Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:50 am

stmichael wrote:
Owzat wrote:What odds Rafa's first substitution is Riera off?

depends if he's been our best player or not.

Now you know Rafa doesn't work on that logic, he pussyfoots around the "key" players like Mascherano, Gerrard and Kuyt, generally not changing the back four unless he has to until late, so Aquilani had to be first to go.

I was working on the belief Lucas would start, but Rafa made sure his precious Lucas-Mascherano partnership played some part in the game and Aquilani went off to sit in a vat of cotton wool!

Somewhat better, certainly the result was as much as we expected, but to only put two past a very ordinary "lower league" as someone called them Bolton, and relying on two less than convincing goals (mishit and og) still leaves a lot of work. Despite much of the flak Kuyt gets he is still one of our few goalscorers we can field, and was again in the right place at the right time to give us the lead. Maybe he doesn't control games like Gerrard can, beat defenders or wow like Gerrard and Torres do, but he got us under way when Bolton had threatened a goal themselves.

We could have scored more, they could have scored with arguably our MOTM Kyrgiakos clearing off the line and Reina saving well 1st half when our defence opened up. Insua had a better game, contributed well and crossed for Aquilani to head back for the first, then had his wayward shot fortunately deflected in. N'Gog should have got on the scoresheet, stubbing the ball into the ground, and Lucas should have either scored or got the feck out the way and let Kuyt head in at the far post.

I'd call it a reasonable result, scoreline and performance, nothing spectacular or that impressive. Sure we're six unbeaten, but that sequence does include Bolton, Stoke and Wolves (twice) AND the next three will test us - bitters 9th (h), Arsenal 3rd (a) and Citeh 7th with THREE games in hand (a), the last of those could seriously make or break our bid for 4th. Not too surprisingly it is our longest unbeaten run in the league this season, previous most was four (wins) in a row. And again it shows how crucial the second goal is :-

PREMIERSHIP 09/10

0-1 goal : P11 W1 D3 L7 F6 A22 PTS 6 (Won 9.09%)
2+ goals : P13 W11 D2 L0 F36 A10 PTS 35 (Won 84.62%)

What odds now that Kuyt gets the winner against the bitters? (and little credit is 2bsure) His next will be his 50th goal for Liverpool, he scored both goals in our 2-1 win at their's in 07/08 and another there this season, but has yet to score against them at Anfield.

I'm with those who reckon Rafa will go back to overcautious, he almost put out a positive attacking team today - if it had included Lucas then we'd have had a CB at RB and TWO DMs against a 16th and one point off the drop zone. Next three will be a different kettle of fish

by **Johnny Boy** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:00 am

Was at the game, haven't read a lot of the comments but not the greatest afternoon I have spent against a poor but physical side.
We improved a lot when Lucas came on and could have had more goals last 20 minutes.
Mascherano was mine, and Aldo's MOTM, the greek won everything in the air and was outstanding, ideal against Bolton, I would be less confident against a footballing side like Arsenal, but he was perfect for today.
Insua is getting back to form and had a good game, and Gerrard looked more like his old self especially towards the end of the game.
I actually didn't realise Aquaman set up the goal until I had the radio on, couldn't see who it was from where I sit.
To be honest I applaud his willingness to get forward but his distribution was poor and he looked like a player out of sorts, summed up when he returned a throw in from Carra that went straight out for a Bolton throw - didn't look best happy when he was subb'd but as I say Lucas did improve our side when he came on.
Maxi did ok, some nice touches.

Couldn't understand, like many others near me, why he didn't give Pacheco a little run out at the end, surely more to gain that bringing Babel on.

3 points on a cold but sunny afternoon, some players appear to be coming back to form, other than assist in goal Aqua looked far from a £20m man (needs more time I assume), Insua & Gerrard looked a lot better, Maxi did ok, Masch and the greek both excellent.

by **redhayesy** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:40 pm

i was at the game also mate, just got back as iv'e spent the weekend at me sisters in hartford. for me the MOM was without doubt Kyrgiakos,he was brilliant! he won every ball in the air an stopped any ariel threat they may have caused us. his alround contribution was a major factor in why apart from his goal line clearence, Bolton never created anything to even worry Reina. the greek was outstanding! closely followed by our 'little cheif' masha, he was also back to his very best today for me. again his alround play was inspiring for the rest of the team, his tackling was no nonsence as usual but also his urgency to set us going foward was brilliant to watch.

stevie had a good game but i thought he was far more effective in the second half when he seemed to have a free role, his vision of passing an alround contribution was far more effective as the game went on, great piece of skill he showed towards the end had us all in the main stand loving every second of it an gutted also he couldn't find a finish to match it, he was more up with the pace of the game,than he has been even before his injury,he displayed a great captains performance.

