Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

I couldn't really understand the logic of taking Torres off to be honest, he was posing  a constant worry to Arsenal and as soon as he went off you could see their defenders being far more confident in coming forwards. Voronin is absolute garbage, what is Rafa's issue with Crouch, it must be a personal grudge. To put Voronin on instead of Crouch makes no sense to me.

[puroresu]

Alonso really has lost form.  he used to make sure we kept the ball and his range of passing was superb.  Nowdays he gives it away far to often.

[HacksawJimDuggin]

First half last night we were good but 2nd half I was sitting thinking 'we can't hold out for the entire half' but we did and credit to the boys for doing so. We were a little lucky with bentnar's f*ck up (he was our best player when he came on) and the penalty (stone waller IMO) but you need luck in these games.

I though Sami was immense last night (We need to sign him up for another year) and I also thought Aurelio and Mascha did well for us.

Roll on Tuesday night at Anfield. Think we go for an early goal to settle everything down and then pick them off the counter attacking football after that. 

[Kukilon]

I'm also amazed over how lazy Voronin was when he came on. disgrace. Worse is that I didn't expect that from him.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Voronin has missed 16 games so he's bound to be rusty, he was hardly grease lightning when he was fully fit, so for people to have a go at him is beyond the joke really. It's a problem many have with him, I don't rate him and think he's a waste of time and wages, but I won't complain about him for last night, he had five minutes on the pitch. Many professionals will tell you that when you come on as a sub, it takes you five or ten minutes to get used to the pace of the game anyway. Also what is he expected to do when the ball is in our half, he was brought on as a forward whos job it was to try and play on the break, I didn't see Torres track back and he's not being slaughtered. Many times Torres just allowed the Arsenal back four to bring the ball out but again he's not slaughtered, so it's unfair to pick holes and have a go at Voronin.

Fair enough he shouldn't be at this club and he certainly shouldn't be picked ahead of Crouch, but he didn't do anything wrong last night.

[heimdall]

Voronin has missed 16 games so he's bound to be rusty, he was hardly grease lightning when he was fully fit, so for people to have a go at him is beyond the joke really. It's a problem many have with him, I don't rate him and think he's a waste of time and wages, but I won't complain about him for last night, he had five minutes on the pitch. Many professionals will tell you that when you come on as a sub, it takes you five or ten minutes to get used to the pace of the game anyway. Also what is he expected to do when the ball is in our half, he was brought on as a forward whos job it was to try and play on the break, I didn't see Torres track back and he's not being slaughtered. Many times Torres just allowed the Arsenal back four to bring the ball out but again he's not slaughtered, so it's unfair to pick holes and have a go at Voronin.

Fair enough he shouldn't be at this club and he certainly shouldn't be picked ahead of Crouch, but he didn't do anything wrong last night.

I agree with you on that point, I didn't think he did too bad either, I just thought that Crouch or Torres would have been that little bit quicker and would have worried the Arsenal back four a little bit more than Voronin did, but not too worry we got the score draw so all good.

[Sean]

Nothing much to add except......

Is Agger gone for the season ? and Finnan's attacking force on the right flank was missed last night.  Carra's a great defender but lacks Finnans attacking qualities and crosses.

[heimdall]

Not related but this news item made me laugh,

"Mikel Arteta's future at Everton may be in doubt after his agent claimed he would be in the Spain team if he played for a bigger club."
   

[tommycockles]

Voronin has missed 16 games so he's bound to be rusty, he was hardly grease lightning when he was fully fit, so for people to have a go at him is beyond the joke really. It's a problem many have with him, I don't rate him and think he's a waste of time and wages, but I won't complain about him for last night, he had five minutes on the pitch. Many professionals will tell you that when you come on as a sub, it takes you five or ten minutes to get used to the pace of the game anyway. Also what is he expected to do when the ball is in our half, he was brought on as a forward whos job it was to try and play on the break, I didn't see Torres track back and he's not being slaughtered. Many times Torres just allowed the Arsenal back four to bring the ball out but again he's not slaughtered, so it's unfair to pick holes and have a go at Voronin.

Fair enough he shouldn't be at this club and he certainly shouldn't be picked ahead of Crouch, but he didn't do anything wrong last night.

I agree with you on that point, I didn't think he did too bad either, I just thought that Crouch or Torres would have been that little bit quicker and would have worried the Arsenal back four a little bit more than Voronin did, but not too worry we got the score draw so all good.

i don't agree, no offence but slating him is completely warranted. He only had 5 mins to play, to compare this to Torres is ridiculous, Torres has to pace himself, in any way Torres CONSTANTLY chased around their back line making them make the pass. If you don't agree go back a watch it again. Vorinin was a lazy liability, i don't give a if he was on crutches he should still be giving it all for the mere 5 mins he was on the pitch- HE DIDN'T! He put us under a lot of pressure as their line could move up as far as they liked as he was no threat in attack or defence.

At that stage of the game if you can't offer an attacking threat then chip in and help defend so at least they have to play it around their back line rather than having a free run past him.

Sorry but on this occasion you're wrong- Vorinin should be ashamed!

