Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

I think that our performance today was by far the best we have seen this season (not really saying much), our defence apart from a few shaky moments by Skrtel was solid with Reina again impressing with the little he had to do. Carra had probably his best game of the season, against a very difficult opponent and still had time to help out his team mates when the need arose.

Our midfield with Mascherano back looked much more solid and composed, and while we never got our passing flowing it did at times look as if the players knew they were on the same side.

All our problems were when we tried to make any progress forward...... we showed little or no creativity, with our midfield seemingly happy just to find another player wearing the same grey shirt rather than creating any openings in the Villa defence. Masch made a couple of foreys forward and Alonso had a good shot deflected wide , but apart from one pass from Masch that set Keane free on goal it was mainly just a good defensive performance from our intrepid duo.

Up front we looked baffled, bewildered and impotent even before Torres went off. After his departure we seemed to accept that we were just killing time and looked as if we would willingly have taken a draw if offered.  The two highlights of our forward play were two moments from Keane, a brilliant pass (reminicent of Pacheco in pre-season)that set Ngog free only to scoop his shot just over the bar, and a pass from Masch that saw Keane through on goal, but hesitation from Keane (he should have chested the ball and then hit it)saw a tackle come in from Coker that was enough to force Keane to misshit his shot wide.

Rafa added to the fun by making some strange decisions with his subs and formations. On another day maybe they would have worked and he would have been a genius, today they didn't and made him look slightly foolish.   

The sad thing for me is that if we had shown a little more ambition I think we could have won this game, but maybe with Gerrard missing and Torres injured Rafa decided to take the bird in the hand rather than gamble on the 3 in the bush?

For me Keane has looked no better than Kuyt so far, yet Kuyt gets dogs abuse while Keane as yet seems almost immune from such criticism. I think its been written in the stars that Robbie will get his first goal against the mancs, I hope so anyway. Defeat again against the mancs is unthinkable, we have to win that game.

Much has been said about how narrow we play, for me the problem is not how narrow we play but how static our players are. Rather than making room with intelligent running they seemed happy to take the ball standing still before passing it back to the midfield, who with no wide players to pass to, had no option but to play it forward to another player standing like a statue.

Both Kuyt and Keane when receiving the ball wide cut inside rather than trying to make any progress and just made a congested midfield even worse.

I am not too disappointed at the result (although I expected us to win) but I am very disappointed at the way in which we achieved it.

At least I fkn tried 

[Sabre]

Time to lock this thread?

I'd like to post my happy clappy-unrealistic-doesn't really know-what's he's on about- view first, then have a shower, and get ready for a tough monday.

That Martin O'Neill has a well worked team. He prepares a lot of details. I think if we counted the number of passes Aston Villa makes in a match, it would double the normal passes of most premiership team. O'Neill, by the looks of it, doesn't like to gamble the ball, and he doesn't allow the ball being lost in certain positions. When Aston Villa loses the ball they lose it well  up in the pitch. When you attack them as a result they're all well positioned in two lines. They only advanced the line a lot to wait our long Reina goal kicks, other than that they were compact as fúck.

As a result you get a very continental game, which most of you will dislike. These games are like that, and to solve them you need touches of inspiration which we didn't have. Alonso improved in the second half but in the first half he only got spot on the easy passes. Without an inspired Alonso, without Gerrard, and without Torres to make danger with his pace in certain moments, we had a typical la Liga game. Boring as fúck? maybe, but it will be difficult for many teams to beat that team.

I think a combination of a too rigid game and Keane out of position has brought many anger to many fellow reds, but I'm much less worried after watching the game, I thought I was going to see a worse game than the previous ones!

Walk on!

[Rush Job]

I think that our performance today was by far the best we have seen this season (not really saying much), our defence apart from a few shaky moments by Skrtel was solid with Reina again impressing with the little he had to do. Carra had probably his best game of the season, against a very difficult opponent and still had time to help out his team mates when the need arose.

Our midfield with Mascherano back looked much more solid and composed, and while we never got our passing flowing it did at times look as if the players knew they were on the same side.

All our problems were when we tried to make any progress forward...... we showed little or no creativity, with our midfield seemingly happy just to find another player wearing the same grey shirt rather than creating any openings in the Villa defence. Masch made a couple of foreys forward and Alonso had a good shot deflected wide , but apart from one pass from Masch that set Keane free on goal it was mainly just a good defensive performance from our intrepid duo.

