Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:05 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Just to add a few flames to the fire i thought i'd add this.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161657081012-0912.htm

That just reinforces my gut instinct that Rafa wants Kuyt on the pitch and doesn't see him as a stop-gap at RM, to be replaced by someone more skillful in January.

If you remember last season Bob, Rafa said similar things about Sissoko........just before he sold him

I wouldn't take anything for granted mate. May depend on who is available ?

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:06 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Just to add a few flames to the fire i thought i'd add this.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161657081012-0912.htm

That just reinforces my gut instinct that Rafa wants Kuyt on the pitch and doesn't see him as a stop-gap at RM, to be replaced by someone more skillful in January.

I've never thought anything different to be honest mate. For a manager who is reknowned for "rotating"...

<hides for a moment>

... Kuyt seems to play more regularly than most, indicating that he's a first team mainstay and not a temporary measure.

(Whether I agree with that or not is another matter!!)

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:37 pm

Jimmy the Weasel wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Just to add a few flames to the fire i thought i'd add this.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161657081012-0912.htm

That just reinforces my gut instinct that Rafa wants Kuyt on the pitch and doesn't see him as a stop-gap at RM, to be replaced by someone more skillful in January.

I've never thought anything different to be honest mate. For a manager who is reknowned for "rotating"...

<hides for a moment>

... Kuyt seems to play more regularly than most, indicating that he's a first team mainstay and not a temporary measure.

(Whether I agree with that or not is another matter!!)

That's definitely part of it for me, too. You'd think Kuyt would be rotated more frequently than, say, Gerrard or Torres or Masch but that hasn't really been the case, going back at least to last winter, IIRC. I just think Rafa really rates his contribution in ways that are hard for a lot of us to imagine.

Saint, I'd of course never say never where Rafa's concerned but I'd be very surprised if Kuyt were sold and also very surprised if someone were brought in to start in his place. Should the latter happen, though, I would predict that whoever was brought in to fill the position would be a real grafter rather than a winger with bags of tricks.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:48 pm

There is always the possibility that we keep Kuyt, just sell Pennant and increase the competition on the right by bringing in someone better? With money in such short supply at the moment, we may see little activity this transfer window anyway.

It seems Pennant has fallen so far down the pecking order now, it would be difficult to see him regaining a regular place anyway?

by **metalhead** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:59 pm

s@int wrote:There is always the possibility that we keep Kuyt, just sell Pennant and increase the competition on the right by bringing in someone better? With money in such short supply at the moment, we may see little activity this transfer window anyway.

It seems Pennant has fallen so far down the pecking order now, it would be difficult to see him regaining a regular place anyway?

Agreed s@int, I do think Rafa will get a right winger this january, This Jakob fella looks like he is on our priority list. I do think Rafa doesn't intend to keep Kuyt playing on the right the whole season. Maybe this is temporary? who knows.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:01 pm

s@int wrote:There is always the possibility that we keep Kuyt, just sell Pennant and increase the competition on the right by bringing in someone better? With money in such short supply at the moment, we may see little activity this transfer window anyway.

It seems Pennant has fallen so far down the pecking order now, it would be difficult to see him regaining a regular place anyway?

I'd not be surprised at all to see us sell Pennant and, if we do, Rafa would likely be looking for another RM as at least back-up (unless he thinks Benayoun is enough). I agree that it won't be a big name, expensive signing though given the financial turmoil and given that those lads are hard to sign in January. In my mind, Kuyt's pretty much got the season to prove to Rafa that he can hack it as a RM in a title challenging side.

by **Sabre** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:11 pm

You could tell about Kuyt that he's not a natural finisher, that he's not very skillful, that he's not very good crossing, that he hasn't a great control, nor have an eye to send a through pass. And you would be right.

But that "ugly" work Rafa mentions must be there and might be important. Because we're not that good to be on top of the table despite having a player that provides nothing. Many fans do mention that Kuyt works hard, but they don't give very much importance to that fact.

It seems that Rafa does. I would like to know what Rafa appreciates most of Kuyt's ugly part of the game. Kuyt is very generous with his runs, when someone else is mounting a counter he's one of the players that always is running with determination to offer an option. You see him 2 minutes after that and he's following an opposition player like a mad man, where most wingers I know in the liga would be taking a 5 min rest. A defensive maniac like Rafa must appreciate that.

He's very persistant and he's not offline in minute 65 like Riera is. Riera is not sat down because he's done a bad game, but because by min 70 at this rythm he's tired.

So I don't know if it's his persistance, his generous runs or what, but there's something we all are seeing in Kuyt but we don't give it much importance, yet the manager does. Of course Rafa is no God, but his opinion is respectable isn't it?, so is the opinion of players that have praised Kuyt's work.