[Yari7]

We were average. The lads did well to grind out a result with a little bit of luck and good defending, but this luck has to run out some time soon.

We showed nothing going forward at all. If we play like this at Anfeild again next week, Arsenal will punish us. They have shown that they are capable of creating chances and getting in behind our defence.

We need to be solid in defence but with more of an attacking threat at Anfield.

[heimdall]

Voronin has missed 16 games so he's bound to be rusty, he was hardly grease lightning when he was fully fit, so for people to have a go at him is beyond the joke really. It's a problem many have with him, I don't rate him and think he's a waste of time and wages, but I won't complain about him for last night, he had five minutes on the pitch. Many professionals will tell you that when you come on as a sub, it takes you five or ten minutes to get used to the pace of the game anyway. Also what is he expected to do when the ball is in our half, he was brought on as a forward whos job it was to try and play on the break, I didn't see Torres track back and he's not being slaughtered. Many times Torres just allowed the Arsenal back four to bring the ball out but again he's not slaughtered, so it's unfair to pick holes and have a go at Voronin.

Fair enough he shouldn't be at this club and he certainly shouldn't be picked ahead of Crouch, but he didn't do anything wrong last night.

I agree with you on that point, I didn't think he did too bad either, I just thought that Crouch or Torres would have been that little bit quicker and would have worried the Arsenal back four a little bit more than Voronin did, but not too worry we got the score draw so all good.

i don't agree, no offence but slating him is completely warranted. He only had 5 mins to play, to compare this to Torres is ridiculous, Torres has to pace himself, in any way Torres CONSTANTLY chased around their back line making them make the pass. If you don't agree go back a watch it again. Vorinin was a lazy liability, i don't give a if he was on crutches he should still be giving it all for the mere 5 mins he was on the pitch- HE DIDN'T! He put us under a lot of pressure as their line could move up as far as they liked as he was no threat in attack or defence.

At that stage of the game if you can't offer an attacking threat then chip in and help defend so at least they have to play it around their back line rather than having a free run past him.

Sorry but on this occasion you're wrong- Vorinin should be ashamed!

We are agreeing aren't we

I also think Crouch and Torres would have been better but I thought Voronin did ok for the 5 minutes he was on, although yes he could have done more but he didn't stick out as being that bad, maybe I was just too damned nervous that last 5 minutes to watch him too closely.

[Bad Bob]

It's an interesting one.  I think Crouch would have held the ball up better but would have had a harder time closing their defenders down when we didn't have possession.  He also would have had a harder time running the channels to lash onto out balls over the top.  I think Rafa saw that Torres was tiring and wanted someone with a bit more pace and mobility than Crouch to do the pressing.  That said, I think Voronin could have worked much harder than he did.

[PhiLFC]

Is it me, am I blind but I didn't even notice Alonso on the pitch until they subbed him.

Anyway I thought it was an excellent result considering IMHO we were only decent for a while after our goal the rest of the time we looked knackered.  Carra was supreme and Kuyt's work ethic is second to none... I thought Stevie was ordinary and Sammi looked a bit slow.  We were lucky

The gunners are a superb footballing side and no doubt about it but they were arrogant and paid for it.  Other than that I was a bit pished and getting it in the ear off a load of scum fans.

[maguskwt]

just accept my belief about kuyt and be done with it

ok... peewee hates kuyt... peewee believes he's !... even if he scores 100 goals in a season peewee still believes he's ... that's because he traps the ball like peewee's great grand aunt and his first touch is poor... know this everyone and be done with it because peewee will never ever love kuyt... 

btw the navy and ladyboy thing is just funny... 

[Owzat]

As there are enough people bashing Kuyt and Babel i'm going to have a go at Vorinin. He's bought on for the last 5 minutes and asked to do a job- which he did for about 30 seconds and then he must have been knackered as he then never chased down one ball or player. There were times where he could have dug in a bit more and stopped Arsenals last 5 minutes of surges but instead he just let them run past him and made no attempt to abtruct/stop/slow down/ pass- he's fu.cking useless and really did my head in at a time when we needed to tighten things up. He should watch Torres and be ashamed of himself!!

I was furious. When a player comes on for 5 minutes he should cover every inch of the pitch. He was pacing himself, jogging back etc.

If I was in that dressing room after the game I'd have decked him - not joking, I really would have. An absolute disgrace to the profession.

To be fair to Voronin he's been out and how stupid would it have been to do what I recall Owen doing which is coming on, going hell for leather a few times, and then limping off again? I hope he starts in the league game, if he shows a lack of effort in that then maybe it would be fairer to criticise him than for a few minutes in a game maybe he shouldn't have been in the squad for.

He may well be on his way in the summer, a lot does depend on how much the manager has to spend. Personally I believe he has to sell a few players first like Crouch and anyone else who we can con a few million out of. Like with the Fowler situation before we'd maybe get more value out of Voronin by keeping him than by getting rid of him. But Rafa won't want to be short of attacking options and so replacing both Crouch and Voronin might take too much money, unless a quality bosman comes up or a bargain