Liverpool FC Forum

by **HacksawJimDuggin** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:00 pm

stmichael wrote:
redmikey wrote:st mike i was watchin the match last night with a lad who has seen alot of dutch football, and he said that dirk is doing a very different job to the one he did in holland as he was more of a floating striker coming into the box late but not doing all the donkey work he is doing now

I personally think he is under instructions to work the wings and drop back almost into midfield so as not to let the opposition time to settle.

Has he played upfront for us as an out and out striker yet ? and if he did how did he get on?

He's performing like a player who's playing in what is the most physically intensive league in Europe after spending almost all of his career in Holland where he played, at most, four or five tough games a season. He needs to get through this season and he'll be okay next year.

Great point.

I think Rafa has seen the guys worth ethic and has played him off of crouch to, as Mike says, work the channels and allow Crouch to stay central. I love Kuyt's directness and I am convinced he will be a great signing for us. He is picking the ball up 30-40 yards away from goal and out in the wings. I think if we were to see him play as a central striker then he would score a lot more goals. IMO he's done a great job for Rafa and played where he has been asked. I think that him as central striker with Gerrard or Garcia (or ANOther that Rafa might sign in the summer) playing off of him would be an excellent combination.

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:44 pm

kuyts a good player, but has started far to many mathces this season, and he needs dropping ASAP. He looks very tired and is lacking confidence, and because Rafa never seems to drop him (he always plays some part in all matches) he has got in to a bit of a comfort zone. Basically i think Crouch or Fowler should start the next few games, with Kuty coming of the bench and EARNING his place back in the side.

by **EddieC** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:02 am

Personally I believe we'll see the best out of Kuyt next season. We've got to remember he played in the World Cup in the summer, then came here & had to adapt to a new club, new league, and a role where he's expected to work a lot harder than at Feyenoord. Imagine you took a regular holiday every year, and then one year you not only had to cancel it, but had to start a new job which was twice as hard. Would you not be a bit bolloxed? Add to this the fact that he hasn't been rotated half as much as the other strikers, and I think it's perfectly reasonable that he should feel a bit tired around this stage of the season. Personally I was very happy with his performances earlier in the season, it's only recently I've been able to fault him. Best thing for him I feel, is give him a break now before he burns himself out completely, a few weeks off & he'll be back to his best. Worked for Crouch anyway :;):

by **stmichael** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:04 am

peterc1992 wrote:Hes not worht the money we paid for him,hes a good worker but wont score 20+ goalss for us,i no he has in the past but that was a league and all the people that scored so many goals int hat league,Kezman who had almost 1 goal in every game ratio.Hes in the spanish league now i think and he ws with chelsea and idnt do anything.Id rather take owen back than have him and hes not worht 14 million when owen was sold for 7 milliion and nunez? ?

What a load of tosh.

I can't believe people have made their minds up abaout the guy already. All in all he's probably had a lot better first season than the likes of Henry and Drogba did.

I think we should wait to judge him until:

(a) he gets regular, proper service from the wings and

(b) he gets a licence to hang around the opposition's box like most of the players in the top scorers table do.

by **KRobbo10** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:08 pm

I personally think he is a great player, and the kind of player we want at our club, a player who is proud to wear the top.

He might be going through a bad patch at the minute, but wait till next season when he is hopefully playing with better players and would have got used to the premiership.

by **Stu.Murph** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:16 pm

stmichael wrote:
peterc1992 wrote:Hes not worht the money we paid for him,hes a good worker but wont score 20+ goalss for us,i no he has in the past but that was a league and all the people that scored so many goals int hat league,Kezman who had almost 1 goal in every game ratio.Hes in the spanish league now i think and he ws with chelsea and idnt do anything.Id rather take owen back than have him and hes not worht 14 million when owen was sold for 7 milliion and nunez? ?

What a load of tosh.

I can't believe people have made their minds up abaout the guy already. All in all he's probably had a lot better first season than the likes of Henry and Drogba did.