Up front we looked baffled, bewildered and impotent even before Torres went off. After his departure we seemed to accept that we were just killing time and looked as if we would willingly have taken a draw if offered.  The two highlights of our forward play were two moments from Keane, a brilliant pass (reminicent of Pacheco in pre-season)that set Ngog free only to scoop his shot just over the bar, and a pass from Masch that saw Keane through on goal, but hesitation from Keane (he should have chested the ball and then hit it)saw a tackle come in from Coker that was enough to force Keane to misshit his shot wide.

Rafa added to the fun by making some strange decisions with his subs and formations. On another day maybe they would have worked and he would have been a genius, today they didn't and made him look slightly foolish.   

The sad thing for me is that if we had shown a little more ambition I think we could have won this game, but maybe with Gerrard missing and Torres injured Rafa decided to take the bird in the hand rather than gamble on the 3 in the bush?

For me Keane has looked no better than Kuyt so far, yet Kuyt gets dogs abuse while Keane as yet seems almost immune from such criticism. I think its been written in the stars that Robbie will get his first goal against the mancs, I hope so anyway. Defeat again against the mancs is unthinkable, we have to win that game.

Much has been said about how narrow we play, for me the problem is not how narrow we play but how static our players are. Rather than making room with intelligent running they seemed happy to take the ball standing still before passing it back to the midfield, who with no wide players to pass to, had no option but to play it forward to another player standing like a statue.

Both Kuyt and Keane when receiving the ball wide cut inside rather than trying to make any progress and just made a congested midfield even worse.

I am not too disappointed at the result (although I expected us to win) but I am very disappointed at the way in which we achieved it.

At least I fkn tried 

Thats just about exactly how i saw it mate, cant help but feel we could of done with a player like Pacheco(sp) in behind,  player always looking for the best pass instead of the easiest or less risky, we have no creation wide so why not play/bring on someone who would have roamed across the back four, away looking to play someone in, or at least fkin play.
What did you think of Dossena? I think he did ok, he showed he can put in a good ball IMO, fair enough they never found anyone   but they were the kind of deliverys we`ve been missing from there, he wiped a couple across into the right place just no one was there or no one attacked them,again IMO.
Thoughts?

[Effes]

Forgetting players' performances:
What would anyone give Rafa out of ten on yesterday's game?

Putting Ngog on when Torres was injured was poor.
Aurelio for Kuyt?
Taking Keane off for Benayoun?

Rafa gets a 3 off me.

[ConnO'var]

I'd give him pi()

[Effes]

I'd give him pi()

What? 3.14159265 ?

Bit generous there lad.

[112-1077774096]

I'd give him a P45

[ConnO'var]

That's the one Effes... 22/7......

I prefer Peewee's answer though.  ... but then I'm not quite rational right now.... still livid from yesterday. 

[Rush Job]

Forgetting players' performances:
What would anyone give Rafa out of ten on yesterday's game?

Putting Ngog on when Torres was injured was poor.
Aurelio for Kuyt?
Taking Keane off for Benayoun?

Rafa gets a 3 off me.

Its a good question mate and it got me thinking (even at this hour).
I wouldnt go as far as 3, i think a rating of 3 is like firing squad material TBO.
Im not a million miles away though i`d go for 5 at worst and a very mediocre 6 at best.
Putting on Ngog for me is understandable, thats why he was signed, thats why he`s on the bench, and for the record had the best atempt at goal, but for a few inches he would have opened his account with a absolute screamer.
Aurelio was the stange one, not because it was for Kuyt because he looked shattered to me. The only thing i can think is we were starting to come under presure so maybe he made the decision to tighten up the left.But remember its not like putting Arbeloa right wing as the lad can play a little further up, and of course he can give balance and width.
Keane for Benayoun, again its a move i can understand, we were having trouble finding a decent final ball or even providing a half chance, so put him on and get Ngog around him.
Im not saying i would have done all these things its just i dont see them as total madness, either were they "random" decisions".
Im actually quite good at predicting Rafa, i seem to be the only one not shocked when he does this or that move. Thats not to say i always agree like, he definitely needs to learn to go for it a bit more.
So incase you`ve forgotten, i`ll go 5 and a half, must do better.

[LiverpoolMadman]

This is what I think

Putting Ngog on when Torres was injured was poor.

