Liverpool FC Forum

[LegBarnes]

For me ever time we got to half way line there was no pass on for alonso or masch , this for me was prime reason we did nothing in this game.

Thats precisley why neither should be paired together, as Alonsos' ONLY positive attribute going foward is his vision and passing. If neither of them are on, which they're not going to be all the time, hes not going to carry the ball take a man on and open the play up another way. He isnt going to get in the box ala Gerrard and pop up with a goal, neither he OR Mascha are game breakers and can force something to happen.

Maybe the movement upfront could be better for him, but unless he can pick a pass out, were pretty much f.ucked centrally from that position.

Even more worrying is the wide players, again neither Kuyt nor Lucas are able to take a man on and  just simply look to lay it off. We get nowhere fast and the tempo is to slow, there isnt the movement or instinct from either Lucas or Kuyt to get in behind his man and open up a defence. Plus Keane also isnt going to do the damage sitting out on the  left too.

On a bright note I thought Dossena pinged in a few crosses and looked willing and able to get forward, I think that was his best performance for us so far. At times he looked clumbsy while defending against Ashley Young I think it was, but he looked brighter in the final third than any of our midfielders did, that was encoraging at least.

Yes thank the lord some one had the insight to see dossy had a good game and had nice bright crosses.

Thank you you give me new hope in this thread.

[66-1112520797]

For me ever time we got to half way line there was no pass on for alonso or masch , this for me was prime reason we did nothing in this game.

Thats precisley why neither should be paired together, as Alonsos' ONLY positive attribute going foward is his vision and passing. If neither of them are on, which they're not going to be all the time, hes not going to carry the ball take a man on and open the play up another way. He isnt going to get in the box ala Gerrard and pop up with a goal, neither he OR Mascha are game breakers and can force something to happen.

Maybe the movement upfront could be better for him, but unless he can pick a pass out, were pretty much f.ucked centrally from that position.

Even more worrying is the wide players, again neither Kuyt nor Lucas are able to take a man on and  just simply look to lay it off. We get nowhere fast and the tempo is to slow, there isnt the movement or instinct from either Lucas or Kuyt to get in behind his man and open up a defence. Plus Keane also isnt going to do the damage sitting out on the  left too.

On a bright note I thought Dossena pinged in a few crosses and looked willing and able to get forward, I think that was his best performance for us so far. At times he looked clumbsy while defending against Ashley Young I think it was, but he looked brighter in the final third than any of our midfielders did, that was encoraging at least.

Yes thank the lord some one had the insight to see dossy had a good game and had nice bright crosses.

Thank you you give me new hope in this thread.

It was an honest call mate.

He was bright and was willing to get to the by-line on certain occassions. He was doing what our wingers should be doing.

Him and Carra were our two best players followed by Mascha yesterday. If we can ever get a decent Left midfielder and Dossena can produce or kick on from what he showed us yesterday, there could be a decent combo down the left.

I dont know too much about Riera, but maybe if we sign him, Dossena and this Spanish fella could get the job done out there on the left.

Arbeloa has been a bit dissapointing for me, a good player. But he doesnt seem to be helping out Kuyt enough on the overlaps. Last season or was it the season before he showed some promise with Pennant and the two linked up well and Arbeloa was getting into some great positions, but its not happening this time around, and this is another reason we're lacking in the width department IMO.

[stmichael]

I hate to say it, but yesterday once again highlighted the difference between us and the Mancs for me. There's been games when they have played really poorly and have been lucky to still be level. They then take off a defensive player and introduce an attacking one which leads to a goal and three points. People then say it's lucky, even though it blatantly isn't.

Yesterday, at 0-0 in a game we played poorly in, we took off a striker and replaced him with a defender who then played in midfield. That's the difference for me.

[LegBarnes]

For me ever time we got to half way line there was no pass on for alonso or masch , this for me was prime reason we did nothing in this game.

Thats precisley why neither should be paired together, as Alonsos' ONLY positive attribute going foward is his vision and passing. If neither of them are on, which they're not going to be all the time, hes not going to carry the ball take a man on and open the play up another way. He isnt going to get in the box ala Gerrard and pop up with a goal, neither he OR Mascha are game breakers and can force something to happen.

Maybe the movement upfront could be better for him, but unless he can pick a pass out, were pretty much f.ucked centrally from that position.

Even more worrying is the wide players, again neither Kuyt nor Lucas are able to take a man on and  just simply look to lay it off. We get nowhere fast and the tempo is to slow, there isnt the movement or instinct from either Lucas or Kuyt to get in behind his man and open up a defence. Plus Keane also isnt going to do the damage sitting out on the  left too.

On a bright note I thought Dossena pinged in a few crosses and looked willing and able to get forward, I think that was his best performance for us so far. At times he looked clumbsy while defending against Ashley Young I think it was, but he looked brighter in the final third than any of our midfielders did, that was encoraging at least.

Yes thank the lord some one had the insight to see dossy had a good game and had nice bright crosses.

Thank you you give me new hope in this thread.

It was an honest call mate.

