All things Rafa (merged threads) - stick yer Rafa sh'it in here

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Bad Bob » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:29 pm

s@int wrote:No problems Bob. As you can see my position has not changed. There is no doubt in my mind that Rafa has done it before as you so rightly said, and it wouldn't have been unbelievable for him to have done it on this occasion ..... would it ?

Unbelievable?  No, I'll grant you that one.  Highly, highly unlikely, though?  I think so.

Anyway, it matters not...the story was just paper talk, Gerrard's on the mend, we won a big match last night and the sun is shining (and not just out of Rafa's behind :D ).  Life is good.  :pirate
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:32 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
s@int wrote:No problems Bob. As you can see my position has not changed. There is no doubt in my mind that Rafa has done it before as you so rightly said, and it wouldn't have been unbelievable for him to have done it on this occasion ..... would it ?

Unbelievable?  No, I'll grant you that one.  Highly, highly unlikely, though?  I think so.

Anyway, it matters not...the story was just paper talk, Gerrard's on the mend, we won a big match last night and the sun is shining (and not just out of Rafa's behind :D ).  Life is good.  :pirate

If you can't believe a newspaper ..... what can you believe  :D
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Postby Dundalk » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:35 pm

What cant speak cant lie
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Postby Sir Roger » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:49 pm

Dundalk wrote:What cant speak cant lie

many a slip twixt cup and lip
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Postby heimdall » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:27 pm

s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Ahh, but what did our good friend Heimdall suggest as a result?  :D

TBH I am not sure now mate........ I can't find anything in here now its been merged :angry:  :D

I think I thought we were going to loose, I was very pleasantly surprised Bad Bob, old chum.
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Postby Sir Roger » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:43 pm

heimdall wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Ahh, but what did our good friend Heimdall suggest as a result?  :D

TBH I am not sure now mate........ I can't find anything in here now its been merged :angry:  :D

I think I thought we were going to loose, I was very pleasantly surprised Bad Bob, old chum.

Just jump off the pier head
you unbeliever...
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Postby sgs » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:46 pm

Oliver Kay's article in The Times IMO is a must read for all Liverpool fans, especially those out there forever mouthing about Rafa, Lucas, Kuyt, etc.

The reality is Liverpool is not the club we think it to be. Love and passion for the club or hate and derision for Rafa will not change the fact that we are not equipped to compete in this day and age.

This is not to say that Rafa should not be criticized; by all means he should, and must. But folks must always temper this with realism. On the pitch is the only place we are making progress, however little...

The first question that derives from all this is: given the current reality of the club and the game in general, can we do better? The answer is that you can always do better- the players, Rafa Benitez, etc. Certainly we could've done better vs Hull, Stoke, Fulham Spurs, Boro, etc.

However, the 64 dollar question is, based on these same realities, can we make much further progress in both the short and long term by replacing Benitez, paying him the compensation this would demand, and starting again? More importantly, if we did this, would such a decision in any way impact the fundamental issues Oliver Kay has raised?

==================================================

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....985.ece

Oliver Kay, Football Correspondent
Life at Anfield was quiet. A few people might mill around during the week, trying to spot a star or snatch an autograph, but it was only on match days that any real crowd gathered. Go to Old Trafford any day of the week and you will see . . . crowds gathering, buying tickets, drifting around the souvenir shop, queuing for the museum or simply gawping at the stadium. Old Trafford is supermarket football.”

The above paragraph could easily have been written last week, but in fact it was written 15 years ago in Stephen F. Kelly’s biography of Graeme Souness. Kelly went on to portray Manchester United as a corporate monster and Liverpool as a cosy corner shop, but he suggested that things were changing, that the Merseyside club were evolving into “a multimillion-pound business staffed by well-paid executives in Marks & Spencer suits and where success is imperative on and off the field”. How did that go, then?

In one sense it sounds like a bygone age and in another it feels as if nothing has changed. As United close in on Liverpool’s proud record of 18 league titles — it was 18-7 when the Premier League was launched in 1992 — the instinct among the Merseyside club’s supporters may be to bemoan the disharmony in the boardroom, Rafael Benítez’s contract saga, injuries to Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard or even just to blame Lucas Leiva, but the reality is that Liverpool are just about punching their weight on the pitch while falling dramatically short in all other departments.

On the pitch, Liverpool have a team capable of beating Real Madrid away from home in the Champions League. As a club, though, they are so dogged by infighting and inertia that it is difficult to see what happens next.

Everywhere you look, it is a collision of cultures, the old guard at odds with the new — with Rick Parry, the chief executive, ousted and David Moores, the former chairman, contemplating stepping down from his honorary role as life president — and even the new at odds with the new. Parry’s departure has been portrayed as a move towards unity and, in the view of Tom Hicks, the co-owner, towards dynamism, but, barring a change of ownership or an enormous injection of cash, the underlying problems will remain.

Every home match at Anfield generates about £1.5 million, meaning that their match-day revenue over an average season is likely to be about £37.5 million. United, their stadium full to its 76,000 capacity and their corporate lounges heaving every week, earn more than £3 million every time they play at Old Trafford. Last season their match-day revenue topped £100 million. It is one reason why their accounts for the financial year ending June 30, 2008, will see a turnover in excess of £300 million, the largest recorded by a British club.

