ASTON VILLA VS LIVERPOOL - 31-08-08

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Rush Job » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:02 am

heimdall wrote:OK so please tell me what there is with the performances so far this season that you feel optimistic about?

How about the fact we have played ding but still won or at least got a half decent result when in previous years we would already be about 4 points off the top.
If you believe our performances arent going to get any better then fair enough but i believe they will and if this is our bad spell we havent done too bad in terms of points so why would i want to join you in suicide ally?
As for Kuyt, personally i`d try SG there again but as he was unfit today i would have went with Kuyt as well.
And as for winning the league, i never thought we would win it this season, even though one away draw with the best of the rest hardly puts us out of it.
I do expect us to be closer especially if we can pick up 7 points (no ones done better) from 1 home 2 away when we are not playing to the standard we ALL know we can.
So in short dry your eyes.
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Postby ruskiy playmaker » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:05 am

^Why would someone spend half a day typing that up?
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:09 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Effes wrote:A good post on RAWK:

"I'm just going to throw this out there.......

... and say we haven't addressed our problems over the close season. At all.

We haven't had a genuine winger since McManaman - I know it, you know it, in fact there's probably people in Siberia who know it.

Now then, playing narrow in the midfield is acceptable if you have two quality, attacking full-backs, who are quick enough and good enough to bomb up and down the pitch for 90 minutes, twice a week. We don't have that. We don't have a Clichy - Sagna/Eboue combination. In fact, we don't even have an Evra - Neville, where one will push forward at every given opportunity and provide overlapping quality, whilst the other can put in a very good cross from almost anywhere in the opponents half. What we have instead is Dossena, who is willing to push forward but doesn't appear to cross a ball that well, and Arbeloa. When Arbeloa signed, I was confused - we had Finnan on the right who was doing Neville's job - putting in good crosses on a regular basis. Arbeloa was shifted to left back, and on the back of keeping Messi in a straightjacket at the Camp Nou, excelled there for a while. He looked adventurous, quick, and generally like a ball-playing, attacking full-back.

I don't know what's happened since those first few months, but his confidence seems to be completely drained - the amount of times he has space in front of him, or is in a good crossing position, only for him to turn back inside and play the safe option is hugely frustrating. With Finnan apparently resigned to the bench or available for a transfer, that makes Arbeloa our first-choice right-back. If that had have been the case after his first few months here then I'd have no problem with it whatsoever, but at the moment he's playing well within himself and that doesn't help anybody.

Going back to the midfield, and the lack of width - it's been our biggest problem for as long as I can remember, and we've not even come close to solving it over the past 5 years. We don't have anybody willing to beat a man on the outside and put a cross in. None of Benayoun, Babel, Aurelio, Kuyt, Gerrard or El Zhar are wingers, yet they're the guys filling our wide positions. Pennant is probably the closest we've got, but for whatever reasons he always seems to lack confidence - we know he can beat people and put a half-decent cross in, he just never does.

Today we started with two centre forwards out on the wings - and say what you like about Keane and Kuyt being 'versatile, clever, willing to play anywhere for the team', but they are both strikers. It's as simple as that. Neither of them are rapid, neither are fantastic at beating their man in a 1v1 situation, neither of them are great crossers of the ball. Yet today, they're expected to do the job of a winger. Confused yet? I certainly am. It's starting to feel like the good old days of having Heskey as a defensive centre-forward, playing out on the left hand side of a midfield of Murphy, Gerrard, Hamann, and McAllister - and it's frustrating to see. I don't want to get too deep into the Robbie Keane thing, firstly because it's a whole new can of worms, and secondly because I'm not quite sure why we actually signed him. But that's a completely different discussion.

Apparently the Riera deal is close to being finalised. I don't know much about the lad at all, so all I'm hoping for is that he is prepared to run down the outside of a full-back and put crosses in from the byline on a regular basis. We can but hope.

So moving on from the complete lack of width from both the defence and midfield, we are left with two problems that have been the cornerstone of the Benitez era - a complete lack of atacking fluidity and a dreadful approach to set-pieces.

