Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:08 pm

Tedious, boring load of f#cking w@nk. And people wonder why some pundits and press dont like the way we play? I just feel sorry for the fans who travelled down there to watch that drivel.

Defence...excellently marshalled, there we are fine by and large. Centre backs largely faultless, Mascherano shielding them well, Aurelio and Finnan making game efforts to go forward, Reina nothing to do

Going forward...just dont get me f#cking started, just dont. Man U miles ahead at the top and we come up with pish like this time and again this season. They arent Chelsea, they dont have a bottomless pit, why should this sort of thing be acceptable for us? Just seems too many cant be ar$ed with the league and are happy to ride the European gravy train.

Champions league becomes top 2 only...then perhaps we might start trying a bit harder at places like these and show more forward intent. This is becoming stagnant and especially seeing Man U crush another team on the way to a title, incredibly dispiriting. I'm sorry, but in terms of an attacking force, they're light years ahead of us.

:angry:

by **JC_81** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:17 pm

The_Rock wrote:Awful performance.... What is rafa thinking by putting a sissoko and mascarano central midfield ? And with a wingback (auerlio) at LW, no wonder we didn't create any note-worthy chances. I hate to say this...and those who know me will testify to it because i hate manure to the core....But AF picks a strong starting 11 for every match (and look at how matches they have played recently) and just see how they tear up every team they face. And now compare that with rafa ?

I think the point about Man U is a fair one. They don't have as big a squad as us yet look at the amount of points they've racked up this season and look at how many games that 30+ players like Giggs, Scholes and Neville have played. The fluidity in the way they've played this season has largely been due to the fact that it's the same core of players playing in their proper positions week-in, week-out. Players don't need rested as much as some sections of the media would have you believe. I'm not completely against rotation, but there has to be a balance and Benitez hasn't found it yet.

Starting Aurelio at left mid today is a disgrace imo. Fair enough if it's away to someone like Barcelona and you're trying to shut up shop, but not Aston Villa FFS. Whether you rate Aurelio or not (personally I don't), it's tactically a mistake to play a full back in midfield against a side you should be looking to hammer.

by **stmichael** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:23 pm

john craig wrote:
The_Rock wrote:Awful performance.... What is rafa thinking by putting a sissoko and mascarano central midfield ? And with a wingback (auerlio) at LW, no wonder we didn't create any note-worthy chances. I hate to say this...and those who know me will testify to it because i hate manure to the core....But AF picks a strong starting 11 for every match (and look at how matches they have played recently) and just see how they tear up every team they face. And now compare that with rafa ?

I think the point about Man U is a fair one. They don't have as big a squad as us yet look at the amount of points they've racked up this season and look at how many games that 30+ players like Giggs, Scholes and Neville have played. The fluidity in the way they've played this season has largely been due to the fact that it's the same core of players playing in their proper positions week-in, week-out. Players don't need rested as much as some sections of the media would have you believe. I'm not completely against rotation, but there has to be a balance and Benitez hasn't found it yet.

Starting Aurelio at left mid today is a disgrace imo. Fair enough if it's away to someone like Barcelona and you're trying to shut up shop, but not Aston Villa FFS. Whether you rate Aurelio or not (personally I don't), it's tactically a mistake to play a full back in midfield against a side you should be looking to hammer.

I agree with you.

Its not so much the performance of the players that worries me most to day it is that of our manager. The line up with a box to box midfielder on the right wing, two defensive midfielders in the middle and a wing back at left wing was suprising considering Villa's inhibition in front of their fans and their inferiority player for player compared to the liverpool side. Benitez doesnt seem to learn from his mistakes - the premiership is not as much a tactical battle as in europe, in the premiership he suffers from the Mclaren syndrome of trying to be too clever in his selections hence excessive rotation and overly defensive formations. This lends to a lack of fluidity in attack and restricts the ability of some of our attacking players to express themselves.

by **JC_81** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:47 pm

stmichael wrote:
john craig wrote:
The_Rock wrote:Awful performance.... What is rafa thinking by putting a sissoko and mascarano central midfield ? And with a wingback (auerlio) at LW, no wonder we didn't create any note-worthy chances. I hate to say this...and those who know me will testify to it because i hate manure to the core....But AF picks a strong starting 11 for every match (and look at how matches they have played recently) and just see how they tear up every team they face. And now compare that with rafa ?

I think the point about Man U is a fair one. They don't have as big a squad as us yet look at the amount of points they've racked up this season and look at how many games that 30+ players like Giggs, Scholes and Neville have played. The fluidity in the way they've played this season has largely been due to the fact that it's the same core of players playing in their proper positions week-in, week-out. Players don't need rested as much as some sections of the media would have you believe. I'm not completely against rotation, but there has to be a balance and Benitez hasn't found it yet.

