Liverpool FC Forum

by **Tricky Dicky** » Thu May 27, 2010 7:23 am

BUT then it is ironic you point out what LFC fans do 'without question' and yet you and "many LFC fans" do exactly the same re Josie.

Could you please be more explicit re this statement, then if I can see where you are coming from I maybe able to explain; as I fail to see the irony you're talking about, thanks.

So you don't doubt that Josie could do well here bearing in mind he's only ever done well at :

I was not talking/judging his footballing pedigree. I was discussing the points about fans 'wanting' a certain character at the club. Which to me seems very important to some of them, as much as a manager's attributes regarding the footballing success he has.

by **Penguins** » Thu May 27, 2010 8:01 am

Owzat wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote:Obviously Mourinho and Shankly have different personalities and dispositions (perhaps) about football. But at the end of the day they're in a results driven industry and should be judged on that as much as anything.

So you don't doubt that Josie could do well here bearing in mind he's only ever done well at :

FC PORTO - the biggest club in Portugal, known as one of the "tres grandes" (big three) and who've won SEVENTEEN of the last 26 Portugese titles (about 65%). His biggest achievement in my books is winning the European Cup with them, winning the league with them or subsequently was nothing "special", and even winning the European Cup is not so "massive" - Monaco reached the final also........................

CHELSEA - took over a club that had money being poured into it and finished second only to the "invincibles" the previous season.

INTER MILAN - have won the last FIVE league titles, so you might say they are the biggest club in Serie A (at the moment) Sure he won the European Cup, again more credit for that than winning the league but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final

Tricky Dicky wrote:many LFC fans are saying their goodbyes to Aurelio, I personally see him as a monetary mercinary like Kewell, but that doesn't cloud my judgement on him as a footballer; which is, he's an okay player, not outstanding, not cr.ap but okay in my view. Yet many LFC fans are wishing him well and all the best blah blah when the mans character is not even questioned.

I don't disagree with most of that, people talk of Aurelio as if he was a key player, would be sadly missed and was a legend like Sami

BUT then it is ironic you point out what LFC fans do 'without question' and yet you and "many LFC fans" do exactly the same re Josie. He has picked out the biggest jobs with minimal failure chance since Porto, if he came here and had to cope without money then he might make us a more effective version of what Rafa has done ie still dull but getting (a few) better results, but I wouldn't guarantee he has a magic wand that he will wave and suddenly 19,20,21............... willl appear.

And he got found out at Chelsea, he made a right mess in his third season in charge and eventually was gone. In 06/07 he brought in Pizarro, Sidwell, Bouhlarouz, Ben Haim and Cashley and let a few decent players go, but crucially he left his central defence woefully short meaning we played them at Anfield with Essien at CB.

One thing you can guarantee is that Josie wouldn't come cheap, he picks his clubs carefully to make sure his reputation isn't damaged and so far that's worked for him. Had we moved for him at the end of last season he might have come, no way would his ego come here playing Euro Disney football and with only £40m (if usual spend is anything to go by) to rebuild a side that finished SEVENTH and is in big debt. I wouldn't be too surprised if he is a count and falls out with players easily, he's not been manager at a club for more than 185 games/three and a bit seasons so the extent of how true that might be is hard to judge. Could just as easily be too much of an arrogant dickhead that he falls out with the board and chairman even easier

spot on.

It seems Mourinho has already "carefully" selected his new club.
Another cool 100 million to spend added to the 200 million the club spent last summer...
What a chancetaker... :no

by **Redman in wales** » Thu May 27, 2010 8:26 am

Owzat wrote:INTER MILAN - ..... Sure he won the European Cup, again more credit for that than winning the league but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final

most of your post I can agree with , but you really haven't given enough credit here.

you say "but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final"

they also beat Barcelona in the Semi final.

they also beat Chelsea in the last 16.

by **Penguins** » Thu May 27, 2010 9:14 am

Redman in wales wrote:
Owzat wrote:INTER MILAN - ..... Sure he won the European Cup, again more credit for that than winning the league but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final

most of your post I can agree with , but you really haven't given enough credit here.

you say "but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final"

they also beat Barcelona in the Semi final.

they also beat Chelsea in the last 16.