Under Benitez, we've had two players capable of playing the old no10 role - Luis Garcia and Yossi Benayoun. Luis was fantastically frustrating, capable of both the sublime and the ridiculous, and Yossi isn't far short. The thing is though, they're both victims of a system that just doesn't suit them. Last year we had untold success with Gerrard playing behind Torres - the first time we've really tried the one-up-top with a supporting attacker free to roam. That position is made for players like Benayoun and Luis Garcia, but instead, too often they're asked to try and be wingers. It doesn't work. Yossi can change a game from the centre of the field, if you give him the ball. He's a clever player with an eye for a pass, but his crossing is woeful. I cringe whenever I see him line up out wide - we may as well play with 10 men, as he just isn't a threat. The game just passes him by. He needs to be in that free role that Gerrard utilised so brilliantly last season, floating around and going wherever he likes. The problem with that is, now we've switched back to a 4-4-2, there is no free role.

With no free role, and a flat midfield four, comes defensive solidity. With defensive solidity rarely comes free-flowing attacking play. Our squad as a whole isn't quick enough to play a counter-attacking game, so we need to attack as a unit. When we play 4-4-2, the two central midfielders are defensive, even when Gerrard plays there. He spends more time in the centre circle than around the opposition box, which is no use to anyone as he's one of the best attacking midfielders in the world. So we have a four-man midfield, two of whom are playing as anchors, and the other two - who are now relied upon to provied creativity from the wings - who are either centre forwards, central midfielders, or full-backs being asked to play out wide. It's no wonder the team is so static. Today we started with two forwards out wide, who both naturally do their best work in and around the edge of the penalty area, and finished the game with a full-back and a central attacker out there. So, for the whole game today, we didn't have a single player at any given time who is naturally used to playing out wide - so more often than not, the team is static and moves break down.

I don't see why we've gone from the Gerrard-Torres through-the-middle combination that worked so well last year, back to a rigid 4-4-2, when we clearly don't have enough quality going forwards for it to work (or rather, I do see why we've changed, it's the Robbie Keane thing, but like I said that's a whole new discussion). The team is still too static, nobody moves to show for the ball, and there just aren't enough options and runners when Gerrard and Alonso pick up the ball in the middle of the park.

Is it starting to remind you of the Houllier era at all yet? Now don't get me wrong - I completely admire Rafa Benitez, and wouldn't want anybody else at all running the club, but I'd like to see more attacking gusto from him. Bringing on a full-back when we're after a goal isn't going to work. Playing said full-back on the wing certainly isn't. We've seen it over the past few years with Riise, I hope we don't start to see it as often with Aurelio too.

Talking of Fabio Aurelio, when he signed he was rumoured to have an immense left peg and a venomous free kick. What a crock of rubbish. Nobody at Liverpool Football Club has been able to strike a decent dead ball since the days of Berger and Redknapp. Hamann was a danger to whoever was in the wall, Riise was a danger to whoever was in row 32, and Gerrard's going to be in danger himself if he keeps taking free-kicks that haven't been teed up for him first. He's great at striking a moving ball, but striking direct free-kicks and corners? Give it up, you can't do it. Neither can Alonso, neither, apparently, can Aurelio. But that's OK, at least in terms of the corners - because we only have one player capable of attacking the ball in the air anyway. Step forward Mr Sami Hyypia. Take a bow. You can attack headers well. Messrs Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard, Plessis, and also previously Crouch... go and watch videos of Sami. See how he starts at the edge of the box, then runs towards the goal? See how he jumps? See how he heads the top of the ball so it doesn't go flying over the crossbar? Good. Now, you go and try it. Please. Pretty please.

I'm not sure if the set-piece thing is down to the players or the coaching staff - players should surely be tought where to stand for a corner, who runs where, and where the delivery should go. It really isn't hard. That's why it's so frustrating to see a group of three or four players, all 6' tall, standing under the ball when it's crossed in from a set piece, watching it get cleared by a defender who's attacked it. It really is schoolboy stuff, and something which should've been addressed many, many years ago, but for some reason has been ignored.

The last sentence above, is the important one. We all know what our problems have been recently - no movement, no width, no wingers, no attacking threat from set-pieces... and if we know what the problems are, then the coaching staff do, too. They know much more than us, yet for me, they aren't doing enough to try and solve them.

So far this close-season, we've swapped our left-back for another one, brought in a reserve right back, and spent £20m on a centre-forward. We've spent the whole summer courting a central midfielder despite being blessed with a huge array of talent there, brought in a new backup keeper, and completely ignored the wings.

Did we bring in someone who will get round the outside of their full-back and put crosses in?

No.

