Liverpool FC Forum

[Kharhaz]

I can only recall a small handful of matches where I can say Kuyt has significantly influenced the flow of a game. He has a lot more to do before those comparisons stand up.

Again, couldnt the same be said for Gerrard? The difference being, Gerrard has influenced an FA Cup Final, and of course the champions league final against Milan. He scored the odd beauty but take that away from Gerrard what is he offering? for the one great league game he gives he doesnt give much for the next 3 games. Answer this, and this is open to anyone, give me a run in the league in which Gerrard has been truly inspirational to warrant his wage, his status, as club captain. To criticisize kuyt is easy, its not so easy when it comes to gerrard and the difference is Gerrard is the club captain and pops up with the odd beauty of a goal to get us all purring, and kuyt does the dirty work, for 90 mins of a match, and gets nothing for his efforts. The best way to settle this argument is simple. Watch Liverpools next game, watch what gerrard does compared to what kuyt does.

[Jimmy the Weasel]

So what about the Alonso thread then Stu ?

What about it?

As far as I'm aware thats not there to discuss whether Xabi's a great player or not, its simply whether he deserves a place over Mascherano. Anyone who doesn't think Alonso's a good player know's nothing about the sport. End of.

Call me slow but I might just have seen where your name came from!!

[Jimmy the Weasel]

I can only recall a small handful of matches where I can say Kuyt has significantly influenced the flow of a game. He has a lot more to do before those comparisons stand up.

Again, couldnt the same be said for Gerrard? The difference being, Gerrard has influenced an FA Cup Final, and of course the champions league final against Milan. He scored the odd beauty but take that away from Gerrard what is he offering? for the one great league game he gives he doesnt give much for the next 3 games. Answer this, and this is open to anyone, give me a run in the league in which Gerrard has been truly inspirational to warrant his wage, his status, as club captain. To criticisize kuyt is easy, its not so easy when it comes to gerrard and the difference is Gerrard is the club captain and pops up with the odd beauty of a goal to get us all purring, and kuyt does the dirty work, for 90 mins of a match, and gets nothing for his efforts. The best way to settle this argument is simple. Watch Liverpools next game, watch what gerrard does compared to what kuyt does.

No I don't think the same can be said.

And I watched the last match and it doesn't support your argument at all unfortunately. In fact it was only when Gerrard moved to wide right for a spell that we offered an attacking threat in that area - and scored the first goal. I actually said that to my mate at the time.

[Bam]

So what about the Alonso thread then Stu ?

What about it?

As far as I'm aware thats not there to discuss whether Xabi's a great player or not, its simply whether he deserves a place over Mascherano. Anyone who doesn't think Alonso's a good player know's nothing about the sport. End of.

I just wondered where the Alonso thread lay in context with the "Torres and Gerrard have their own thread, and you can only see the praise they get in it"

So where does Xabi's thread fall into that, considering this thread about Kuyt is a critical one ?

[Kharhaz]

So what about the Alonso thread then Stu ?

What about it?

As far as I'm aware thats not there to discuss whether Xabi's a great player or not, its simply whether he deserves a place over Mascherano. Anyone who doesn't think Alonso's a good player know's nothing about the sport. End of.

I just wondered where the Alonso thread lay in context with the "Torres and Gerrard have their own thread, and you can only see the praise they get in it"

So where does Xabi's thread fall into that, considering this thread about Kuyt is a critical one ?

You have those for kuyt and those against kuyt. The players are for kuyt, as is the manager, ive now decided its pointless arguing against those who dont see his worth, as there is not enough breath in my body. I see his worth and that will do for me.

[Bad Bob]

I can only recall a small handful of matches where I can say Kuyt has significantly influenced the flow of a game. He has a lot more to do before those comparisons stand up.

Again, couldnt the same be said for Gerrard? The difference being, Gerrard has influenced an FA Cup Final, and of course the champions league final against Milan. He scored the odd beauty but take that away from Gerrard what is he offering? for the one great league game he gives he doesnt give much for the next 3 games. Answer this, and this is open to anyone, give me a run in the league in which Gerrard has been truly inspirational to warrant his wage, his status, as club captain. To criticisize kuyt is easy, its not so easy when it comes to gerrard and the difference is Gerrard is the club captain and pops up with the odd beauty of a goal to get us all purring, and kuyt does the dirty work, for 90 mins of a match, and gets nothing for his efforts. The best way to settle this argument is simple. Watch Liverpools next game, watch what gerrard does compared to what kuyt does.