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:42 pm

Sabre wrote:You could tell about Kuyt that he's not a natural finisher, that he's not very skillful, that he's not very good crossing, that he hasn't a great control, nor have an eye to send a through pass. And you would be right.

But that "ugly" work Rafa mentions must be there and might be important. Because we're not that good to be on top of the table despite having a player that provides nothing. Many fans do mention that Kuyt works hard, but they don't give very much importance to that fact.

It seems that Rafa does. I would like to know what Rafa appreciates most of Kuyt's ugly part of the game. Kuyt is very generous with his runs, when someone else is mounting a counter he's one of the players that always is running with determination to offer an option. You see him 2 minutes after that and he's following an opposition player like a mad man, where most wingers I know in the liga would be taking a 5 min rest. A defensive maniac like Rafa must appreciate that.

He's very persistant and he's not offline in minute 65 like Riera is. Riera is not sat down because he's done a bad game, but because by min 70 at this rythm he's tired.

So I don't know if it's his persistance, his generous runs or what, but there's something we all are seeing in Kuyt but we don't give it much importance, yet the manager does. Of course Rafa is no God, but his opinion is respectable isn't it?, so is the opinion of players that have praised Kuyt's work.

I reckon we all know what Kuyt does and doesn't do - there's mainly agreement on what he brings to the table (in most cases, some judgements are a world apart of course!).

However I think that for all his qualities - you get somebody else receiving the ball on the 6 yard box at Man City in the 20th minute and you've got a completely different match on your hands after looking useful in the opening exchanges without capitalising - and quite possibly no need to come back from 2-0 down in the second half either.

It's tighter matches than that one where I worry that his profligacy in front of goal might cost us - matches we should be winning without the fuss, or where that is the only clear cut chance we create.

by **GYBS** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:54 pm

you mean the sort of chances we got at the end of both the city and liege game which he got on the end of to score to win the game

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:06 am

Sabre wrote:So I don't know if it's his persistance, his generous runs or what, but there's something we all are seeing in Kuyt but we don't give it much importance, yet the manager does. Of course Rafa is no God, but his opinion is respectable isn't it?, so is the opinion of players that have praised Kuyt's work.

His overall attitude on the pitch and off it is the best. Better than Gerrards. He has an attitude that says, "not over yet". And thats what I love about the fella. Hes doing nothing special, hes not lighting up the premiership, but his overall work is nothing short of exceptional. I mentioned before about bringing in a right winger. Lets say Gerrard isnt an option, who can replace kuyt? Name a top class winger who gets all over the pitch with endless stamina and does the tackling, the getting back to defend, the "ugly" work. There isnt one that springs to my mind. Its this trait that can be seen by many and missed by many. As stu would say, he works hard, not many players do in todays game.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:08 am

GYBS wrote:you mean the sort of chances we got at the end of both the city and liege game which he got on the end of to score to win the game

or like the stoke game where is stupidity in trying to get a contact on a free kick which was already going in cost us two points

:glare:

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:09 am

GYBS wrote:you mean the sort of chances we got at the end of both the city and liege game which he got on the end of to score to win the game

The point I'm making is that we passed the ball well in the opening 15-20 minutes against City and looked like we might cruise through the match, then the best chance drops a couple of yards out, flies into the crowd and City go up the other end and score almost immediately.

If Kuyt buries that chance, we're one up early in the match, City showed that they don't have the spine for the battle so the match almost certainly pans out very differently as the goal potentially kills what spirit they have.

Instead we had to come back from 2 goals down, when we shouldn't really have had to.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:11 am

peewee wrote:
GYBS wrote:you mean the sort of chances we got at the end of both the city and liege game which he got on the end of to score to win the game

or like the stoke game where is stupidity in trying to get a contact on a free kick which was already going in cost us two points

The very same game where Kuyt had the sense to get to the byline and try create chances that way rather than hoof the ball to the towers known as the stoke defence like the rest of the team. :oops:

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:13 am

peewee wrote:
GYBS wrote:you mean the sort of chances we got at the end of both the city and liege game which he got on the end of to score to win the game

or like the stoke game where is stupidity in trying to get a contact on a free kick which was already going in cost us two points

Now that is daft pee, it's his job to attack free kicks , yer can hardly have a go at him for doing his job . The rest of your concerns with Kuyt is fair enough. I don't agree with them all mate ,but i think your being a tad harsh , or am i missing some sarcasm there . Probably the latter ,if so my apologies for not seeing it fast enough and jumping in with both feet.

by **Bam** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:16 am

peewee wrote:
GYBS wrote:you mean the sort of chances we got at the end of both the city and liege game which he got on the end of to score to win the game

or like the stoke game where is stupidity in trying to get a contact on a free kick which was already going in cost us two points

Peewee mate thats no right, come on man.

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