Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:16 am

andy_g wrote:i thought it might get a bit messy in here this evening. we played shíte, yes - no denying that. i think there is a very tired bunch of players right now that just haven't got the legs or the energy - (and maybe not the talent or motivation) - to make something happen. our passing has got worse and worse over the last 2 games but i don't think hodgson is coaching people into that. and at least the manager had a go at winning the game by bringing attackers on. as far as this game goes i don't think he did too much wrong, and i can't see what rafa or any other manager would or could have done differently with the players available. the bottom line is that our squad isn't big enough and probably our manager isn't good enough either. its getting fúcking boring seeing the finger of blame getting pointed left right and centre though and seeing the number of ridiculous outrage coming from all quarters. so much bullshít.

Why are they tired?

by **burjennio** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:31 am

Fair play to Stoke for making the most of the situation and puttin us to bed, we didnt deserve nowt tonight.

I think its becoming clear to everyone, I dont care what side of the fence you fall on on this forum that Roy Hodgson is not the correct man to manage Liverpool football club. One good performance against the champions did not give the man respite to return to his horrible, negative defensive tactics that, as was pointed out by almost every single poster on here over the last 3 days, played right into the direct physical style of Stoke City. How can we all point this out yet the man in charge who gets payed a substantial sum of money to prepare for these things can seem oblivious to it?

by **Sabre** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:32 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Raoul wrote:lakes and LFC2007 how many of Stoke's or Wigan's player would you buy? They made us look poor. Or is not the players or something else?

Clearly there are problems with the depth and quality of the squad, but I'm not sure that is our biggest problem right now...

I would say as a minimum that Kenwyne Jones, Etherington, Shawcross, Nzogbia, Figueroa and Rodallega are either better or equal to several players who have featured regularly for us this season. We are carried by a core of quality and experienced players, while the rest aren't truly Liverpool standard - though I believe you can get away with carrying one or two of them (e.g. Kuyt) and with a bit of luck still challenge for the top honours. Do I think the squad can perform better? Of course. I think we should reasonably expect to be three or four points better off than we are currently, and to that extent I find the criticism of the manager fair. But with so many numpties in the squad, whoever took over was going to find it difficult to get real consistency from our performances. You aren't going to dominate many games and play fluent attacking football with the likes of: Konchesky, Skrtel, Carragher, Kyrgiakos, Lucas, Poulsen, Jovanovic, Maxi, Ngog and Kuyt forming a key part of it. Even less so when your key players are injured or seriously out of form, as they were for spells last season, as they have been in spells this season. Stick enough of that lot in any top side and you'll see the same problems. That doesn't mean that individually they haven't put in good performances, or even several good performances (e.g. Lucas vs Blackburn, Bolton, Chelsea) but it means that with enough of them in our team - over 38 games - we'll struggle to find any real consistency. We swapped a dodgy manager for another dodgy manager and the squad remained effectively the same. No coincidence then that we're seeing a similar sort of outcome. We'll just have to grin and bear it until we get an opportunity to put it right.

Aren't you underrating the harm that twít and twát have done to this club?

When I read reports of players meeting Comolly asking for names that are going to come in winter so that they start listening offers or not, that reminds me the litte financial help that has come from the club to make signings as of late.

I think that a club in turmoil affects the team severely. Every club, always, everywhere. Going from challenging for a title with a record of points, to the state of football this season and the last, can't be explained just with Alonso going, or the manager's mistakes.

The main concern right now is in which hands is the club at the moment. All I wish now is they bring money to the first team, they manage to keep the important players with whatever they ask -- manager included -- and they bring a well needed stability to this club.

