Liverpool FC Forum

by **The_Rock** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:47 am

bigmick wrote:I would actually be more concerned about our right side. As somebody alluded to earlier, Finnan got skinned a couple of times yesterday bb Ashley Young. It wouldn't exactly be a Sixth Sense style twist in the plot, were Steve Finnan not to look quite so reliable when he has Jermaine Pennant playing in front of him rather than Steven Gerrard.

I know pennant didn't have a good game...but I will not use that as an excuse to put gerrard on the RW.... Like i said earlier, he is our best player and we should build the team around him. And this translates to gerrard being played in his best postion....ie...CM

I supported the idea of gerrard playing RW 2 years ago when we let nunez go without buying a replacement RW. But now, we have babel, yossi and pennant who can play RW. There is no need to move gerrard there anymore.

I also find that if we don't have a capable LW , gerrard can be easily nullified when he plays RW. ie.....last season when auerlio, gonzales and riise played LW.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:29 am

The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:I would actually be more concerned about our right side. As somebody alluded to earlier, Finnan got skinned a couple of times yesterday bb Ashley Young. It wouldn't exactly be a Sixth Sense style twist in the plot, were Steve Finnan not to look quite so reliable when he has Jermaine Pennant playing in front of him rather than Steven Gerrard.

I know pennant didn't have a good game...but I will not use that as an excuse to put gerrard on the RW.... Like i said earlier, he is our best player and we should build the team around him. And this translates to gerrard being played in his best postion....ie...CM

I supported the idea of gerrard playing RW 2 years ago when we let nunez go without buying a replacement RW. But now, we have babel, yossi and pennant who can play RW. There is no need to move gerrard there anymore.

I also find that if we don't have a capable LW , gerrard can be easily nullified when he plays RW. ie.....last season when auerlio, gonzales and riise played LW.

I agree Rock, IMHO people who advocate Gerrard to be played on the right are completey wrong in their views. Either that or just to stubborn to say they've called it wrong.

by **aminz** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:56 am

Bamaga man wrote:
SuperTom wrote:Hi there. I'm new here, and I may only make a few contributions. I am a Villa fan and would just like to say that the fans of Liverpool yesterday were superb. Getting behind the team permanently is something i feel neccesary, and is also something that Villa do only away from home really. Also, on the 1935 from Aston back to New Street, there was some great banter coming from Liverpool fans, and I'm very dissapointed with the Villa fan's origingal reaction. Your song that goes on about 'campiones'? Is there a link to a video or any words I can find on the internet? Because I felt that was a very well thought out song, as they always are coming from a superb, and very special group of fans. On a final note. How good was Gerrard's Free Kick!?

Here you go Mate Longer footage

anybody got the lyrics..?? tq.... :bowdown

by **kunilson** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:44 am

ohhhhhh Campione,
the one and only,
we're liverpooool,
they say our days are numbered we're not famous anymore,
but scousers rule the country like we've always done before.

just saw the game last night and it wasn't the most consistant performance from us, but opening days never are....we played well enough and created good chances...our away support sounded fantastic too from what i could tell.

finnan did get caught out a couple of times, but im sure with more matches he'll settle down. i was happy with the understanding Kuyt and Torres showed together....torres can do it all pretty much and he just needs to keep at it. i was glad to see Kuyt get into some good positions further up the field too, and taking shots here and there from distance...
Babbel made an impressive cameo i thought, he looked lively and looked very quick on and off the ball...

Thought with that penalty it'd be "just our luck" again, but that freekick from gerrrard was amazing. pin-point......but he should apologise for scoring cos now we'll get called a one-man-team again..

nice one redmen! bring on toulouse, then the all-new attacking chelski

:laugh:

by **mattylfc** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:59 am

Nothing but pleased about the result.

I couldnt beleive it when the got a penalty at that stage of the game, all i could think was just our luck. Gerrard then stepped up with an unbelievable strike.

We did more than enough to win the game against a team who will definately take points off the top teams as the season goes on.