And how did they beat Barca?
One offside goal at home and played with 9 defensemen away.
Brilliant!

And he :censored:

away 30+ million just in one summer on Quaresma and Mancini. But who cares....

by **Redman in wales** » Thu May 27, 2010 9:34 am

no penguins, the score in the first leg was 3-1, the first two inter goals were not offside either. There was a slight suspicion about the 3rd, but there was also suspicion about barcas goal in the 2nd leg.

the victory was infact, brilliant.

does it matter if you :censored:

away 30+ million if you win a treble - I think not!!!!

by **Penguins** » Thu May 27, 2010 10:32 am

And what about the fact that Inter totally dominant in Italy and that they can outspend anyone there?
Their position is equivalent to Chelski/Manure in the PL.

It was the 1st time since 2004 "the special one" won the CL
even though he has had teams with limitless amounts of funds.
Wow, what a super manager...

In the meantime Rafa has been to 2 finals with maybe 20% of the funding as Mourinho, but please don't take of your blinkers for that....

The fact is Mourinho hasn't even been close of a job managing Lfc would mean since his days at Lieira in Portugal.
Taking over the most financial strongest team in each country and succeed is not what I call "proven".

Where has he shown that he can get more our of cheaper player?
Never, as he has always been allowed to buy the best and most expensive ones.

Surprise that chicken **** went to Real...
Just following his pattern. Then he will be glorified bringing home the Cl in 3 years having a team that was spent hundreds of millions on.
What an achivement. Then he will prolly go to City or retire.
Maybe Bayern if they cough up enough money for him....

by **Redman in wales** » Thu May 27, 2010 11:48 am

Woah.. calm down there penguins. Chillax dude. All I was saying is he’s done well at inter for winning a treble where no one else spending any amount of money there before him could it it. Madrid outspent more than anyone last summer and didn’t win a thing. Man city outspent everyone in England last season and didn’t finish top 4. Money aint everything.

I cant stand the man – but I think it was a good achievement to win the treble. No blinkers needed mate, I just look at winning things as a sign of a good manager not just getting to finals.

Yes he may go where the money is, but so what – if you want to win titles then that’s where you go. Look at utd/Chelsea, barca/Madrid, inter – all have riches and no other clubs have won their domestic league for the last 5 years.

I don’t know if he is “proven” or not, it depends on your own definition I suppose. – but who is nowadays? Rafa? (who hasn’t won a league title since 2004) Pellegrini wasn’t but he still spent a shed-load and ended up empty handed which proves you need more than just money.

TBH I don’t care if he never comes here. I think he’s an arrogant c0ck and a first class pr1ck. But I think he has managerial talent which has been proved buy buying the right kind of players and playing the right systems in order to win trophys and he should be applauded for what he did at Inter, winning a treble where no-one before him had

by **Sir Roger** » Thu May 27, 2010 12:08 pm

Penguins wrote:
Redman in wales wrote:
Owzat wrote:INTER MILAN - ..... Sure he won the European Cup, again more credit for that than winning the league but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final

most of your post I can agree with , but you really haven't given enough credit here.

you say "but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final"

they also beat Barcelona in the Semi final.

they also beat Chelsea in the last 16.

And how did they beat Barca?
One offside goal at home and played with 9 defensemen away.
Brilliant!

And he away 30+ million just in one summer on Quaresma and Mancini. But who cares....

He won the treble
:eyebrow

by **Penguins** » Thu May 27, 2010 12:57 pm

Redman in wales wrote:Woah.. calm down there penguins. Chillax dude. All I was saying is he’s done well at inter for winning a treble where no one else spending any amount of money there before him could it it. Madrid outspent more than anyone last summer and didn’t win a thing. Man city outspent everyone in England last season and didn’t finish top 4. Money aint everything.

I cant stand the man – but I think it was a good achievement to win the treble. No blinkers needed mate, I just look at winning things as a sign of a good manager not just getting to finals.

Yes he may go where the money is, but so what – if you want to win titles then that’s where you go. Look at utd/Chelsea, barca/Madrid, inter – all have riches and no other clubs have won their domestic league for the last 5 years.