I don't think that all of the people we are considering not valid right now because of the low level of football, are that bad.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:22 am

The problem is that we had club turmoil in 2008-2009 but still managed put in our best ever Premier League performance. If the players and manager were "severely affected" by T&T's ownership then how is that accounted for in 2008-2009? No one surely denies that the squad is significantly weaker now than it was back then, and to some extent the previous owners are responsible for that. So too though is the previous manager in a big way, and to a lesser extent so is the current manager. That explains a fair amount in itself since quality is so important to the performance of the team. The other factor that most obviously explains our underperformance is the quality of management. Would anyone deny that the previousd and incumbent maximised their resources last season and this? Don't think so. The two together pretty adequately explain our underperformance this season and last.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:56 am

Anyone who still advocates Roy Hodgson retaining his managerial position ...is just simply not being honest , and does not have this clubs best interests at heart ..... he has just simply got to go before we start to plum new depths......the man is just completely petrified about playing away and does not have a semblance of a clue about how to reverse our fortunes ....sorry but the truth can be cold like an unforgiving mistress ........ and she will be knocking on all our doors soon enough
that performance against Stoke has rendered me virtually speechless such was the ineptitude of the display

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:28 am

Lee J wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Atleast hes finally admitting Roys shite though hey

Off to watch the X-factor have fun kids

I may have taken 4 month longer than you to come to the conclusion Roy must leave but at least I was behind him hoping he'd give it a shot. you wrote him off from the day he was rumoured.

what an utter disgrace of a fan you are, go watch X factor you

well said Lee

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:35 am

mart wrote:
metalhead wrote:because most of them are average

lol

how about YOU name 5 of our players that would walk into the starting 11 of Barcelona, Chelsea, Arsenal, Real or any of the top clubs in Europe. go on. try it, name 5. here, let me spell it out for you

F I V E.

when you stop at 3, you will see how mediocre we are.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:16 am

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:that performance against Stoke has rendered me virtually speechless such was the ineptitude of the display

Same here, I could believe what I was watching, some of our players looked like they never played in a professional match before. It was beyond pathetic Makes you wonder wtf they're doing in training.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:18 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Lee J wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Off to watch the X-factor have fun kids

I may have taken 4 month longer than you to come to the conclusion Roy must leave but at least I was behind him hoping he'd give it a shot. you wrote him off from the day he was rumoured.

what an utter disgrace of a fan you are, go watch X factor you

well said Lee

Come on fella atleast quote the whole post and dont leave the insults out, cause our manager is not up to the job just lash out at me thats a good lad :;):

,

btw have you ever been to a Liverpool match?

by **Benny The Noon** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:06 am

Ciggy wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Lee J wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Off to watch the X-factor have fun kids

I may have taken 4 month longer than you to come to the conclusion Roy must leave but at least I was behind him hoping he'd give it a shot. you wrote him off from the day he was rumoured.

what an utter disgrace of a fan you are, go watch X factor you

well said Lee

Come on fella atleast quote the whole post and dont leave the insults out, cause our manager is not up to the job just lash out at me thats a good lad ,

btw have you ever been to a Liverpool match?

Nah don't be silly - he is an Internet forum fan

by **andy_g** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:11 am

maguskwt wrote:
andy_g wrote:i thought it might get a bit messy in here this evening. we played shíte, yes - no denying that. i think there is a very tired bunch of players right now that just haven't got the legs or the energy - (and maybe not the talent or motivation) - to make something happen. our passing has got worse and worse over the last 2 games but i don't think hodgson is coaching people into that. and at least the manager had a go at winning the game by bringing attackers on. as far as this game goes i don't think he did too much wrong, and i can't see what rafa or any other manager would or could have done differently with the players available. the bottom line is that our squad isn't big enough and probably our manager isn't good enough either. its getting fúcking boring seeing the finger of blame getting pointed left right and centre though and seeing the number of ridiculous outrage coming from all quarters. so much bullshít.