The only negative for me was the fact that we didnt kill the game off, fortunatley this time though we were not made to pay for it like we have done in the past.

Rafa made some very good decisions with regards to the sqaud, the fact that he didnt inlcude many of the new guys made real sense to me. Torres showed flashes of brilliance and Babel really impressed me in his short spell. The main thing i like about Babel is the fact that he is very direct, He only thinks about going forward and that is what we have missed imo.

Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U all struggled at home against weaker opposition so we have lots of positives to take from this weekend. Only disappointing thing for me was the fact that Crouch wasnt in the squad. I assume its because he will be starting on wednesday. Just hope he keeps his chin up!

Well done lads.

by **squeek** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:07 am

Bamaga man wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:I would actually be more concerned about our right side. As somebody alluded to earlier, Finnan got skinned a couple of times yesterday bb Ashley Young. It wouldn't exactly be a Sixth Sense style twist in the plot, were Steve Finnan not to look quite so reliable when he has Jermaine Pennant playing in front of him rather than Steven Gerrard.

I know pennant didn't have a good game...but I will not use that as an excuse to put gerrard on the RW.... Like i said earlier, he is our best player and we should build the team around him. And this translates to gerrard being played in his best postion....ie...CM

I supported the idea of gerrard playing RW 2 years ago when we let nunez go without buying a replacement RW. But now, we have babel, yossi and pennant who can play RW. There is no need to move gerrard there anymore.

I also find that if we don't have a capable LW , gerrard can be easily nullified when he plays RW. ie.....last season when auerlio, gonzales and riise played LW.

I agree Rock, IMHO people who advocate Gerrard to be played on the right are completey wrong in their views. Either that or just to stubborn to say they've called it wrong.

I think Gerrard was far better used on the right in the past 2 seasons due to lack of depth in that position, and Pennant taking a few months to adjust to life at Liverpool.

This season, with Pennant fairly established, and several other options available on the right, Gerrard is perhaps best suited for the team in the middle, especially in the Premiership.

Basically, Gerrard playing on the right was bang on in the past, but is perhaps not necessary now given other options.

Gerrard was also a bit of liability defensively in the center in Benitez's first few seasons. I am however impressed with his development and maturity now, and he is playing the central midfield position now with increased tactical awareness.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:16 am

squeek wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:I would actually be more concerned about our right side. As somebody alluded to earlier, Finnan got skinned a couple of times yesterday bb Ashley Young. It wouldn't exactly be a Sixth Sense style twist in the plot, were Steve Finnan not to look quite so reliable when he has Jermaine Pennant playing in front of him rather than Steven Gerrard.

I know pennant didn't have a good game...but I will not use that as an excuse to put gerrard on the RW.... Like i said earlier, he is our best player and we should build the team around him. And this translates to gerrard being played in his best postion....ie...CM

I supported the idea of gerrard playing RW 2 years ago when we let nunez go without buying a replacement RW. But now, we have babel, yossi and pennant who can play RW. There is no need to move gerrard there anymore.

I also find that if we don't have a capable LW , gerrard can be easily nullified when he plays RW. ie.....last season when auerlio, gonzales and riise played LW.

I agree Rock, IMHO people who advocate Gerrard to be played on the right are completey wrong in their views. Either that or just to stubborn to say they've called it wrong.

I think Gerrard was far better used on the right in the past 2 seasons due to lack of depth in that position, and Pennant taking a few months to adjust to life at Liverpool.

This season, with Pennant fairly established, and several other options available on the right, Gerrard is perhaps best suited for the team in the middle, especially in the Premiership.

Basically, Gerrard playing on the right was bang on in the past, but is perhaps not necessary now given other options.

Gerrard was also a bit of liability defensively in the center in Benitez's first few seasons. I am however impressed with his development and maturity now, and he is playing the central midfield position now with increased tactical awareness.