There are 2 answers;

It's OK putting NGOG as striker, but he need support from Keane but Keane keep playing on the left side of the midfield. I remember the 1st 15mins of the 2nd half, he almost score a goal , passing from Keane. But Rafa did mess of it by changing Keane.

or

When Torres out, Rafa should let kuyt up-front with Keane and Babel playing on the right midfield. 

The other two , only Rafa knows well the answer.

[Owzat]

I think that our Our midfield with Mascherano back looked much more solid and composed, and while we never got our passing flowing it did at times look as if the players knew they were on the same side.

All our problems were when we tried to make any progress forward...... we showed little or no creativity, with our midfield seemingly happy just to find another player wearing the same grey shirt rather than creating any openings in the Villa defence. Masch made a couple of foreys forward and Alonso had a good shot deflected wide , but apart from one pass from Masch that set Keane free on goal it was mainly just a good defensive performance from our intrepid duo.

Unfortunately the midfield lacks a cutting edge in an attacking sense, you do wonder where the goals are going to come from and most moves start well enough but then the players don't seem to be able to open up the defence with passes. We resort to the long pass far too often, was it not one of those which Torres injured himself chasing? It's no coincidence we've scored only four goals in five games

Rafa added to the fun by making some strange decisions with his subs and formations. On another day maybe they would have worked and he would have been a genius, today they didn't and made him look slightly foolish.   

El Zhar who changed the way the SL game was heading was an unused sub, not quite sure why he didn't get a game. I think he was settling for a draw, the absence of Gerrard doubtless weighing on his mind and he had probably already decided that if he could get a draw then he'd take it.

For me Keane has looked no better than Kuyt so far, yet Kuyt gets dogs abuse while Keane as yet seems almost immune from such criticism. I think its been written in the stars that Robbie will get his first goal against the mancs, I hope so anyway. Defeat again against the mancs is unthinkable, we have to win that game.

You can't criticise the £20.3m signing no matter how badly he plays!  Right about the game against the mancs, even a draw would take us back to drawing too many. You have to wonder if yesterday wasn't a dry run for the manc game, Rafa may be forced to rethink

Both Kuyt and Keane when receiving the ball wide cut inside rather than trying to make any progress and just made a congested midfield even worse.

Hopefully the arrival of Riera will sort out one flank, I wonder who will be axed. 400 mins of not a lot from Keane should see him hit the bench, I don't care how much he cost.

I am not too disappointed at the result (although I expected us to win) but I am very disappointed at the way in which we achieved it.

At least I fkn tried 

A draw away with our best two players off the pitch and the best players left on the pitch being in defence and a couple of less than creative midfielders, is a good result. I was relieved come the final whistle, I would have liked us to win three in a row at the start of a season for the first time in 14 (?) years, but we could barely create a chance worthy of the name. God help us if that is who we field and how we play next league game

94/95 First three games

Palace 1-6 Liverpool
Liverpool 3-0 Arsenal
Southampton 0-2 Liverpool

Final position was 4th with only 18 more wins in the remaining 39 games.

[account deleted by request]

What did you think of Dossena? I think he did ok, he showed he can put in a good ball IMO, fair enough they never found anyone   but they were the kind of deliverys we`ve been missing from there, he wiped a couple across into the right place just no one was there or no one attacked them,again IMO.
Thoughts?

I thought Dossena did well, he seemed to pick his moments to go forward a lot better than he has in previous games, and seemed steady enough in defence. Going forward he made a couple of cracking crosses that on another day might have led to a goal and he didn't get caught in possession which had previously been one of his faults.

Still pretty slow getting back, but looks like he is adapting to the style of football we want from him. Early days yet but he is beginning to look like a player rather than an expensive mistake.

[66-1112520797]

TBH the result didnt suprise me, neither did the performance, it was very ordinary to say the least. We as a team still look lost without Gerrard and when Torres went off any chance of three points went with it.
Defensively we were okay as the midfield offer what they usually do, good cover but at the same time no attacking threat what so ever.

I have to re-iterate that we are a pretty ordinary looking side without our captain, even when Torres is playing we look ordinary as him nor Keane (when he isnt played out of position) have all the service of a Sunday pub league side, up in the air stuff, its shocking !

Rafa shelled out 20 million on a striker and what does he do, the same as hes done with Kuyt and Babel, stick them out on the wing. If Mascha and Alonso in the center wasnt negative minded enough he ships Keane out there for good measure.