Sorry, mate, but for my money Gerrard proves his worth virtually every time he takes the field.  I know what you're trying to say about Kuyt but I don't think you could have picked a worse comparison, if I'm honest--Gerrard, like Kuyt, works exceptionally hard for the team but he also has bags of skill and he's pulled us out of the muck more than any other player.

[GYBS]

You cant compare Gerrard with Kuyt- everytime Gerrard goes onto the field in  a Liverpool shirt you know the guy is going to give everything - sometimes it may not come off and he may not play well but for the majority of the time the guy is there every single time creatiing or scoring.


AS for blaming Kuyt for loosing two points against stoke cause he was WRONGLY called offside is pretty pathetic really and just looking for a reason to critisize him . The prob with Kuyt is he isnt the most spectacular player in the world - he isnt the quickest of trickiest player nor does he hit 30 yard blasters or go on lung busting runs round all 11 players to score magical goals BUT as Rafa says he does the dirty work to enable the players like Torres and Gerrard to do that stuff as well as popping up with important goals and creating chances and goals - Its important work (very important ) and that is recognised by the manager the players and some fans , ex players etc etc . He reminds me of people like sammy lee who was pretty much the same - unspectatular work but did it every game week in week out (even sammy has stated so) . As long as he keeps doing that work that allows others to flourish then he will earn his place in the team. While he continues to do the work noticed or unnoticed (by the fans) but not be spectatcular he will be critized cause he isnt doing what people like torres or gerrard are doing.

[kazza]

Beckham scored one free-kick against Greece after missisng about ten and they called him Golden Balls. Go figure!

[maypaxvobiscum]

the only thing left in this thread is personal jibes. BigMick has already summarized most of our opinions in his long post.

[GYBS]

So does that mean we cant comment on it cause of one person summarizing what HE thinks ? Will continue to give my thoughts of Kuyt whenever he plays good or bad unless a mod tells me i cant .

[maypaxvobiscum]

So does that mean we cant comment on it cause of one person summarizing what HE thinks ? Will continue to give my thoughts of Kuyt whenever he plays good or bad unless a mod tells me i cant .

he didnt summarize what he think. he summarized alot of other poster's opinions im sure. just because you have an issue with him doesnt mean you have to be such sour grapes. grow up.

you can keep posting all you want though. its better then the jokes thread.

[Jimmy the Weasel]

You cant compare Gerrard with Kuyt- everytime Gerrard goes onto the field in  a Liverpool shirt you know the guy is going to give everything - sometimes it may not come off and he may not play well but for the majority of the time the guy is there every single time creatiing or scoring.


AS for blaming Kuyt for loosing two points against stoke cause he was WRONGLY called offside is pretty pathetic really and just looking for a reason to critisize him . The prob with Kuyt is he isnt the most spectacular player in the world - he isnt the quickest of trickiest player nor does he hit 30 yard blasters or go on lung busting runs round all 11 players to score magical goals BUT as Rafa says he does the dirty work to enable the players like Torres and Gerrard to do that stuff as well as popping up with important goals and creating chances and goals - Its important work (very important ) and that is recognised by the manager the players and some fans , ex players etc etc . He reminds me of people like sammy lee who was pretty much the same - unspectatular work but did it every game week in week out (even sammy has stated so) . As long as he keeps doing that work that allows others to flourish then he will earn his place in the team. While he continues to do the work noticed or unnoticed (by the fans) but not be spectatcular he will be critized cause he isnt doing what people like torres or gerrard are doing.

I think it's a little short-sighted to suggest that the reason he gets criticised is simply because he doesn't do what Torres and Gerrard do.

Not many players do - to dismiss that as the reason for criticism is to basically ignore 60-odd pages of arguments and reasons why he is actually deemed not good enough.

