Liverpool FC Forum

by **Number 9** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 pm

made in UK wrote:
Owzat wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
roberto green wrote:He is nether going to be a match winner is he?

He just won us the game against Spurs didn't he? ....oops

Nah, he never wins us games nor does he score goals, those who don't have a hate-on for Kuyt are imagining things when he does.

He's one of few players in our side who works hard in attack and defence, AND scores goals AND creates goals AND wins games. But because his first touch isn't always great and he doesn't go past the full-back like wingers who don't score goals or get as many assists do, then he's criticised. He just doesn't get hero worship, I mean ffs Skrtel got worshipped more back at the time when he was thundering into tackles (even though he gave away fouls a lot) than Kuyt does full-stop. Mascherano wins the ball and gets cult status, Kuyt contributes more to the team and is wanted out. I'd like to see the much quoted Kerry stat about Lucas extended to show how many goals and assists Mascherano contributes, or to how many assists, goals and how many own goals, errors leading to free-kicks, penalties and directly to goals, Mascherano, Insua, Skrtel, Agger, and half the team are culpable for. Yet Lucas is singled out, just like Kuyt is.

We've scored 40 league goals this season, one an og, but Kuyt is second top scorer on seven behind Torres (12) with only Gerrard and Benayoun close to him with both on five. We could switch formation to two up front but Kuyt's one of the two that would have to play up front, but the likes of Riera, Mascherano, Lucas, Aurelio, Degen, Aquilani and Rodriguez have a handful of Premiership goals between them yet some want Kuyt dropped in favour of packing the midfield with X players from that little lot as if that will fix our problem.

For all the whinging you do about the boss it suprises me how much you battle Lucas' and Kuyt's corners. Both these players epitomise Rafa's methodologies where he demands energy and tenacity from his 'grinding machine'.

Yet the problem with these two players specifically is, neither have the technical or natural ability that differentiates an average player from a quality one.

Mascha is a better tackler and defensive midfielder than Lucas thats why he's in the team. Lucas is the wrong type of player to be playing alongside the Argie and this has gone some way to our disastrous season thus far. Had Gerrard been moved back into the engine room earlier in the season, when it was patently obvious the Lucas/Mascha combo wasn't working we'd of picked up a few more points than we now have currently IMHO.

As for Kuyt its as clear as mud he is limited, but what else is just as clear, he's a Rafa type player who is never dropped. So when you critise the gaffer next time, have a think about the two fella's your backing now and the irony in your posts.

TOLD Kerry babe! :nod

by **akumaface** » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:41 pm

Kuyt works very hard and get his share of goals. He is not pretty as you can consider him a garbage man type player. He scores on rebound and close range. You need to have luck but at the same time, he does get into good position with his instinct. He will never be a David Silva or Robben. We have to accept that as he is effective in his own way. As for Lucas, it is another story, he does play hard but provide little of anything else. It is worth a try with Maxi pairing with Mascherano in the middle. As it seems Maxi is much better moving forward and can at least hold onto the ball.

by **red till i die!!** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:30 am

i feel he gets way more games than he deserves.
his work rate we all know is second to none and i dont doubt that he is a true red and deserves to be at lfc.but he is very limited and obvious.constantly makes mistakes and bad decisions.
he is no more than a squad player and would be much more effective in coming off the bench late on too keep us applying pressure while steadying the ship.
he's imo far too inconsistent of a player to be starting every game.one week he's the dogs bo!!ox for the next 3 he's the dogs sh!te. he is our 2nd highest scorer this year with 9 behind torres;s 12 but with twice the amount of games played and its partly due to the fact that when torres is injured we dont try anything else.
i think we'd see a better kuyt as a regular sub!!

by **shawnk** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:59 am

His skills are limited as we all know it. He's a jack of all trades and I rather we have a specialist on that position even though statistically shows that he's the second top scorer. That's a fact yes but with a specialist in that position, who knows we may have produced more goals?
Why not give specialst like Pacheco a try out? Or why not sub out Kuyt when Babel was coming in yesterday (game against Bolton) instead of Ngog (he did have a poor game but no doubt he has improved a lot).