just to finally add, if anyone on this forum has slagged off Rafa for not playing Aquilani more often, then please think again- the player is still not FULLY FIT! please believe me. his performance was a mixture of lack of confidence,fitness an at times looked like he was wearing concrete boots! he was well short of the play an his passing at times was slow,an never found his man,he lost the ball a few times in critical midfield play, a better team might have punished us more. i do rate Aquilani, an do believe he will come good, but yesterday proved Raffa has been totally right in either not picking him from the start, or only useing him as a sub. Maxi i thought did well when he came on, babel got stick for his attitude again an also his fecking green boots! BTW folks also from where i was in the ground i didn't hear ONE person shout abuse at Raffa, no anti's where i was which was brilliant, it was more of supporting him, as he chose an attacking line up, an questioning the players themselves as for commitment etc, that's the mood around match goers from what iv'e heard - it's about getting behind the team through thick an thin, the one player who did get some stick near me was Riera, some thought he didn't show enough urgency or commitment,but got better as the game went on.

icing on the cake for me was having a chat with Alan Kennedy before the game outside the V.I.P lounge, what a legend he his an a really nice bloke aswell,spoke for about 10 mins great to listen an share a couple of fav times in my life in his era. great display from the Lads an i was inpressed with the alround attitude they showed. well played red men!

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:59 pm

redhayesy wrote:i was at the game also mate, just got back as iv'e spent the weekend at me sisters in hartford. for me the MOM was without doubt Kyrgiakos,he was brilliant! he won every ball in the air an stopped any ariel threat they may have caused us. his alround contribution was a major factor in why apart from his goal line clearence, Bolton never created anything to even worry Reina. the greek was outstanding! closely followed by our 'little cheif' masha, he was also back to his very best today for me. again his alround play was inspiring for the rest of the team, his tackling was no nonsence as usual but also his urgency to set us going foward was brilliant to watch.

stevie had a good game but i thought he was far more effective in the second half when he seemed to have a free role, his vision of passing an alround contribution was far more effective as the game went on, great piece of skill he showed towards the end had us all in the main stand loving every second of it an gutted also he couldn't find a finish to match it, he was more up with the pace of the game,than he has been even before his injury,he displayed a great captains performance.

just to finally add, if anyone on this forum has slagged off Rafa for not playing Aquilani more often, then please think again- the player is still not FULLY FIT! please believe me. his performance was a mixture of lack of confidence,fitness an at times looked like he was wearing concrete boots! he was well short of the play an his passing at times was slow,an never found his man,he lost the ball a few times in critical midfield play, a better team might have punished us more. i do rate Aquilani, an do believe he will come good, but yesterday proved Raffa has been totally right in either not picking him from the start, or only useing him as a sub. Maxi i thought did well when he came on, babel got stick for his attitude again an also his fecking green boots! BTW folks also from where i was in the ground i didn't hear ONE person shout abuse at Raffa, no anti's where i was which was brilliant, it was more of supporting him, as he chose an attacking line up, an questioning the players themselves as for commitment etc, that's the mood around match goers from what iv'e heard - it's about getting behind the team through thick an thin, the one player who did get some stick near me was Riera, some thought he didn't show enough urgency or commitment,but got better as the game went on.

icing on the cake for me was having a chat with Alan Kennedy before the game outside the V.I.P lounge, what a legend he his an a really nice bloke aswell,spoke for about 10 mins great to listen an share a couple of fav times in my life in his era. great display from the Lads an i was inpressed with the alround attitude they showed. well played red men!

Good post and I agree Red ,Kyrgiakos is certainly proving me wrong ,he was outstanding today,and his positioning has improved 100% whether that's mainly down to the steadying influence of Carragher only time will tell ,but he is starting to exert an air of confidence and its having a marked effect on our defence ...

I still expect him to be usurped by a more mobile exponent when faced with the more adventurous and pacey strikers in the Premiership ,but as a considerable wall against the less tactical teams ie Stoke his inclusion should be a given

by **fivecups** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:13 pm

redhayesy wrote:just to finally add, if anyone on this forum has slagged off Rafa for not playing Aquilani more often, then please think again- the player is still not FULLY FIT! please believe me. his performance was a mixture of lack of confidence,fitness an at times looked like he was wearing concrete boots! he was well short of the play an his passing at times was slow,an never found his man,he lost the ball a few times in critical midfield play, a better team might have punished us more. i do rate Aquilani, an do believe he will come good, but yesterday proved Raffa has been totally right in either not picking him from the start, or only useing him as a sub.