I think we should wait to judge him until:

(a) he gets regular, proper service from the wings and

(b) he gets a licence to hang around the opposition's box like most of the players in the top scorers table do.

Granted young peter's wording was awful, don't they teach English in school anymore?

But he has a point and I think stmicheal it is you that is posting "tosh".

Kuyt isn't good enough. Its as simple as that. A good player maybe, a top class one? Not in a million years. He's never going to score goals from cosses either as he doesn't get into the box, he doesn't attack the ball and his ability to head a ball is worse than mine.

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:09 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
stmichael wrote:
peterc1992 wrote:Hes not worht the money we paid for him,hes a good worker but wont score 20+ goalss for us,i no he has in the past but that was a league and all the people that scored so many goals int hat league,Kezman who had almost 1 goal in every game ratio.Hes in the spanish league now i think and he ws with chelsea and idnt do anything.Id rather take owen back than have him and hes not worht 14 million when owen was sold for 7 milliion and nunez? ?

What a load of tosh.

I can't believe people have made their minds up abaout the guy already. All in all he's probably had a lot better first season than the likes of Henry and Drogba did.

I think we should wait to judge him until:

(a) he gets regular, proper service from the wings and

(b) he gets a licence to hang around the opposition's box like most of the players in the top scorers table do.

Granted young peter's wording was awful, don't they teach English in school anymore?

But he has a point and I think stmicheal it is you that is posting "tosh".

Kuyt isn't good enough. Its as simple as that. A good player maybe, a top class one? Not in a million years. He's never going to score goals from cosses either as he doesn't get into the box, he doesn't attack the ball and his ability to head a ball is worse than mine.

Also St.Mike can I ask, have you made your mind up about Gonzalez, Pennant, Aurelio and even Mascha ?

I'm sure you've already made various views about them good or bad. So why is it utter tosh if somebody has already ruled out Kuyt, thats their opinion like it is your to decide whether Mark Gonzalez will make the grade or not.

As hard and as honest as Kuyt plays for us, for me personally it isnt enough. You yourself pointed out his lack of goal scoring opportunities let or lone goals. I think people are allowed to fairly judge a striker by his goals for, rather than hard work alone. It definately seems Rafa is happy to have him play this role for the team, for me though I dont like what he's being asked to do. Its pretty ineffective IMO, in saying that out of all our new recruits Kuyt does deserve to be here next season even if its for his industrious and honest work, he is a decent player and looks a cut above Gonzalez and possibly Pennant.

by **stmichael** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:21 pm

Bamaga man wrote:Also St.Mike can I ask, have you made your mind up about Gonzalez, Pennant, Aurelio and even Mascha ?

I'm sure you've already made various views about them good or bad. So why is it utter tosh if somebody has already ruled out Kuyt, thats their opinion like it is your to decide whether Mark Gonzalez will make the grade or not.

I haven't ruled anybody out yet, far from it.

On Pennant and Gonzalez, who knows how they might develop given time, but I'll admit that so far neither have produced anything even approaching the quality we need on a long term basis. Both clearly have ability but confidence has generally been an issue for them both all season. Pennant has improved since Christmas and gives us natural width but it worries me when he comes out in the press spouting about how he's "proved himself".

Gonzalez is different for me as I've only ever really seen him play for us. Apparently he played well in Spain and Rafa certainly must have seen something to pursue him so relentlessly. I can see that he could well be the victim of culture shock here and would like to see him given time to adapt as second choice behind a top class left winger. I'm not just going to write him off at this stage like others. Reyes and Pires did literally nothing in their first seasons here.

However if neither kick on next season they will struggle to remain even as squad players beyond that.

On Aurelio, once again he's clearly got ability (and a marvellous left foot) but he looks like he's going to go down the road of Rob Jones and Vegard Heggem in terms of Liverpool full backs.

Mascherano is class, simple as. I didn't even need to see him play to come to that judgement. The fact that nearly every major club in Europe have been interested in him since the World Cup should be testament to that.

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