I was dissapointed with Alonso today, he did NOTHING in the final third, and its at times like this when you need players of Alonsos' capabilities to step up and take a chance, he didnt and slotted into his usual comfort zone. There is no way in hell I'd sacrifice Gerrard out wide to pair either MAscha and Alonso up in the midfield, its been proven before and by yesterdays performance that we lack all the creativity a side with title challenging aspirations need to make a fist of it.
Kuyt was his usual self, workman like as usual we good nothing spectacular from him and same with Lucas who still looked as though he was playing at the Olympics (half paced). 

The team selection from the off was, well what would you call it ...... Typical Benitez .... Pragmatic, I think in all our football needs to be that little more expansive because its games like this that show us for what we really are, especially without Gerrard. An ordinary team who are pretty well drilled in the defensive department and thats aided by three out of four midfielders infront of the back four who are also defensive minded.

I asked a question before the season started, 'Do we need to be more expansive in our approach ?' Most people suprisingly said no, for me I still stand by what I said and we need to play a more expansive game, except we dont really have the quality in players to do that with, and with what Rafas' already brought.

Playing Keane out wide was a joke, and bringing Ngog on for Torres didnt work. Its easy to say with Hindsight as the Frenchman could of been a match winner, then everybody on here would be claiming Benitez is a genius. I looked at the bench, and I think I would of thrown Babel on with Keane upfront, then at half time bring Aurelio on for Lucas.

Although Keanes performances have been ordinary, a bit like the teams. To be fair neither him or Torres have had any decent service this season, and once he gets his first goal that will help him settle. I think hes a quality player although his performances havent shown that, but that little reverse ball he played Ngog in, in the first half is what the Irishmans all about. That was class, and he only showed a glimpse of what he's capable of when he moved into the middle more.

Again we played to narrow, in the first half especially our fullbacks didnt push on until the second half really, but the build up to our play was so slow it was like watching Olympics soccer. No ideas in the build, and in the end we ran into trouble.
The second half was a bit better as Rafa grew so Testies and threw Kean up alongside Ngog who didnt look the best player ever to be playing the lone role of a striker. But even then there wasnt enough from Midfield nor Alonso in particular.

A Grey kit, and a grey day at the office.

[LegBarnes]

For me ever time we got to half way line there was no pass on for alonso or masch , this for me was prime reason we did nothing in this game.

Only time we got joy was when we looked to wings yes we then got ball into the final 3rd only to lose it with a poor cross or no cross at all and no over laps.

I feel we need a player who is willing to either run from center of midfield play cleaver 1-2s or wingers who will bomb on to pull the defence of our midfielders.

We all know we need width but we could have it with team we got if Rafa knew how to use it but i get feeling he doesn't.

Width is the most important thing in attacking football you don't have to ever cross the ball but just to have the width will open gaps in there defence.

Don't wanna keep saying REF. to the mancs but they never hardly ping long range crosses in any more , they just run to bylines and put low crosses or cut backs. Arsenal also are great at doing this.

Other thing that worries me if we have no babel , torres or gerrard in attack where do we have pace ? , Pace is fundamental in prem just as much as strength.

So things i like to liverpool improve in more then any thing is width and pace if we had more of those 2 things we would open up teams alot more and with a stiker like torres we be laughting all the way to the top of the table.

Rafa for me is a defencive coach he knows F all about attacking football we need to get some one in who can work with rafa on this area , but Rafa being Rafa he won't have any one in club who thinks as much as he does.

[66-1112520797]

For me ever time we got to half way line there was no pass on for alonso or masch , this for me was prime reason we did nothing in this game.

Thats precisley why neither should be paired together, as Alonsos' ONLY positive attribute going foward is his vision and passing. If neither of them are on, which they're not going to be all the time, hes not going to carry the ball take a man on and open the play up another way. He isnt going to get in the box ala Gerrard and pop up with a goal, neither he OR Mascha are game breakers and can force something to happen.

Maybe the movement upfront could be better for him, but unless he can pick a pass out, were pretty much f.ucked centrally from that position.

Even more worrying is the wide players, again neither Kuyt nor Lucas are able to take a man on and  just simply look to lay it off. We get nowhere fast and the tempo is to slow, there isnt the movement or instinct from either Lucas or Kuyt to get in behind his man and open up a defence. Plus Keane also isnt going to do the damage sitting out on the  left too.

On a bright note I thought Dossena pinged in a few crosses and looked willing and able to get forward, I think that was his best performance for us so far. At times he looked clumbsy while defending against Ashley Young I think it was, but he looked brighter in the final third than any of our midfielders did, that was encoraging at least.