(oh and for the record, I thought Kuyt was actually offside against Stoke and the decision was proven to be correct - not that I agree it's a reason to blame Kuyt for 2 points lost)

[GYBS]

You cant compare Gerrard with Kuyt- everytime Gerrard goes onto the field in  a Liverpool shirt you know the guy is going to give everything - sometimes it may not come off and he may not play well but for the majority of the time the guy is there every single time creatiing or scoring.


AS for blaming Kuyt for loosing two points against stoke cause he was WRONGLY called offside is pretty pathetic really and just looking for a reason to critisize him . The prob with Kuyt is he isnt the most spectacular player in the world - he isnt the quickest of trickiest player nor does he hit 30 yard blasters or go on lung busting runs round all 11 players to score magical goals BUT as Rafa says he does the dirty work to enable the players like Torres and Gerrard to do that stuff as well as popping up with important goals and creating chances and goals - Its important work (very important ) and that is recognised by the manager the players and some fans , ex players etc etc . He reminds me of people like sammy lee who was pretty much the same - unspectatular work but did it every game week in week out (even sammy has stated so) . As long as he keeps doing that work that allows others to flourish then he will earn his place in the team. While he continues to do the work noticed or unnoticed (by the fans) but not be spectatcular he will be critized cause he isnt doing what people like torres or gerrard are doing.

I think it's a little short-sighted to suggest that the reason he gets criticised is simply because he doesn't do what Torres and Gerrard do.

Not many players do - to dismiss that as the reason for criticism is to basically ignore 60-odd pages of arguments and reasons why he is actually deemed not good enough.

(oh and for the record, I thought Kuyt was actually offside against Stoke and the decision was proven to be correct - not that I agree it's a reason to blame Kuyt for 2 points lost)

I think thats where half the problems come from mate - because the guy isnt spectactular and doesnt measure up to the world class players we have in the team yet these world class players constantly state how important he is - the dirty work as rafa puts it needs to be done and kuyt does a hell of a lot of it to enable there more talented and skilful players to concentrate on what they do best - i think keane is a mix of both which is good and if if kuyt contiunes to do the work that enables torres to do what he does best then all godd for me .

[Jimmy the Weasel]

I think thats where half the problems come from mate - because the guy isnt spectactular and doesnt measure up to the world class players we have in the team yet these world class players constantly state how important he is - the dirty work as rafa puts it needs to be done and kuyt does a hell of a lot of it to enable there more talented and skilful players to concentrate on what they do best - i think keane is a mix of both which is good and if if kuyt contiunes to do the work that enables torres to do what he does best then all godd for me .

There are plenty of players who don't do what Torres and Gerrard do - it's the reason those two are so special - but these other players don't face the criticism Kuyt gets, so why is that if your theory is valid?

The easy answer is that he's being made a scapegoat - but not true (in most cases) I'm afraid.

The reason Kuyt gets criticism is not because he's not spectacular - it's because so often he does the even the most simple, basic things really poorly.

[GYBS]

I think thats where half the problems come from mate - because the guy isnt spectactular and doesnt measure up to the world class players we have in the team yet these world class players constantly state how important he is - the dirty work as rafa puts it needs to be done and kuyt does a hell of a lot of it to enable there more talented and skilful players to concentrate on what they do best - i think keane is a mix of both which is good and if if kuyt contiunes to do the work that enables torres to do what he does best then all godd for me .

There are plenty of players who don't do what Torres and Gerrard do - it's the reason those two are so special - but these other players don't face the criticism Kuyt gets, so why is that if your theory is valid?

The easy answer is that he's being made a scapegoat - but not true (in most cases) I'm afraid.

The reason Kuyt gets criticism is not because he's not spectacular - it's because so often he does the even the most simple, basic things really poorly.

Why does he get the flack more than anyone ?

1. Cause he seems an easy target - not saying by you as you have given credit when its due

2. Cause we spent 10 mil on him as a striker after a great record in the dutch league and he went through a long barren spell not scoring in the league .

3. Cause he has moved to a different role out right mid and many people expect to see flying wingers there going up and down all day dribbling past players and delivering crosses all day long and kuyt doesnt do that .

On the simple things issue i watched him during the CL game a lot and saw him have plenty of first touches that were solid , plenty of passes that hit there men - long and short , saw him take a coupl eof and beat them . Of course there were a few passes that went astray and touches that were poor but no different to anyone else on the field at that time .