Sorry mate I just dont agree.

by **stmichael** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:22 am

That game shows we've got a set of balls. It's not very often we've recovered from a blow like that so quickly and so emphatically. We've had to get ourselves back in the game there with no time left at all. It was a very, very good result for us to get full stop, let alone after being pegged back so undeservedly.

I am slightly concerned that we were hanging on at the end when we should have steamrollered them but the sharpness is going to come. Villa are whinging about the refereeing at the end. It was a foul. It just is! It was a bodycheck and he left the leg stuck out. I don't care what that bespectacled idiotic leprachaun is spouting, it's a foul. And it was great to see it fly into the top corner like that as well.

It was no more than we deserved after total dominance for 90 minutes. Villa are seriously poor and they are going to be mid table mediocrity again in my view. I hope so anyway. I can't stand Martin O'Neill. Aided by the hapless Petrov, we took a stranglehold on the game from about the 15 minute mark and we ran them ragged all the way up until half time. Torres should have scored but at least we didn't regret it. He looked sharp enough. The goals will come. Kuyt did well to get back in there and Laursen rifled it in. No idea what he was thinking, but I'll get over it.

The second half was more even but we did well enough to cope with the pressure Villa exerted. Carra defended brilliantly - I don't care if he gave the penalty away, his defending was top notch and he was my man of the match. Only Young looked like he would give problems and we had our hands full.

Babel came on for Pennant (before he got sent off!) and looked very, very dangerous with a mixture of pace, strength and a direct attitude. I've had my doubts about him so far. I was very impressed today, I thought he was excellent when he came on.

The Villa goal was a penalty - no arguments from me. It's unfortunate but it's a penalty. It sums Villa up really - scrappy and fortunate. That nasty diver Barry, who I now have no respect for, slotted it away and it looked like another 2 points dropped against an abject team, but thankfully Gerrard pulled it out the hat.

It wasn't always great but it's a win and we needed that badly. On to Toulouse, where we need a good strong performance.

by **red37** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:27 am

Babel came on for Pennant (before he got sent off!) and looked very, very dangerous with a mixture of pace, strength and a direct attitude. I've had my doubts about him so far. I was very impressed today, I thought he was excellent when he came on.

I was pleasantly surprised with Babel's input. Particularly his willingness to 'shoot on sight' - something we can well do with in an attacking line that seems to want to overplay a little bit too much around the edge of the box...good to see.

by **squeek** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:13 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:Sorry mate I just dont agree.

I don't think you have to.

However, which part don't you agree with? Do you think Gerrard, in the past, should never have played on the right, or that playing on the right in the current team is wrong for him?

by **red37** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:25 pm

RAFA EXPLAINS VILLA SELECTION
Jimmy Rice 13 August 2007

Rafa Benitez has explained the reason he started just one of his new signings on the opening day of the season.
Fernando Torres was the only newboy in the starting XI at Villa Park, though both Ryan Babel and Andriy Voronin came off the bench in the later stages.

Benitez explained: "The idea was to start the season with players who had experience of the Premier League.

"If you bring in a lot of new players and you start playing with them then you don't know if they will settle in.

"I wanted players with experience to approach this game with the character that was needed but I could bring on the new players if needed."

***********************************************

Say's it all really. Lets hope the stability can continue and lead up to a good head of steam. I don't think we will see the same Rafa as last year as often..he has better personnel at his disposal, sure. But i think he is focussed on the League title push this time round above all else. Nice to hear too.

by **tubby** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:40 pm

Indeed. We have the good start we wanted. Now we need to continue that one game at a time. Next Sunday will be a real opportunity to take points of Chelsea.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:44 pm

squeek wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:Sorry mate I just dont agree.

I don't think you have to.

However, which part don't you agree with? Do you think Gerrard, in the past, should never have played on the right, or that playing on the right in the current team is wrong for him?

Well firstly this is an age old debate around these boards, so I'll try not to bore you or any others too much again with it.

