of Alonso with LFC2007, he said "too static" and I agreed, that's what I saw at first glance.

Just for my surprise, I've read in AS today that Alonso was the Liverpool player that ran more distance in yesterday's game, I wouldn't have expected that to be honest. I don't have the data online, it was in paper sorry, let's see if  I find it.

But the question is, does that specific stat say something relevant about a player's game? IMHO running much is good sometimes, but running much other times means you were not were you should be and you have to correct your position (when you are countered for instance). So, what do you think of this stat?

[stmichael]

A question here.

Yesterday I could watch those stats that appear in TV in which you can read how much distance they have run during the game.

I agreed yesterday it was not the best day of Alonso with LFC2007, he said "too static" and I agreed, that's what I saw at first glance.

Just for my surprise, I've read in AS today that Alonso was the Liverpool player that ran more distance in yesterday's game, I wouldn't have expected that to be honest. I don't have the data online, it was in paper sorry, let's see if  I find it.

But the question is, does that specific stat say something relevant about a player's game? IMHO running much is good sometimes, but running much other times means you were not were you should be and you have to correct your position (when you are countered for instance). So, what do you think of this stat?

I thought he was poor again Sabre if I'm honest. I've been saying it for ages, but all he contributes to the team now is sideways and backwards passes. He's drifting. He doesn't create goals, doesn't score goals, and for all this "metres covered" doesn't protect the back four anywhere near as well as Macherano does.

[Igor Zidane]

A question here.

Yesterday I could watch those stats that appear in TV in which you can read how much distance they have run during the game.

I agreed yesterday it was not the best day of Alonso with LFC2007, he said "too static" and I agreed, that's what I saw at first glance.

Just for my surprise, I've read in AS today that Alonso was the Liverpool player that ran more distance in yesterday's game, I wouldn't have expected that to be honest. I don't have the data online, it was in paper sorry, let's see if  I find it.

But the question is, does that specific stat say something relevant about a player's game? IMHO running much is good sometimes, but running much other times means you were not were you should be and you have to correct your position (when you are countered for instance). So, what do you think of this stat?

It does help if you run sabre, otherwise your just vorinin.

[LFC2007]

You're right mate, he covered more ground than anyone in our team and only played 76 min's. I was surprised to read that stat tbh.

Perhaps it's because he, along with Mascherano bore the brunt of Arsenal's quick movement and passing? We were under siege for a while (esp. for a 20 minute period second half), and him and Mascherano were constantly having to screen our back four more than anyone else.

Keeping up with the fast movement of players such as Hleb, Adebayor, Walcott, Fabregas, V. Persie who all attacked through the centre of the pitch at some point would 've required some ground to be covered to keep up. They tried to stretch us and the effect of that is always greater in the middle more than anywhere else.

I'm not certain of the stat's of the others but I think Gerrard was second, and Kuyt third in terms of ground covered.

He appeared too static to me, but perhaps he was just labouring to get back and covered more ground as a consequence? Inefficent ground coverage you could call it. I know he was the first to miss Hleb when he burst through for that run second half, for example. I thought he was off the pace and didn;t do as well as Mascherano, but you probably would cover more ground if you're constantly trying to halt such pacey players, and aren't that pacey yourself. You'd be more inefficient naturally I think.

[Sabre]

You're probably right. Alonso is not fast and he has never been. He reached primera division unlike thousands of lads because he had the correct positioning and a good tackle. Never was the holding mid that corrects a position to run 3 metres and make a crunching sliding tackle. He reached primera because he was in the spot he should be.

And that's why I disliked him yesterday and against Manchester, in occasions like the one you describe at the end. And hence, I agreed he was below his standards.

As for Igor, of course, a minimum of running must exist, even the lazy Spaniards have learned that in their football (but make no mistake not that long ago )

[stmichael]

Alonso is not fast and he has never been. He reached primera division unlike thousands of lads because he had the correct positioning and a good tackle.

 

[NANNY RED]

because he had the correct positioning and a good tackle.

I dont know about that one Sabs ive always found Xabis positioning and tackle to be spot on 

[bigmick]

I read the "distance covered" thing as well and it was surprise to me too I must admit. I think the stat itself though does raise a couple of points.

Firstly, I have to say that I thought Alonso by and large did OK. Many people have made the point that we "didn't play a lot of football', "didn't keep the ball very well" but I think sometimes people expect too much. We were playing away against a top side and we were bang under the cosh for much of the game, no surprises that we never really painted any pretty patterns. Similar defensive cases can be put in on this occasion for Alonso lack of "hollywood" passing. It's not easy to hit someone with a fifty yard through ball when they're all stood behind you. No, I thought he did Ok and the criticism of him was a bit unjust.