Nice match report Haysey. Interesting take on Aquilani, it certainly make sense. I'm convinced his confidence is low so I don't think we can judge him yet. Like others have said, there are signs of quality but it's likely to be some time before we see how good he's going to be.

We did seem better when Lucas came on. Why do you think that was? It runs contrary to most of the opinions on this forum (including mine) that Lucas and Masch shouldn't start together.

I'd still like to see Aquilani and Masch against Everton but I'm expecting Lucas to start.

by **fivecups** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:18 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:I still expect him to be usurped by a more mobile exponent when faced with the more adventurous and pacey strikers in the Premiership ,but as a considerable wall against the less tactical teams ie Stoke his inclusion should be a given

I think he should be an automatic starter while he maintains his current form. Our defense hasn't felt this secure all season.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:33 pm

fivecups wrote:I think he should be an automatic starter while he maintains his current form. Our defense hasn't felt this secure all season.

I think he should be a definite starter against the Bitter's ,but I don't expect him to keep his place against the likes of Arsenal, as he would be cruelly exposed for pace against the likes of Walcott and Co seriously damaging the confidence he has built up with his recent performances .

by **fivecups** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:01 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
fivecups wrote:I think he should be an automatic starter while he maintains his current form. Our defense hasn't felt this secure all season.

I think he should be a definite starter against the Bitter's ,but I don't expect him to keep his place against the likes of Arsenal, as he would be cruelly exposed for pace against the likes of Walcott and Co seriously damaging the confidence he has built up with his recent performances .

I think the risk of changing the CB partnership is greater than Kyrgiakos getting outpaced. Our defense has been more assured in the last 3 games than it's been all season so I wouldn't change it now. We finally have a defender who can head the ball and take control of the box. Never know, they could be the new Hyypia and Henchoz.

by **Johnny Boy** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:32 pm

fivecups wrote:
redhayesy wrote:just to finally add, if anyone on this forum has slagged off Rafa for not playing Aquilani more often, then please think again- the player is still not FULLY FIT! please believe me. his performance was a mixture of lack of confidence,fitness an at times looked like he was wearing concrete boots! he was well short of the play an his passing at times was slow,an never found his man,he lost the ball a few times in critical midfield play, a better team might have punished us more. i do rate Aquilani, an do believe he will come good, but yesterday proved Raffa has been totally right in either not picking him from the start, or only useing him as a sub.

Nice match report Haysey. Interesting take on Aquilani, it certainly make sense. I'm convinced his confidence is low so I don't think we can judge him yet. Like others have said, there are signs of quality but it's likely to be some time before we see how good he's going to be.

We did seem better when Lucas came on. Why do you think that was? It runs contrary to most of the opinions on this forum (including mine) that Lucas and Masch shouldn't start together.

I'd still like to see Aquilani and Masch against Everton but I'm expecting Lucas to start.

My own personal viewpoint was he just looked hungrier for the ball, he offered himself immediatley and there was some nice midfield interplay, Gerrard moved slightly further forward.
It was kind of surprising as I have never liked the Mascherano and Lucas pairing personally, but purely because he made himself available more, Aqualani didn't look like he really wanted the ball or lacked confidence in receiving and distributing it.
The fact is we played better when Lucas came on.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:49 pm

fivecups wrote:I think the risk of changing the CB partnership is greater than Kyrgiakos getting outpaced. Our defense has been more assured in the last 3 games than it's been all season so I wouldn't change it now. We finally have a defender who can head the ball and take control of the box. Never know, they could be the new Hyypia and Henchoz.

A fair assessment fella and I can respect your reservations ,but Id still take Henchoz over Skrtel any day of the week ,Stephane Henchoz was absolute quality plus he acted as our second goalie (Ask Henry )

by **stmichael** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:55 pm

In the end I thought we deserved it. Second half I thought we were excellent. First half we were dodgy to say the least.

by **redhayesy** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:00 pm

fivecups wrote:
redhayesy wrote:just to finally add, if anyone on this forum has slagged off Rafa for not playing Aquilani more often, then please think again- the player is still not FULLY FIT! please believe me. his performance was a mixture of lack of confidence,fitness an at times looked like he was wearing concrete boots! he was well short of the play an his passing at times was slow,an never found his man,he lost the ball a few times in critical midfield play, a better team might have punished us more. i do rate Aquilani, an do believe he will come good, but yesterday proved Raffa has been totally right in either not picking him from the start, or only useing him as a sub.