Secondly I think Gerrards best position is in the middle of the park. Maybe it was for the better of the team he played on the right side the season before last, I cant argue with that really.

But last season Rafa started him off there again, and it simply wasnt working for him or the team. Our form and points never picked up until Rafa saw the light and put Gerrard back to his favoured position. People will point to the coincedence of the fixtures when we did pick up points, but IMO Gerrard showed us glimpses of what we missed in the middle earlier on in the season.

I dont agree with you about Gerrards defensive capabilities in the middle. He is an all round box to box midfielder and is able to play both ways. I could turn the arguement around on his partner in the middle and say that Xabi didnt offer us enough going forward, he didnt advance and play closer to Gerrard when the team pushed up. He is much more static in his positional play than Gerrard, leaving Gerrard the task to help out the forwards more. I'd say Gerrard helps out Xabi more so in his defensive duties than the Spaniard does in helping Gerrard out in attack.
I think this is where this fallacy of Gerrard not being able to do his defensive duties comes from.

Ontop of all that Gerrard is our only player from the midfield who at any time can produce a piece of magic and turning it into an end product. To do this I feel he needs to play central where the game is played through him, and he can drive the team on and spark something from almost nothing, plus as I said before being in the engine room suits him and brings out the aggressor in him, when tackling, like the Stevie of old.

Out wide he can often become isolated and teams like Chelsea lick their lips when his name is in the team sheet out wide. Like they did in the CL semi at Stamford bridge they can not only mark him out the game and double up on him. But cut off his supply of the ball, when he then eventually goes looking for it. We end up loosing our shape and width because of this and on top of that Finnan becomes isolated and is easy pickings for their fullbacks and wingers alike. Also when Gerrards roaming Finnan often has no outlet when in possession and the ball either goes back or inside, not forward as such.

For me the team ticks when Gerrard does, and when he ticks its usually in the middle.

by **stmichael** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:09 pm

red37 wrote:
Babel came on for Pennant (before he got sent off!) and looked very, very dangerous with a mixture of pace, strength and a direct attitude. I've had my doubts about him so far. I was very impressed today, I thought he was excellent when he came on.

I was pleasantly surprised with Babel's input. Particularly his willingness to 'shoot on sight' - something we can well do with in an attacking line that seems to want to overplay a little bit too much around the edge of the box...good to see.

he'd be a better option than riise on the left next sunday that's for sure. chelsea are struggling defensively at the moment and as much as i like riise, he won't cause glen johnson half the problems that babel will.

by **squeek** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:24 pm

Some fair points made but I would disagree about Gerrard "always" being more than capable in the middle. Gerrard's athleticism has long masked tactical naivety, particularly defensively, where he used to leave massive gaps in central midfield in his forward forays. Alonso was never a defensive or holding midfielder in the classic Mascherano/Hamann mould, but more of a deep lying playmaker similar to Pirlo, or I suppose Carrick. Xabi's tackling has improved but his passing and positioning are his major strengths.

Most of Gerrard's Liverpool career in central midfield was alongside Hamann. This gave Gerrard a lot of scope to move forward, and Didi's defensive prowess, as well as Houllier's general defensive stance worked for Gerrard at that time. Under Benitez, and with Didi not playing alongside him as often as Alonso, Gerrard's defensive shortcomings (largely tactical/positional) were often exposed.

I agree that Gerrard wants to play in the middle. He has never been best pleased on the right, but he was given a free reign out there also, and in the 05/06 season consistently popped up centrally in an attacking position. His role that season I see a bit like Ronaldinho or Nedved, nominally starting wide (in their case on the left of Barca and Juve) but given the license to roam infield.

Gerrard has improved the tactical part of his game very impressively in the last 6-9 months. He rarely goes for the long raking pass, and holds onto possession, he's quick to get back in position defensively and doesn't merely run after the ball carrier and he times his runs forward far better.

I think basically we're saying the same thing - that Gerrard is playing well in central midfield at the moment. We just disagree a bit on whether he was best suited there in the past.

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