Liverpool FC Forum

by **Red Dotty** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:43 pm

mramo wrote:Hm, Its his 'Arian' trait kicking in.

Rafa is very selfish, & highly impatient when it comes to team selection & decision-making with his starting 11. We all know he likes to agree to 'disagree' & believe his way is the right way because he fears admitting his weakness in front of the watching public incase they make the mockery out of him. Theres no shame to admit mistakes, hence why he seems to defend every decision he makes. The public arent stupid. And this is what needs to be addressed to Rafa if we have any chance of winning the League.

I noticed in the last 2 years why the squad is rotated frequently partly due to 'hold-ups' - which is Rafa most biggest irritations. (i.e. Injury, Poor Form). But I see his overall logic of Squad rotation. But to change in high numbers in each game cannot be healthy though. We certainly know our strongest 11, but does Rafa?

Every one know's better than Raffa

:no

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:48 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:FWIW, Birmingham are the only team that will defend that deep at Anfield this season.

Lots of interesting points came out of the discussions over the last couple of days, none more so than this one. Do you literally mean that nobody will defend this deep Lando, or in a similar fashion, or is there another nuance to the comment which I'm missing. I first read the comment this morning (NZ time) and I couldn't really fathom it at the time. I've just been thinking about it in the car on the way home and you've still got me mate.

The idea that all that pace gives you is the ability to "run in behind" to quote Rafa is also a new one on me. Pace just enables you to do things quicker, whether it is reacting to a ball ricocheting around in the box, running onto a through bal, jinking away from a marker, making yourself half a yard to get a shot away or whatever.

I see Rushie says he understood it from a tactical point of view. Well he's a better man than me. He should know of course, he had a fair old turn of foot and was pretty effective against all teams whether they dended deep or high up. Curiously if my memory serves, he didn't do so well against Man Utd and they did defend high up so there you go.

No, I think Rafa left Torres out against Birmingham for an entirely different reason. I think he left him out because as Ivor the Injun pointed out he was poor at Porto, and because he thought he could get away with it. On both counts it was a fair enough decision for me. It was just uunfortunate that the previous silliness at Pompey had derailed us from a confidence point of view, so even with a team which was easily adequate we didn't come through. Hopefully now, we'll play a decent team against Wigna and get ourselves a little momentum again.

I don't buy the stuff about running in behind, Birmingham defending too deep for Torres to be effective, the other strikers being better at playing between the lines though. I don't buy it because it is utter b0ll0cks.

What I was implying is that most of the teams around Birmingham's position do not have the defensive strength to hold us to 0-0's, and thus will have to come out and defend a little higher, in order that they may score a goal.

I'd be shocked to see another team have one attacker on the field, and make the rest of their team up with defenders/defensive midfielders.

I might be wrong, but let's be honest - on another day we would have flattened Brum 8-0, and the other teams will know this.

No probs - this ^ was my reply...

You can think I'm blinkered all you want - the fact is that times change, and this "Oh it worked in 1879 when our lads beat them Zulu's 4 goals to 3" attitude is what's kept this football club in the dark for the best part of 2 decades.

The bootroom worked when Shankly introduced it BECAUSE IT WAS A NEW IDEA!!!!

Well every f*cker else has caught up and in many cases surpassed this now. So we strive to find new and improved ways of dominating the game.

Shanks didn't have it all plain sailing, and many fans back in the day thought "what's this clown doing?" They all thought that they knew best, when, of course, they didn't.

What makes you think that this rotation debate today is any different to that misguided view by certain fans in the past?

by **Ciggy** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:48 pm

mramo wrote:Rafa is very selfish, & highly impatient when it comes to team selection & decision-making with his starting 11.

Dont think so he seems to plan weeks ahead with team selections, highly impatient thats just bull he knows weeks before who is going to play which game.

What has fucked us up in the past seasons where the rotations of players that wernt good enough and escpecially not good enough for Liverpool.
Cant fault him for that though we just didnt have the money at the time to buy better players and still had some really shitty players on our books.

by **heimdall** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:55 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
peewee wrote:however rafa wants to dress it up mate and give reasons or excuses, the fact remains that this policy has failed for the last 3 seasons and judging on the loss of 4 points in the last 2 league games (against much weaker opposition) looks very much like it will fail again.