EDIT: A better sub example would be to replace Kuyt with Maxi instead of Riera.

by **Penguins** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:01 am

Totally agree but unfortunately it is never going to happen.¨
As soon as Kuyt pokes in a ball in the 6 yard box, from someone elses work, every 3rd/4th game everyone forgets what Kuyt accomplish the rest of the time. Besides running not much else.

by **akumaface** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:50 am

I totally agreed that he should not have started every game as he looks tired at times. I'm all for giving chances to players like Pacheco and was hoping for it to happen last night but when Babel came on, I was kind of disappointed. Rafa is just too stubburn sometimes. He simply goes with the players he had trusted most regardless of his performance. We can either afford to have one of Kuyt or Lucas on the field and not both. We need more creative player.

by **Owzat** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:21 am

Penguins wrote:Totally agree but unfortunately it is never going to happen.¨
As soon as Kuyt pokes in a ball in the 6 yard box, from someone elses work, every 3rd/4th game everyone forgets what Kuyt accomplish the rest of the time. Besides running not much else.

And doesn't stop you trotting out the same old peewee Kuyt-bashing, the man will never be good enough in some people's eyes even if he scores every game.

The system we play would struggle with an out and out winger, because we don't get enough bodies in the box and have a lack of goalscorers. For all his faults, which get highlighted and blown out of proportion more than the limitations of other players, he gets in the right place and scores - and gives their defence something to think about and have to counter. Dropping a goalscorer would be daft, imagining someone else could come in and MIGHT contribute more sums up the limitations of the thinking on these boards re players like Kuyt.

This is one player I back Rafa on, he may miss chances but he also tucks enough away and creates enough to deserve his place. Riera can look pretty week in, week out and not return half as much.

Isn't it great to have the same argument week in, week out with absolutely no way of proving right or wrong (there is no right answer, just a whole load of tosh to criticise one of our best contributors)

As for needing "more creative players", we also need someone to stick any chances in the net and yet Kuyt has scored more than Riera, Maxi, Benayoun, Babel and Aquilani put together. Without Torres and with only N'Gog and Gerrard available who do score goals, you lot would remove our second top scorer

Clever the lot of you :bowdown

Shame you talk out your backsides

by **Owzat** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:29 am

49th Liverpool goal against Bolton, I'm tipping him to get his 50th against the bitters. I wonder if Gerrard knows Kuyt is on 49 and if we got a penalty if he'd let Kuyt take it. It's not as if Kuyt's last penalty - retaken or the first - weren't quality

by **shawnk** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:11 pm

It's no wonder why Rafa can play certain average players week in week out, seems like following statistic is the way on players selection especially when those other players weren't given the chance to play to improve their statistic. By those statistic, I hope he doesn't think buying 3 more Kuyt to replace the midfield is good as Kuyt(s) can work hard and do everything other than creativity/skill.

by **Penguins** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:18 am

Owzat wrote:
Penguins wrote:Totally agree but unfortunately it is never going to happen.¨
As soon as Kuyt pokes in a ball in the 6 yard box, from someone elses work, every 3rd/4th game everyone forgets what Kuyt accomplish the rest of the time. Besides running not much else.

And doesn't stop you trotting out the same old peewee Kuyt-bashing, the man will never be good enough in some people's eyes even if he scores every game.

The system we play would struggle with an out and out winger, because we don't get enough bodies in the box and have a lack of goalscorers. For all his faults, which get highlighted and blown out of proportion more than the limitations of other players, he gets in the right place and scores - and gives their defence something to think about and have to counter. Dropping a goalscorer would be daft, imagining someone else could come in and MIGHT contribute more sums up the limitations of the thinking on these boards re players like Kuyt.

This is one player I back Rafa on, he may miss chances but he also tucks enough away and creates enough to deserve his place. Riera can look pretty week in, week out and not return half as much.

Isn't it great to have the same argument week in, week out with absolutely no way of proving right or wrong (there is no right answer, just a whole load of tosh to criticise one of our best contributors)

As for needing "more creative players", we also need someone to stick any chances in the net and yet Kuyt has scored more than Riera, Maxi, Benayoun, Babel and Aquilani put together. Without Torres and with only N'Gog and Gerrard available who do score goals, you lot would remove our second top scorer

Clever the lot of you Shame you talk out your backsides

Must be yourself you are talking about then.