Did we bring in anyone who can move between the lines of midfield and attack, make creative runs, and generally break other teams down?

No.

Did we address the dead-ball situation?

No.


Therefore, ladies and gentleman, we still have the same problems as the last few years - problems that buying a £20m centre forward will not fix. As depressing as it is, we're not going to win the league, and we all know why.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=227660.0
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Discuss :D

You know what?  This is a great post and all who have praised it are spot on.  Makes you wonder, though, why we don't see more quality contributions like this on our own board?  I wonder if anyone from RAWK sneaks on here to borrow from our treasure-trove of one-liners? ???

TBH Bob it p!sses me off when people drag their discussion over here, why cant their posts be discussed over there if its so bleedin insightful, or if you read something you agree with why cant you just put it in your words?
Not having a go at anyone in particular.
But hey maybe your right Bob, maybe the standard is sh!t on here so why dont we withdraw our support and just pile over there??
Last edited by Rush Job on Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SundanceKid » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:33 am

We could have put all 20 million pounds in a bag and threw it on the field and it would do more than Keane does. :censored: christ
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:38 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:^Why would someone spend half a day typing that up?

Are you timing me mate? If so i`d get a new watch.
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Postby Bad Bob » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:38 am

Rush Job wrote:But hey maybe your right Bob, maybe the standard is sh!t on here so why dont we withdraw our support and just pile over there??

Or maybe, mate, we could all make a collective effort to raise the level of discussion on this board. ???
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:43 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Rush Job wrote:But hey maybe your right Bob, maybe the standard is sh!t on here so why dont we withdraw our support and just pile over there??

Or maybe, mate, we could all make a collective effort to raise the level of discussion on this board. ???

Are you saying i need to raise my standard? Because i have no control over anyone else.
I dont think the strandard on here is that bad TBO, but what happens is good posts/points get all to easy passed over because everyones to busy abusing each other.
Maybe we need a litte direction from the mods? Now thats just an idea.
Last edited by Rush Job on Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bad Bob » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:53 am

Rush Job wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Rush Job wrote:But hey maybe your right Bob, maybe the standard is sh!t on here so why dont we withdraw our support and just pile over there??

Or maybe, mate, we could all make a collective effort to raise the level of discussion on this board. ???

Are you saying i need to raise my standard? Because i have no control over anyone else.

No, I wasn't singling you out, mate (nor anyone else for that matter).  I just wonder whether actual, in-depth discussion is going the way of the dodo around here...crowded out by all the one-liners, smileys, p!ss-takes and "spot on, mates" that pass for commentary these days.  I'd like to see all members (and I include myself here) make more of an effort to discuss our play in more detail rather than just rip top posts from other threads or, worse, close their accounts and bunk off to RAWK.  Probably not the time nor the place for this discussion (should be in Mick's "annual plea" thread to be honest) but there you go...
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Postby Bad Bob » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:55 am

Rush Job wrote:I dont think the strandard on here is that bad TBO, but what happens is good posts/points get all to easy passed over because everyones to busy abusing each other.  Maybe we need a litte direction from the mods? Now thats just an idea.

Righto.  The mods hereby direct everyone to stop abusing each other and post better stuff on the footy!  Sorted. :D
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Postby ruskiy playmaker » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:58 am

Rush Job wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:^Why would someone spend half a day typing that up?

Are you timing me mate? If so i`d get a new watch.

No, that's just how long it would take me to do that. :D
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:30 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Rush Job wrote:I dont think the strandard on here is that bad TBO, but what happens is good posts/points get all to easy passed over because everyones to busy abusing each other.  Maybe we need a litte direction from the mods? Now thats just an idea.

Righto.  The mods hereby direct everyone to stop abusing each other and post better stuff on the footy!  Sorted. :D

Done and done. :D
Sh!t that wasnt even a half line, i know shocking contribution.
:D
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:33 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:^Why would someone spend half a day typing that up?

Are you timing me mate? If so i`d get a new watch.

No, that's just how long it would take me to do that. :D

Yer well im special dont ya know. :D
At least thats what that nice teacher who used to put my nappy on used to say.
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:35 am

Sh!t that was another one liner im dragging this site down.




















Ive done it again. :wwww
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Postby Effes » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:37 am

Time to lock this thread?
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:51 am

Effes wrote:Time to lock this thread?

Well if thats the most you can contribute maybe your right.
You should take a course mate. :D
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