Nice match report Haysey. Interesting take on Aquilani, it certainly make sense. I'm convinced his confidence is low so I don't think we can judge him yet. Like others have said, there are signs of quality but it's likely to be some time before we see how good he's going to be.

We did seem better when Lucas came on. Why do you think that was? It runs contrary to most of the opinions on this forum (including mine) that Lucas and Masch shouldn't start together.

I'd still like to see Aquilani and Masch against Everton but I'm expecting Lucas to start.

thanks mate, an yes i do agree that lucas & masha shouldn't start together from now till the end of the season, regardless of who we play! i really think an believe masha is more than capable of providing any cover we need in front of the back four. also he showed yesterday that he was in control more across the pitch,which also gave him more freedom to provide better passes,an switch the attack down both flanks,he was that good yesterday in the role that it gave others the urgency to get foward quicker also.

i do agree that the midfield looked more solid when Lucas came on,an although i'm not his biggest fan,he did ensure that any time Bolton one the first ball in midfield, he made sure they didn't win the second one, he has got stuck in more just lately which is brilliant to see, so credit to him for that- i just wish his contribution of the ball was better at times an that is why he may loose concentration an give away silly free-kicks etc, which we really can't afford to give away against the likes of the bitters, so for that reason as well as it is too negative playing masha & Lucas from the start, i really hope Raffa sticks with the same side an formation as it was great progress yesterday in our alround approach an play.

by **redhayesy** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:10 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
redhayesy wrote:i was at the game also mate, just got back as iv'e spent the weekend at me sisters in hartford. for me the MOM was without doubt Kyrgiakos,he was brilliant! he won every ball in the air an stopped any ariel threat they may have caused us. his alround contribution was a major factor in why apart from his goal line clearence, Bolton never created anything to even worry Reina. the greek was outstanding! closely followed by our 'little cheif' masha, he was also back to his very best today for me. again his alround play was inspiring for the rest of the team, his tackling was no nonsence as usual but also his urgency to set us going foward was brilliant to watch.

stevie had a good game but i thought he was far more effective in the second half when he seemed to have a free role, his vision of passing an alround contribution was far more effective as the game went on, great piece of skill he showed towards the end had us all in the main stand loving every second of it an gutted also he couldn't find a finish to match it, he was more up with the pace of the game,than he has been even before his injury,he displayed a great captains performance.

just to finally add, if anyone on this forum has slagged off Rafa for not playing Aquilani more often, then please think again- the player is still not FULLY FIT! please believe me. his performance was a mixture of lack of confidence,fitness an at times looked like he was wearing concrete boots! he was well short of the play an his passing at times was slow,an never found his man,he lost the ball a few times in critical midfield play, a better team might have punished us more. i do rate Aquilani, an do believe he will come good, but yesterday proved Raffa has been totally right in either not picking him from the start, or only useing him as a sub. Maxi i thought did well when he came on, babel got stick for his attitude again an also his fecking green boots! BTW folks also from where i was in the ground i didn't hear ONE person shout abuse at Raffa, no anti's where i was which was brilliant, it was more of supporting him, as he chose an attacking line up, an questioning the players themselves as for commitment etc, that's the mood around match goers from what iv'e heard - it's about getting behind the team through thick an thin, the one player who did get some stick near me was Riera, some thought he didn't show enough urgency or commitment,but got better as the game went on.

icing on the cake for me was having a chat with Alan Kennedy before the game outside the V.I.P lounge, what a legend he his an a really nice bloke aswell,spoke for about 10 mins great to listen an share a couple of fav times in my life in his era. great display from the Lads an i was inpressed with the alround attitude they showed. well played red men!

Good post and I agree Red ,Kyrgiakos is certainly proving me wrong ,he was outstanding today,and his positioning has improved 100% whether that's mainly down to the steadying influence of Carragher only time will tell ,but he is starting to exert an air of confidence and its having a marked effect on our defence ...

I still expect him to be usurped by a more mobile exponent when faced with the more adventurous and pacey strikers in the Premiership ,but as a considerable wall against the less tactical teams ie Stoke his inclusion should be a given

thanks mate, an it's great to post with people after a game that are looking at the positives also with good insight about how other games may effect our formation an tactics. for me i'd stick to the same line-up an formation against the bitters,as their ariel threat is an area where Kyrgiakos on yesterdays performance would more than cope with them.

by **bunglemark2** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:50 pm

...'cept for that little bell-end Cahill.....that phucker scores from anywhere....

by **beng** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:14 pm

Rate players' performance in game versus Bolton Wanderers
http://www.voteplayers.com/Matches....42.aspx

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