Funnily enough, the fact that Alonso doesn't go piling into tackles masherano style means that he is sometimes not given the credit he deserves, and the same can probably be said in reverse for Kuyt's running. THIS IS NOT KUYT BASHING BTW CAN IJUST MAKE THAT CLEAR BEFORE I PROCEED ANY FURTHER. Hopefully that'll keep the forum militia off my back. Yes I was going to make the point that Kuyt has a tendency to chase causes even when they are long lost, from full back, chase the square ball to centre back, chase it to the next centre back and then turn and run fifty yards at full wack back to the oroginal full back. This can and does give the impression the bloke absolutely never stops, but is not necessarily a true indication, as the stats the other night would indicate.

[Sabre]

(For Nanny) I was thinking in Spanish there (we also use tackle). I meant tackling. I was admitting LFC2007's points that when you have a weakness (lack of pace) you have to compensate with other aspects of the game.

I  said instead something that makes no sense in english or with sexual meaning, as always

Good post from bigmick too. He's probably right when he talks about unnecessary runs in Kuyt, but that kind of runs are appreciated by the fans in a stadium, they're appreciated despite not very productive, because they show passion, and sometimes even expands that passion to some of the surrounding mates. It's like when you're sieged in a wing and your full back makes a crunching and aggresive tackle, it's a fúcking throw in against really,  but the crowd appreciates the manly action.

[Kharhaz]

Yes I was going to make the point that Kuyt has a tendency to chase causes even when they are long lost, from full back, chase the square ball to centre back, chase it to the next centre back and then turn and run fifty yards at full wack back to the oroginal full back.

This made me wonder, at this time of the morning seeing as im bored, but why is it that rafa instructs gerrard not to waste his energy by chasing lost causes yet kuyt is allowed to? Can gerrard match kuyt for stamina? for me yes he can, and he has. Just pondering like...

[LFC2007]

Firstly, I have to say that I thought Alonso by and large did OK. Many people have made the point that we "didn't play a lot of football', "didn't keep the ball very well" but I think sometimes people expect too much. We were playing away against a top side and we were bang under the cosh for much of the game, no surprises that we never really painted any pretty patterns. Similar defensive cases can be put in on this occasion for Alonso lack of "hollywood" passing. It's not easy to hit someone with a fifty yard through ball when they're all stood behind you. No, I thought he did Ok and the criticism of him was a bit unjust.

Funnily enough, the fact that Alonso doesn't go piling into tackles masherano style means that he is sometimes not given the credit he deserves, and the same can probably be said in reverse for Kuyt's running. THIS IS NOT KUYT BASHING BTW CAN IJUST MAKE THAT CLEAR BEFORE I PROCEED ANY FURTHER. Hopefully that'll keep the forum militia off my back. Yes I was going to make the point that Kuyt has a tendency to chase causes even when they are long lost, from full back, chase the square ball to centre back, chase it to the next centre back and then turn and run fifty yards at full wack back to the oroginal full back. This can and does give the impression the bloke absolutely never stops, but is not necessarily a true indication, as the stats the other night would indicate.

Aside from the Kuyt-bashing ( ) I agree with you, Alonso was OK, but stilll a little slow in anticipating the tackle, but then again he's never been too fast in that respect, and against Arsenal he was bound to appear more static, what with all their pace and quick movement.

His primary role in that game (given the tactics of it, and considering the opposition) was to screen the back four, and he was ok at it.

[NANNY RED]

(For Nanny) I was thinking in Spanish there (we also use tackle).

   Sabs your digging yourself deeper and deeper in to a hole

Im off to Madrid on 2nd May Sabs i might have to use some of your classic  tacling talk out there

[Emerald Red]

fantastic result for us, even kuyt played well (although one swallow does not make a summer)

Tell me the difference in Kuyts commitment in this game to any other that he's been playing in since Benitez employed him in this position in the new system. For me, he's been playing like this for a while. Is it just because he scored a goal in such a high stakes game that you give him praise?

Give it a rest, mate....
Just enjoy the result for now.


peewee's a big boy and he certainly doesn't need anyone to defend him but all this constant hounding is just getting old. He has his opinion and is not afraid of expressing them.... Whether or not you agree with him is your opinion.

Why on earth do you feel the need to track down every single post he makes and find fault with it? He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't....

For christ sakes...... we just had a good result against a difficult team who've handed us our @rses in the last two cup ties we've had with 'em and all we do is find fault with each other?

Sometimes I don't get what the hell is wrong with this place...

I've never hounded Peewee or contested him over anything apart from this one reply, really. This is just me asking the fella a question. Jesus, people are getting so touchy on here now.

[KOPMATT]

Well sorry to just jump in ere but, eventhough it was a very good result for us the performance especially 2nd half was Just IMO Dire! No other word for it really, we were very lucky to come away with a draw.