Starting Aurelio at left mid today is a disgrace imo. Fair enough if it's away to someone like Barcelona and you're trying to shut up shop, but not Aston Villa FFS. Whether you rate Aurelio or not (personally I don't), it's tactically a mistake to play a full back in midfield against a side you should be looking to hammer.

I agree with you.

Its not so much the performance of the players that worries me most to day it is that of our manager. The line up with a box to box midfielder on the right wing, two defensive midfielders in the middle and a wing back at left wing was suprising considering Villa's inhibition in front of their fans and their inferiority player for player compared to the liverpool side. Benitez doesnt seem to learn from his mistakes - the premiership is not as much a tactical battle as in europe, in the premiership he suffers from the Mclaren syndrome of trying to be too clever in his selections hence excessive rotation and overly defensive formations. This lends to a lack of fluidity in attack and restricts the ability of some of our attacking players to express themselves.

I think you're right in saying Benitez over-thinks things sometimes. Football's a very simple game. Pick your best players and have them playing in their proper positions and you won't go far wrong.

Aside from the team selection, motivation is the other big issue. I'll predict now that we'll end up looking over our shoulder at Bolton etc before the end of the season rather than overhauling Arsenal, especially with more CL games to distract us. After that today all I can say is we better beat PSV otherwise it's a depressing end to a depressing season.

by **weringo** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:05 pm

Well the blueshite helped us out today, Arsenal beaten 1-0

by **CardinalRed** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:06 pm

Of all the ironies, the Bluesh*te see to it that we actually close on the Gooners this weekend, been at work so didn't see the game but got to admit to worrying about how we've dried up in front of the onion bag......?

:cool:

by **Reg** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:15 pm

The Blues wanted to win their game more than the Reds did. Sad really, we'd be 3 points better off if they'd been bothered to get off their :censored:

.

As Martin O'Neill has just said in interview, 'We're in the results business'.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:24 pm

Solid defending.

The only other comment I have is this:

"We are missing Mr Garcia..."

by **stmichael** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:45 pm

We had five players who are, by trade, defenders and two defensive midfielders, plus the goalkeeper. That's 8 players from 11 whose instincts are to prevent goals, not create. Therein lies the problem.

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:52 pm

I decided to stay in bed. After reading this thread, I think that was the best decision I've made in some time.

by **naviedes** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:04 pm

why gonzalez did not play?

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:08 pm

thats got to be up there as one of the worst games of football ive seen all season and im counting every team in the league in that.

by **kalos** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:10 pm

Apalling -Rafa has ballsed it up totally again. Hw many more years before hel earns to pick teams for the EPL?

He must stop anal-ysing the oposition and get our best players playing with the ABSOLUTE priority of Gerrrard in Centre Mid. The opposition managers must be loving it when they see Momo and Alonso in CM because so far this season, in the main, they have both been cr*p compared to last season. Yes win the ball back and within 5 seconds give it away again.

As for missing Garcia - no we didn't there were at least 4 players who gave the ball away as much as he would have. Kuyt, Aurelio, Momo and Mascherano

Can you tell I'm not happy ? Rant over.

by **RUSHIE#9** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:14 pm

After that display today I'm beginning to wonder whether we need somebody on the training staff that specializes in attacking play. It is starting to become obvious that not only are we lacking the playing staff in this department but I also think that this could be the one weakness in Rafa's abilities as a manager.
I seem to remember reading something a couple of years back (possibly Guillem Balague's book - A Season on the Brink) that pointed towards Rafa's teams throughout his career not being big scoring. Admittedly this could be a case of not having the right players available to him or in the case of his early coaching career being at teams lower down the leagues struggling against relegation. However looking back at the stats for his time at Valencia they weren't exactly free-scoring.

Valencia 01/02 Season - 1st with 51 goals scored

Valencia 02/03 Season - 5th with 56 goals scored

Valencia 03/04 Season - 1st with 71 goals scored

As you can see only in his last season did they score a decent amount of goals.
I personally hope that I'm wrong as I do believe that Rafa is probably the est manager in Europe at the moment and I believe that given the resources by the new owners he'll be able to get a squad together that can lift the title, but many more performances in front of goal like what we've had lately and the boo boys and big time whingers will come crawling out of the woodwork.
P.S - I'm NOT one of them.

by **Redman in wales** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:14 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Solid defending.

The only other comment I have is this:

"We are missing Mr Garcia..."

yes we are but the question is 'should we be?'

We are not a one-man team and that one man certainly is not Mr Garcia.

Yes he can produce something special occasionally and unlock defences, but surely we have more than one man capable of doing that!?

Garcia is not the only liverpool player able to unlock defences - and i think his absence is not the reason why we dont win games like this one.

Yes we do miss him, but he's not the reason why we didnt win. Remember he has bad games too when he is none existant for a whole game. And he has definately played in games that finish 0-0 before.

imho - badbob and st mick covered it pretty well with team selection and substitutions. - Thats why we didnt win today

Liverpool FC Forum

ASTON VILLA VS LIVERPOOL - All build up here

Who is online