I don’t know if he is “proven” or not, it depends on your own definition I suppose. – but who is nowadays? Rafa? (who hasn’t won a league title since 2004) Pellegrini wasn’t but he still spent a shed-load and ended up empty handed which proves you need more than just money.

TBH I don’t care if he never comes here. I think he’s an arrogant c0ck and a first class pr1ck. But I think he has managerial talent which has been proved buy buying the right kind of players and playing the right systems in order to win trophys and he should be applauded for what he did at Inter, winning a treble where no-one before him had

Well, I am not refuting that Mourinho "might" win a few more games than Rafa, but Mourinho hasn't even been close to managing a club like lfc and been in the position Rafa has.

I'm not saying Mourinho is a failure, but if you look at the position the clubs were in when he took over he has done what was to be expected of him and maybe just a little bit more.

Abramovish wanted the CL more than anything and gave "the special one" 2-300 million and he still failed to win it.

Mourinho has never had to worry about balancing the books or owners who ****** him over all the time.

Royu Hodgson is more proven to make more out of less these past years than Mourinho,

Just look at the trophy haul these past years and it is always(with very few exceptions) the teams spending the most on wages and transfers that win.
Mourinho just happens to pick one of those teams all the time giving him a better chance than average to win.

When was the last time a team won the title not being in the top 3 in wages?
Just a guess, it was a while ago.
And that is the way it will continue to be, be it god or satan being the manager doesn't matter.

Mourinho is just a smart mercenary looking to take advantage of that fact.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:13 pm

we came so close to winning it last season with very limited funding - Rafa might just get it right next season proving we can dump the owners and buy a couple of stars

by **Tricky Dicky** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:36 pm

Lee J wrote:we came so close to winning it last season with very limited funding - Rafa might just get it right next season proving we can dump the owners and buy a couple of stars

That would be ideal, but we're stuck with a couple of leeches unfortunately.

by **jacdaniel** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:45 pm

i cant believe the Rafa threads are so popular. Love him or hate him, lets just accept that he is gonna be here next season and probably til the new owners come in.

the main issue is H+G. We need them out quickly! Until that happens, the manager is irrelevant.

If new owners come in before next summer, then you can bet Rafa will be sacked straight away. Unless of course he wins the league or comes very close.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Thu May 27, 2010 2:11 pm

the new owners might not treat rafa the same as these 2 clowns do so they might decide to keep him and give him the oppurtunity to develop the team.

by **shawnk** » Thu May 27, 2010 9:38 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
Penguins wrote:
Redman in wales wrote:
Owzat wrote:INTER MILAN - ..... Sure he won the European Cup, again more credit for that than winning the league but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final

most of your post I can agree with , but you really haven't given enough credit here.

you say "but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final"

they also beat Barcelona in the Semi final.

they also beat Chelsea in the last 16.

And how did they beat Barca?
One offside goal at home and played with 9 defensemen away.
Brilliant!

And he away 30+ million just in one summer on Quaresma and Mancini. But who cares....

He won the treble

Any manager who can beat the current Barcelona team over two matches is a great manager. Simple as that really irregardless of how much money you have (e.g. Real Madrid).

Bet most of the fans here would be saying differently if he has the look of Rafa with the same achievement?

by **Zidane** » Fri May 28, 2010 1:06 am

Rafa and Mourinho both have very similiar tactics imo. Watching Inter play was like watching us back in the CL, when we were actually winning in it, that is. The only difference, which DOES matter, is that Mourinho has always been at a club where he could get the players he wanted and could always play to his managing strengths. I don't see what him beating Barca has to do with anything really because I am confident that if that were us and we were on our game we could have the done same exact thing, in large part due to Rafa's tactics. We've been through our fair share of major upsets in the CL as well, so don't go off kissing Mourinho's behind because of what he managed to achieve this season all the while forgetting what Rafa has done for us across Europe.

They're both great at playing to win and not lose, defending first etc etc. Like I said though the major difference is that Mourinho has always been in a great position to succeed where Rafa has been in a less than ideal situation and still has managed to do well. Rafa needs more quality in the side to get his tactics to work the way he wants them to on a day in day out basis though while Mourinho tends to always have it at his disposal.

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