Why are they tired?

because the same 14 or 15 players have played a lot of football in the last 3 weeks with weekend and mid-week games.

by **Thinkpad** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:30 am

Liverpool displayed the same dross dished out by You Know Who's team when he was here.
We can't beat or struggled to beat "lesser" teams. Some of us here seems to suffer from selective amnesia.
It is not just a Roy's problem, the way I see it all the players from the previous regime has this uncanny habit of not getting into physical challenge.
We play the dreaded "plague" one touch passing with static players for most of the match.
The training of the players in the past 3-5 years has been so successfully ingrained in the players.
They have been trained to play like this since they were signed by you know who.
I guess that's why Roy's cam out and said that he don't think the team is good enough.
You can bring the horse to the water but you cannot make it drink.
Guess it will either take a long time to undo all the damage, hence it may just be better to start from scratch.

The way I see it, it is these few things that really pulling us down.
1) Playing "plague" ball, or panic ball where you just pass the ball immediately upon contact with it. Or pass it away upon receive because an opponent is within 5 metres.
2) Players do not make runs instead just stay static so that the one touch football style will have the ball coming at you.
3) Pass it behind the players so they can stop running, turn back and remain static during attack.
4) Unable to dribble as the coaching staff don't think it is necessary for one touch football.
5) Head aerial balls to anywhere instead of directing them to your team mates.
6) Head the ball forward even though you have enough time and room to control the ball with your feet as it may cause a physical challenge.
7) Do not know the Defense of physical challenge - The Dutch should be good at this.
8) Do not know the art of getting fouled and getting the free kick - We need an Italian or this - Argentinians are just as capable.
If we can do just this 8 items listed, even with the same players we should be doing well.

by **Thinkpad** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:32 am

Double post

by **bigmick** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:49 am

Unfortunately too many of our problems are coming home to roost at the same time, and this isn't going to be the end of the malaise I fear, choose whoever is in charge.

Average players too often produce average performances, and we have too many of them. Lucas was excellent against Chelsea, medicre in the next two matches, Kuyt ditto. Maxi had a hot spell, not he's back in the deep freeze which his unsuitability for English football dictates. Konchesky is solid but unspectacular, Kyriakos and Skyrtel the same. Torres flits between looking interested and not, and it's only really Gerrard who retains the cut above look.

We've got some injuries which don't help, but the squad is unfortunately stuffed full of uninspiring players and uninspired signings. The team will IMHO finish somewhere between 4th and 8th given an even run of injuries, and this will apply regardless of who the manager is. Anyone who thinks we can replace Roy and instantly improve with this bunch of players is going to be disappointed I think.

Course we can get into the blame game, who's fault is it that we have a squad which is totally unbalanced and lacks quality in too many areas, but it doesn't really get anyone anywhere. We all have our opinions on that, you all know what mine is and I know what yours all are so there's no point really in going there.

My opinion on the manager remains as it has for some time now. I think he ought to be replaced in the interests of reunification. Infact I'll go even further, we reallyt ought to replace Roy before the end of the season simply because if/when he finishes higher than 7th, the disputes will get even worse. Hopefully the owners and whoever is advising them have already sounded out the new manager, and hopefully he can give them a name or two for January (and I think by then Dalglish will be in charge).

We have a massive rebuiding job on our hands, probably one which longer term isn't going to include Torres, possibly not Reina, and in a couple of seasons not Gerrard either. The next managerial appointment is absolutely crucial. The last absolutely top class one we had was Dalglish (and that's IMHO, I'm not trying to get people stirred up) and we desperately need the next one to be at least as good.

by **Number 9** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:49 am

We failed terribly on two of the most important but simple parts of football...passing was woeful and absolute disgrace!

And more importantly players movement off the ball was dire,no one was bothered about making themselves available,saying that Stoke done a good job at getting right at us as soon as we got the ball.
Sad to say it but we were outplayed in every aspect of the game for almost all of the 90 minutes yesterday by STOKE!

Fuc'king disgraceful!!

The win against Chelsea was great but it means nothing when loose 5 points to Wigan and Stoke!

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