He was bright and was willing to get to the by-line on certain occassions. He was doing what our wingers should be doing.

Him and Carra were our two best players followed by Mascha yesterday. If we can ever get a decent Left midfielder and Dossena can produce or kick on from what he showed us yesterday, there could be a decent combo down the left.

I dont much about Riera, but maybe if we sign him, Dossena and this Spanish fella got get the job done out there on the left.

Arbeloa has been a bit dissapointing for me, a good player. But he doesnt seem to be helping out Kuyt enough on the overlaps. Last season or was it the season before he showed some promise with Pennant and the two linked up well and Arbeloa was getting into some great positions, but its not happening this time around, and this is another reason we're lacking in the width department IMO.

I like to see Rafa give Dossy a free role as left winger i like to see how he handles just a full attacking role down left and play Aurelio left back.

I heard some where he has played wide left midfield before and well and i seen few goals from him on utube a striker would be proud of.

[66-1112520797]

I like to see Rafa give Dossy a free role as left winger i like to see how he handles just a full attacking role down left and play Aurelio left back.

I heard some where he has played wide left midfield before and well and i seen few goals from him on utube a striker would be proud of.

That actually may not be a bad shout.

[LegBarnes]

I hate to say it, but yesterday once again highlighted the difference between us and the Mancs for me. There's been games when they have played really poorly and have been lucky to still be level. They then take off a defensive player and introduce an attacking one which leads to a goal and three points. People then say it's lucky, even though it blatantly isn't.

Yesterday, at 0-0 in a game we played poorly in, we took off a striker and replaced him with a defender who then played in midfield. That's the difference for me.

Yes agree all the happy clappers that defend rafa tell us all to be positive about the team.

Yet Rafa isn't with the team so the happy clappers are just screwing them selfs over and sound even more rediculus.

[LegBarnes]

SO a team setup like this


                   Reina

   Arbeloa    Carra    Agger     Aurelio


                Mascherano

Babel        Alonso/gerrard        Dossena


             Keane
                      Torres/Ngog

Alonso/gerrard is gerrard is ok to play
Same with Torres/Ngog or mabye Kuyt.

[stmichael]

Also, if people cant see the difference in quality between Alonso and Barry after yesterday's game then they are blind. There's no comparison.

[66-1112520797]

Also, if people cant see the difference in quality between Alonso and Barry after yesterday's game then they are blind. There's no comparison.

Elaborate Mike please ?

[stmichael]

Also, if people cant see the difference in quality between Alonso and Barry after yesterday's game then they are blind. There's no comparison.

Elaborate Mike please ?

I thought Barry was useless yesterday. Alonso had a far better game. We retained possession with ease for most of the match, mostly because of him, he was very good defensively too, despite getting overshadowed by Mascherano at times. Ok he's still nowhere near his brilliant best but there were flashes. But for a wicked deflection he probably would have scored in the second half.

Hell he even managed a few good corners for us for a change.

[LegBarnes]

Also, if people cant see the difference in quality between Alonso and Barry after yesterday's game then they are blind. There's no comparison.

Elaborate Mike please ?

I thought Barry was useless yesterday. Alonso had a far better game. We retained possession with ease for most of the match, mostly because of him, he was very good defensively too, despite getting overshadowed by Mascherano at times. Ok he's still nowhere near his brilliant best but there were flashes. But for a wicked deflection he probably would have scored in the second half.

Hell he even managed a few good corners for us for a change.

But for me barry didn'y look happy to be playing for villa at times he looked like he would rather be with us.

At times he even kindly gave us the ball with careless passes.

[bunglemark2]

I think Alonso DID have a good game, in the context of a pretty lousy performance all round it has to be said. Wish I knew what the reason for Rafa and Alonso falling out was.....and I wish they'd sort it out. I think if Alonso felt that the manager wanted to keep him, you'd see this lad back to his very, very best....And I also agree he is miles better than Barry, who as they say was "cack" yesterday..

[King Carra]

I don't get some fans on here... seriously, you expect too much. Whatever you might think we're no way near as good as Man Utd and Chelsea, and you need to come back down to reality.

We BOSSED the game against Villa. Our defence was rock solid. Villa have one of the best attacking teams in the PL and Skrtel and Carragher had them sorted all game. The problem was we lacked imagination on midfield. That might be why Yossi came on. It's something we need to sort out, but it's something that CAN be sorted out pretty easily. It's not like we're defending like shyte and have no hope. Maybe we should have got 3 points, but we didn't. We didn't deserve them - no shots on target, speaks for itself.

People need to stop living in a bubble. 7 out of 9 aint bad. We're undefeated and have gone to two tough away grounds already. We have an international break now, which is a very good thing imo. It gives Rafa 10 days or so to look back over our past games and see where we've gone wrong and how we can improve and get the passing movement flowing again.

bossed the game?  We created nothing

Yeah exactly. We couldn't create anything, that was our whole problem. But we completely controlled the game. Never really did Villa ever look like breaking through our defence, expect for the odd set piece. Now I know we didn't create anything either, but that's besides the point. Point is we controlled the game.