I am not into slating rafa just for the sake of it, but as a fan of many many years i feel i have the right to criticise when it is justified, and in this case mate i feel its fully justified. if his policy had worked in the league for the last 3 seasons and this was just a blip then its not a major problem, but let me remind you of the 21 point gap last season and how our fresh players never got near milan in the champions league final despite his comments about players being fresh at the end of the season.

all it is is soundbites from rafa to mask the fact that his tactics do no not work in relation to rotation and a fear that if he know changes his policy and starts winning people will know he was wrong. its about time to swallow his pride and put the team before his pride

Champions' League final stats, 2006-07:

AC Milan 2 - 1 Liverpool

Shots: 7(3) 17(4)

Corners 4 6

Offsides 3 3

Possession 54% 46%

No - we never got near them, did we, pee?

Bloody hell 17 shots and only 4 on target, thank god we bought a great striker in the summer, oh wait we're saving him for the last 15 games aren't we :veryangry

Rafa is an idiot, I can't believe he says stupid sh1t like this, loosing a lot of respect for him at the moment but if he starts being sensible and starts playing Torres every damned game he is fit then he will redeem himself, but I doubt that very much!

by **Sabre** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:56 pm

bigmick wrote:Look I'm not saying that the comment is b0ll0cks because I don't understand the notion of playing between the lines. Playing between the lines is a concept which is as old as the offside trap FFS. What is pure, unadultarated b0ll0cks is the insuation that somehow a pacy player such as a Torres, an Owen or an Henri can be completely negated if the opposition decide to defend deeper. Guys I can't believe we ar even debating this, look at what he said and tell me he was being serious? It's like saying we are only going to play Crouch if the opposition only have small defenders, or only going to play Kuyt if the opposition defenders don't run around too much.

I'm done wiht it anyhow. I can't honestly believe that people are prepared to debate such a notion. I wonder what they'll all do if Rafa releases a book and has a laugh about it in one of the chapters, how he conned the media.

Ok, I misunderstood you there.

But trust me, I'm not implying that a pacy player has to be negated, but I have to be honest, both Henry and Owen at his best were better than Torres to play against a deep defence.

It's tough saying this, because he's scoring goals for Liverpool at the moment, we all love them (I didn't before coming here) and we're all impressed. But Henry, is better to play against a deep defence, just as Torres is more unstoppable than Henry when he has spaces.

It's another case bigmick in which we agree more than it seems, believe it or not.

P.S. BTW Bad Bob is spot on in his view about the positions, nobody, not even me says Rafa doesn't make mistakes, that would be ridiculous.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:58 pm

heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
peewee wrote:however rafa wants to dress it up mate and give reasons or excuses, the fact remains that this policy has failed for the last 3 seasons and judging on the loss of 4 points in the last 2 league games (against much weaker opposition) looks very much like it will fail again.

I am not into slating rafa just for the sake of it, but as a fan of many many years i feel i have the right to criticise when it is justified, and in this case mate i feel its fully justified. if his policy had worked in the league for the last 3 seasons and this was just a blip then its not a major problem, but let me remind you of the 21 point gap last season and how our fresh players never got near milan in the champions league final despite his comments about players being fresh at the end of the season.

all it is is soundbites from rafa to mask the fact that his tactics do no not work in relation to rotation and a fear that if he know changes his policy and starts winning people will know he was wrong. its about time to swallow his pride and put the team before his pride

Champions' League final stats, 2006-07:

AC Milan 2 - 1 Liverpool

Shots: 7(3) 17(4)

Corners 4 6

Offsides 3 3

Possession 54% 46%

No - we never got near them, did we, pee?

Bloody hell 17 shots and only 4 on target, thank god we bought a great striker in the summer, oh wait we're saving him for the last 15 games aren't we
Rafa is an idiot, I can't believe he says stupid sh1t like this, loosing a lot of respect for him at the moment but if he starts being sensible and starts playing Torres every damned game he is fit then he will redeem himself, but I doubt that very much!

Oh, I'm sure he's in a cold sweat now, unable to sleep. What WILL he do without a glory-hunting sh*t stain's support?

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:11 pm

Sabre wrote:P.S. BTW Bad Bob is spot on in his view about the positions, nobody, not even me says Rafa doesn't make mistakes, that would be ridiculous.

Try telling that to Mr Griffin

by **AB's Red Army** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:18 pm

heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
peewee wrote:however rafa wants to dress it up mate and give reasons or excuses, the fact remains that this policy has failed for the last 3 seasons and judging on the loss of 4 points in the last 2 league games (against much weaker opposition) looks very much like it will fail again.