At least Riera can make something happen on his own and help the team build up the attacking play.

Kuyt just waits in the 6 yard box and scores from a mishit every now and then. What does he offer in our build up play and penetration? Jack **** which means it's like playing with one player less. It is all fine if we are all over a team to have such a luxury player since others will do the ream hard work in football(make things happen with the ball).

He has no pace, no 1st touch, not a good finisher by a mile, can't dribble, no creativity. No matter what other attributes that is supposed to be an attacking playing for a top club???

Never I say.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:24 am

Penguins wrote:Kuyt just waits in the 6 yard box and scores from a mishit every now and then.

Kinell, son, do you even watch us play? Kuyt can be accused of many things but a loiterer in the 6-yard box ain't one of them. The guy covers virtually every blade of grass in the oppo half game in, game out FFS.

IMO, Kuyt was deserving of criticism earlier in the season but in the last 3 games he's come up with 3 goals--two of them match winners. If I were a Kuyt basher round about now I'd be zipping my lip and getting my head down, not tilting at windmills.

by **made in UK** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:28 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Penguins wrote:Kuyt just waits in the 6 yard box and scores from a mishit every now and then.

Kinell, son, do you even watch us play? Kuyt can be accused of many things but a loiterer in the 6-yard box ain't one of them. The guy covers virtually every blade of grass in the oppo half game in, game out FFS.

IMO, Kuyt was deserving of criticism earlier in the season but in the last 3 games he's come up with 3 goals--two of them match winners. If I were a Kuyt basher round about now I'd be zipping my lip and getting my head down, not tilting at windmills.

Why is it called "bashing" when people are giving their opinion of him?

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:36 am

made in UK wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Penguins wrote:Kuyt just waits in the 6 yard box and scores from a mishit every now and then.

Kinell, son, do you even watch us play? Kuyt can be accused of many things but a loiterer in the 6-yard box ain't one of them. The guy covers virtually every blade of grass in the oppo half game in, game out FFS.

IMO, Kuyt was deserving of criticism earlier in the season but in the last 3 games he's come up with 3 goals--two of them match winners. If I were a Kuyt basher round about now I'd be zipping my lip and getting my head down, not tilting at windmills.

Why is it called "bashing" when people are giving their opinion of him?

Bashing is a form of opinion so there's no contradiction. It simply means unduly harsh criticism, which applies in spades in this case. :;):

by **made in UK** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:27 am

I never said you was contradicting what you said Bob, I just asked why its labelled bashing all the time and you answered.

Kuyt: "he runs around like Forest Gump on acid".(Barry, 09)

:laugh:

I suppose this is bashing but its frigging funny as feck

by **Penguins** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:38 am

Bad Bob wrote:
Penguins wrote:Kuyt just waits in the 6 yard box and scores from a mishit every now and then.

Kinell, son, do you even watch us play? Kuyt can be accused of many things but a loiterer in the 6-yard box ain't one of them. The guy covers virtually every blade of grass in the oppo half game in, game out FFS.

IMO, Kuyt was deserving of criticism earlier in the season but in the last 3 games he's come up with 3 goals--two of them match winners. If I were a Kuyt basher round about now I'd be zipping my lip and getting my head down, not tilting at windmills.

Ok, so let's forget he has been **** besides the last 3 games in the whole season. And still gets picked week in a and week out.
Let's forget he scores penalties that other players create.
Let's forget he just can't lead the line as he has showed so many times by now.
Let's forget he missed 2 sitters vs spurs.
Let's forget his goal vs Bolton was a mishit that didn't miss the net cause he was thankfully too close to the goalline.

He is a very limited player who the rest of the team has to carry offensivly unless it is to poke it in from 6 yards.
He can never turn a defender which means he is a non threat outside the box.
If that is the quality you are satisfied we will never win.
Crouch was always the better striker of the 2 and still Kuyt was always picked ahead.
The sooner we get rid of that kind of player from our starting lineup the sooner we will win something again.

I am still counting the trophies we'we won since he arrived 2006 just after we had won the FA cup. Coincidence...
I think not.

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