Liverpool simply cannot compete with that and, while a lack of dynamism or commercial vision has been a factor in their efforts to break away from the corner-shop mentality, it is not the biggest one. Ultimately it comes down to location, location, location and, whereas Old Trafford always had potential for expansion Anfield, hemmed between rows of Victorian terraces, remains every bit the corner shop.

Much of the blame for that has been laid at Parry’s door, not least by Hicks, who has described the chief executive’s tenure as “disastrous”. As a global brand, Liverpool are woefully underdeveloped — incredibly, they were the last Premier League club to have their own website and did not even have a commercial director until the appointment of Ian Ayre in 2007 — but the shortfall in commercial revenue (£41 million in the 2006-07 campaign, against United’s £56 million) does not begin to reflect match days.

Parry cannot be accused of hiding from that fact. Almost as soon as he had taken office, he identified the need to relocate. But all their efforts over the past decade have been hampered by planning issues, a lack of funding, rising construction costs and now the global economic climate. Moores sold the club to Hicks and George Gillett Jr on the premise that they would provide the money to deliver the new stadium while supplying Benítez with funds to strengthen his squad. Instead they have delivered discord and wrangling, not just with Parry and Benítez but with each other.

It is an utter mess, with Gillett desperate to sell his stake but seemingly intent on being obstructive for as long as he struggles to find a buyer. It is why the feeling persists that Benítez has made Liverpool about as competitive as they can expect to be in the Premier League while somehow making them one of the most feared teams in Europe. That will not prevent the inevitable gnashing of teeth on Merseyside when United draw level with their total of 18 league titles in May. But, for as long as Liverpool remain at such a competitive disadvantage, it cannot be classed as underachievement.

If Parry could turn the clock back to 2007, he would not allow Hicks and Gillett anywhere near the place. If he could turn it back ten years, he might approve a full-scale redevelopment of Anfield. As it is, he will leave the club in May much as he found it and as Moores found it when he took over as chairman in 1991 — in need of investment, in need of direction and, above all, in need of the nineteenth league title that continues not just to elude them, but to pass them by completely.
Floyd stepped left and threw the hook that caught Hatton flush under the chin. Finally, the British champ had arrived in that mythical place of which his fans speak: Hatton Wonderland.
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Postby milou » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:11 pm

sgs wrote:Oliver Kay's article in The Times IMO is a must read for all Liverpool fans, especially those out there forever mouthing about Rafa, Lucas, Kuyt, etc.

The reality is Liverpool is not the club we think it to be. Love and passion for the club or hate and derision for Rafa will not change the fact that we are not equipped to compete in this day and age.

This is not to say that Rafa should not be criticized; by all means he should, and must. But folks must always temper this with realism. On the pitch is the only place we are making progress, however little...

The first question that derives from all this is: given the current reality of the club and the game in general, can we do better? The answer is that you can always do better- the players, Rafa Benitez, etc. Certainly we could've done better vs Hull, Stoke, Fulham Spurs, Boro, etc.

However, the 64 dollar question is, based on these same realities, can we make much further progress in both the short and long term by replacing Benitez, paying him the compensation this would demand, and starting again? More importantly, if we did this, would such a decision in any way impact the fundamental issues Oliver Kay has raised?

==================================================

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....985.ece

Oliver Kay, Football Correspondent
Life at Anfield was quiet. A few people might mill around during the week, trying to spot a star or snatch an autograph, but it was only on match days that any real crowd gathered. Go to Old Trafford any day of the week and you will see . . . crowds gathering, buying tickets, drifting around the souvenir shop, queuing for the museum or simply gawping at the stadium. Old Trafford is supermarket football.”

The above paragraph could easily have been written last week, but in fact it was written 15 years ago in Stephen F. Kelly’s biography of Graeme Souness. Kelly went on to portray Manchester United as a corporate monster and Liverpool as a cosy corner shop, but he suggested that things were changing, that the Merseyside club were evolving into “a multimillion-pound business staffed by well-paid executives in Marks & Spencer suits and where success is imperative on and off the field”. How did that go, then?

In one sense it sounds like a bygone age and in another it feels as if nothing has changed. As United close in on Liverpool’s proud record of 18 league titles — it was 18-7 when the Premier League was launched in 1992 — the instinct among the Merseyside club’s supporters may be to bemoan the disharmony in the boardroom, Rafael Benítez’s contract saga, injuries to Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard or even just to blame Lucas Leiva, but the reality is that Liverpool are just about punching their weight on the pitch while falling dramatically short in all other departments.

On the pitch, Liverpool have a team capable of beating Real Madrid away from home in the Champions League. As a club, though, they are so dogged by infighting and inertia that it is difficult to see what happens next.