I am not into slating rafa just for the sake of it, but as a fan of many many years i feel i have the right to criticise when it is justified, and in this case mate i feel its fully justified. if his policy had worked in the league for the last 3 seasons and this was just a blip then its not a major problem, but let me remind you of the 21 point gap last season and how our fresh players never got near milan in the champions league final despite his comments about players being fresh at the end of the season.

all it is is soundbites from rafa to mask the fact that his tactics do no not work in relation to rotation and a fear that if he know changes his policy and starts winning people will know he was wrong. its about time to swallow his pride and put the team before his pride

Champions' League final stats, 2006-07:

AC Milan 2 - 1 Liverpool

Shots: 7(3) 17(4)

Corners 4 6

Offsides 3 3

Possession 54% 46%

No - we never got near them, did we, pee?

Bloody hell 17 shots and only 4 on target, thank god we bought a great striker in the summer, oh wait we're saving him for the last 15 games aren't we
Rafa is an idiot, I can't believe he says stupid sh1t like this, loosing a lot of respect for him at the moment but if he starts being sensible and starts playing Torres every damned game he is fit then he will redeem himself, but I doubt that very much!

Christ on a bike.

by **Alonso14** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:56 pm

Sabre wrote:
bigmick wrote:Look I'm not saying that the comment is b0ll0cks because I don't understand the notion of playing between the lines. Playing between the lines is a concept which is as old as the offside trap FFS. What is pure, unadultarated b0ll0cks is the insuation that somehow a pacy player such as a Torres, an Owen or an Henri can be completely negated if the opposition decide to defend deeper. Guys I can't believe we ar even debating this, look at what he said and tell me he was being serious? It's like saying we are only going to play Crouch if the opposition only have small defenders, or only going to play Kuyt if the opposition defenders don't run around too much.

I'm done wiht it anyhow. I can't honestly believe that people are prepared to debate such a notion. I wonder what they'll all do if Rafa releases a book and has a laugh about it in one of the chapters, how he conned the media.

Ok, I misunderstood you there.

But trust me, I'm not implying that a pacy player has to be negated, but I have to be honest, both Henry and Owen at his best were better than Torres to play against a deep defence.

It's tough saying this, because he's scoring goals for Liverpool at the moment, we all love them (I didn't before coming here) and we're all impressed. But Henry, is better to play against a deep defence, just as Torres is more unstoppable than Henry when he has spaces.

It's another case bigmick in which we agree more than it seems, believe it or not.

P.S. BTW Bad Bob is spot on in his view about the positions, nobody, not even me says Rafa doesn't make mistakes, that would be ridiculous.

I personally believe that Torres has more ability and talent then Michael Owen possibly ever had or will have.

No doubting Owen is a top class player, just my opinion.

by **maguskwt** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:10 pm

heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
peewee wrote:however rafa wants to dress it up mate and give reasons or excuses, the fact remains that this policy has failed for the last 3 seasons and judging on the loss of 4 points in the last 2 league games (against much weaker opposition) looks very much like it will fail again.

I am not into slating rafa just for the sake of it, but as a fan of many many years i feel i have the right to criticise when it is justified, and in this case mate i feel its fully justified. if his policy had worked in the league for the last 3 seasons and this was just a blip then its not a major problem, but let me remind you of the 21 point gap last season and how our fresh players never got near milan in the champions league final despite his comments about players being fresh at the end of the season.

all it is is soundbites from rafa to mask the fact that his tactics do no not work in relation to rotation and a fear that if he know changes his policy and starts winning people will know he was wrong. its about time to swallow his pride and put the team before his pride

Champions' League final stats, 2006-07:

AC Milan 2 - 1 Liverpool

Shots: 7(3) 17(4)

Corners 4 6

Offsides 3 3

Possession 54% 46%

No - we never got near them, did we, pee?

Bloody hell 17 shots and only 4 on target, thank god we bought a great striker in the summer, oh wait we're saving him for the last 15 games aren't we
Rafa is an idiot, I can't believe he says stupid sh1t like this, loosing a lot of respect for him at the moment but if he starts being sensible and starts playing Torres every damned game he is fit then he will redeem himself, but I doubt that very much!

errrr and you are i presume rafa's boss?

by **Leonmc0708** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:44 pm

Let it go now people ?

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