Now our problem is obviously on the wings. We're too narrow. It's not good. But also, what do people expect when you start up with a 4-5-1 formation?! It's the most awful and boring formation in the game, and when you set up with that formation, to me it's clear that you'd take a point from the game, and anything more is a bonus.

I think Rafa screwed up his tactics tbh. He tried to out-number Villa in midfield (which he did do) but it led us to having no ideas with what to do with the ball whenever we got it as there was on Nando up front, and no-one else was making the runs.

[LFC2007]

Fairly sound defensively, completely inadequate in attack.

Keane played a Joe Cole role for the first half hour, slotting in on the left when in out of possession and occasionally drifting to the centre when in possession, he looked totally lost. It didn't work as his attributes are in no way conducive to that type of role. I thought the decision to play Keane in this role was based on Rafa feeling the need to accommodate Lucas, rather than the value of Keane in a left sided role. He wanted to choke the game and hit them on the break, and had Benayoun or Babel started I thought Keane would've had to have started central.

After Torres went off, our chances of getting anything other than a point diminished significantly and from that point on I didn't have a problem with our so called 'lack of ambition'. If you don't have the players to take the game to the opposition, there's little point in risking a loss in attempting to do so.

Alonso & Mascherano put in fairly solid performances, and I can't fault either for a lack of ideas or creativity as they simply didn't have the options. You can only be as good as the players around you permit you to be, and if our full backs don't get forward at the right times, and if we have a player in Ngog who has as much use as a superlambanana, you're inevitably going to be severely limited in what you can do.

I thought Carragher was solid, Skrtel a bit dodgy, Arbeloa mediocre, and Dossena just OK; he failed to recover on two occasions when Reo Coker got ahead of him, and he didn't get forward on a number of occasions when the opportunity arose. He put in one very good cross, and one good cross/shot, but that's nowhere near enough.

I thought Lucas offered nothing, save for one decent defensive header.

I thought Villa looked the more likely to score, either from a set piece, cross, knock down, or after turning one of our defenders. Carew had the best chance of the game in the first half for me, I'm not sure who specifically was to blame on our part, but we failed to track him, and Young should never have got in that position in the first place for the cut back. Arbeloa should've tackled him earlier or made sure he was forced wide.

The subs were a bit strange, Babel could've come on instead of Ngog, or later in place of Lucas, but I don't think it'd have made that much of a difference, he hasn't looked up for it and hasn't looked good enough anyway.

Overall, disappointing because we offered nothing in attack again. A good number of our players wouldn't look out of place in a Sunderland XI based on recent performances. Positives, a clean sheet and a point away to the main contender for fifth position.

[Rush Job]

Fairly sound defensively, completely inadequate in attack.

Keane played a Joe Cole role for the first half hour, slotting in on the left when in out of possession and occasionally drifting to the centre when in possession, he looked totally lost. It didn't work as his attributes are in no way conducive to that type of role. I thought the decision to play Keane in this role was based on Rafa feeling the need to accommodate Lucas, rather than the value of Keane in a left sided role. He wanted to choke the game and hit them on the break, and had Benayoun or Babel started I thought Keane would've had to have started central.

After Torres went off, our chances of getting anything other than a point diminished significantly and from that point on I didn't have a problem with our so called 'lack of ambition'. If you don't have the players to take the game to the opposition, there's little point in risking a loss in attempting to do so.

Alonso & Mascherano put in fairly solid performances, and I can't fault either for a lack of ideas or creativity as they simply didn't have the options. You can only be as good as the players around you permit you to be, and if our full backs don't get forward at the right times, and if we have a player in Ngog who has as much use as a superlambanana, you're inevitably going to be severely limited in what you can do.

I thought Carragher was solid, Skrtel a bit dodgy, Arbeloa mediocre, and Dossena just OK; he failed to recover on two occasions when Reo Coker got ahead of him, and he didn't get forward on a number of occasions when the opportunity arose. He put in one very good cross, and one good cross/shot, but that's nowhere near enough.

I thought Lucas offered nothing, save for one decent defensive header.

I thought Villa looked the more likely to score, either from a set piece, cross, knock down, or after turning one of our defenders. Carew had the best chance of the game in the first half for me, I'm not sure who specifically was to blame on our part, but we failed to track him, and Young should never have got in that position in the first place for the cut back. Arbeloa should've tackled him earlier or made sure he was forced wide.

The subs were a bit strange, Babel could've come on instead of Ngog, or later in place of Lucas, but I don't think it'd have made that much of a difference, he hasn't looked up for it and hasn't looked good enough anyway.

Overall, disappointing because we offered nothing in attack again. A good number of our players wouldn't look out of place in a Sunderland XI based on recent performances. Positives, a clean sheet and a point away to the main contender for fifth position.

Yup cant find anything i`d even slightly disagree with there.
What i will add is Arbeloa has looked all over the place so far in defence and pretty much useless in attack.
I`d obviously keep him in agaist the mancs but another clueless display and i`d seriously consider putting Darby in with SG in front.