Everywhere you look, it is a collision of cultures, the old guard at odds with the new — with Rick Parry, the chief executive, ousted and David Moores, the former chairman, contemplating stepping down from his honorary role as life president — and even the new at odds with the new. Parry’s departure has been portrayed as a move towards unity and, in the view of Tom Hicks, the co-owner, towards dynamism, but, barring a change of ownership or an enormous injection of cash, the underlying problems will remain.

Every home match at Anfield generates about £1.5 million, meaning that their match-day revenue over an average season is likely to be about £37.5 million. United, their stadium full to its 76,000 capacity and their corporate lounges heaving every week, earn more than £3 million every time they play at Old Trafford. Last season their match-day revenue topped £100 million. It is one reason why their accounts for the financial year ending June 30, 2008, will see a turnover in excess of £300 million, the largest recorded by a British club.

Liverpool simply cannot compete with that and, while a lack of dynamism or commercial vision has been a factor in their efforts to break away from the corner-shop mentality, it is not the biggest one. Ultimately it comes down to location, location, location and, whereas Old Trafford always had potential for expansion Anfield, hemmed between rows of Victorian terraces, remains every bit the corner shop.

Much of the blame for that has been laid at Parry’s door, not least by Hicks, who has described the chief executive’s tenure as “disastrous”. As a global brand, Liverpool are woefully underdeveloped — incredibly, they were the last Premier League club to have their own website and did not even have a commercial director until the appointment of Ian Ayre in 2007 — but the shortfall in commercial revenue (£41 million in the 2006-07 campaign, against United’s £56 million) does not begin to reflect match days.

Parry cannot be accused of hiding from that fact. Almost as soon as he had taken office, he identified the need to relocate. But all their efforts over the past decade have been hampered by planning issues, a lack of funding, rising construction costs and now the global economic climate. Moores sold the club to Hicks and George Gillett Jr on the premise that they would provide the money to deliver the new stadium while supplying Benítez with funds to strengthen his squad. Instead they have delivered discord and wrangling, not just with Parry and Benítez but with each other.

It is an utter mess, with Gillett desperate to sell his stake but seemingly intent on being obstructive for as long as he struggles to find a buyer. It is why the feeling persists that Benítez has made Liverpool about as competitive as they can expect to be in the Premier League while somehow making them one of the most feared teams in Europe. That will not prevent the inevitable gnashing of teeth on Merseyside when United draw level with their total of 18 league titles in May. But, for as long as Liverpool remain at such a competitive disadvantage, it cannot be classed as underachievement.

If Parry could turn the clock back to 2007, he would not allow Hicks and Gillett anywhere near the place. If he could turn it back ten years, he might approve a full-scale redevelopment of Anfield. As it is, he will leave the club in May much as he found it and as Moores found it when he took over as chairman in 1991 — in need of investment, in need of direction and, above all, in need of the nineteenth league title that continues not just to elude them, but to pass them by completely.

good article.

on a broader scope, the point about revenue is a valid one.

but it would miss the point about our league performance THIS season.

we didn't draw all the home games because we earned less money on match days.

we lost the title bcos we chose to go on an unusually bad run after jan THIS season, when we almost always played very very well in the same period, for as far as i can remember.

we "gifted" the title to man utd without a fight bcos our manager and players lack of guts and grit when it matters most.
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Postby woof woof ! » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:50 pm

milou wrote:we lost the title bcos we chose to go on an unusually bad run after jan THIS season,

???

We "chose to go on a bad run" ?

f'ks sake, I've read some sh'ite in here over the years but that just about takes the "Biggest Load of Sh'it I've Ever Heard" award.


:talktothehand
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Postby milou » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:10 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
milou wrote:we lost the title bcos we chose to go on an unusually bad run after jan THIS season,

???

We "chose to go on a bad run" ?

f'ks sake, I've read some sh'ite in here over the years but that just about takes the "Biggest Load of Sh'it I've Ever Heard" award.


:talktothehand

Wow.. How smart of you to just pick a line and put it out of context!  ??? But I CHOOSE not to be offended ya? :rasp

Anyway, fair enough.. it should have been "chose". My mistake.

What I meant is we almost always go on very good run after new year, so why did we bottle up this season when it matters most?

So while I agree we obviously didn't choose to go on a bad run, I stand by my comment that Rafa and the players lack guts and grit.. and as a result we conceded the title to the mancs without a fight.
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Postby tubby » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:11 pm

Whats with all the Rafa threads? Merge them ffs
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Postby LegBarnes » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:28 pm

bavlondon wrote:Whats with all the Rafa threads? Merge them ffs

Why don't you merge this ....

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To ya Forehead just to give any ladies warning before dating you.

:D
Last edited by LegBarnes on Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tubby » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:43 pm

Or better yet merge a dildo to your head with a label saying "property of Ryan Babel". :laugh:
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Postby LegBarnes » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:01 pm

bavlondon wrote:Or better yet merge a dildo to your head with a label saying "property of Ryan Babel". :laugh:

Or better still merge ya sense of humor to a koren missle then it be less predictable.
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Postby tubby » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:25 pm

As predictable as say....Ryan Babel with a ball at his feet? :laugh:

Better still just keep quiet next time before telling a joke.
Last edited by tubby on Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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