Liverpool FC Forum

by **MASTER** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:51 am

Bad Bob wrote:Fair enough, it's a Kuyt thread and people are talking at length about whether he's good enough but, honestly, that discussion has been hashed and rehashed to within an inch of its life now surely?

Perhaps a new direction of debate would be to assess what it is that Rafa sees in Kuyt and why he gets so many minutes on the pitch each week, even if he's looked less than stellar? Some will no doubt get silly about this and suggest that the Dutch mafia has threatened Rafa's family or that they fancy each other or something but it would be great if people seriously looked at the question. Rafa surely isn't blind to Kuyt's limitations and yet opts to make him a virtually nailed-on 90+ minute player most matches. What does the Dutchman bring to the team in Rafa's system that makes him so undroppable?

Agree Bob, but it is not only league, it will be FA cup and UCL as well, but Rafa would just point to the same things GYBS has, in his defence of Kuyt.

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:52 am

Bad Bob wrote:Fair enough, it's a Kuyt thread and people are talking at length about whether he's good enough but, honestly, that discussion has been hashed and rehashed to within an inch of its life now surely?

Perhaps a new direction of debate would be to assess what it is that Rafa sees in Kuyt and why he gets so many minutes on the pitch each week, even if he's looked less than stellar? Some will no doubt get silly about this and suggest that the Dutch mafia has threatened Rafa's family or that they fancy each other or something but it would be great if people seriously looked at the question. Rafa surely isn't blind to Kuyt's limitations and yet opts to make him a virtually nailed-on 90+ minute player most matches. What does the Dutchman bring to the team in Rafa's system that makes him so undroppable?

Safety, reliability, endeavour and work-rate - Kuyt doesn't chance things or gamble.

I think Rafa is a very conservative manager overall, he plays it safe. Kuyt embodies that ethos in my opinion.

In selecting a team for some matches and in some circumstances during matches those are useful traits to have on the field.

In others my opinion differs greatly to that of the manager.

by **GYBS** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:06 pm

peewee wrote:yeah because he was the only player left standing at the end of that game.

Do we now know kuyt has more energy for a fact or is it something else thrown in as an unprovable fact to try and justify an argument.

We can all make up false facts, such as 'kuyt seems to have energy at the end of games because he runs at half the speed of other players'

try looking at the first word of my post - ie THINK so its just me giving my opinion .

by **GYBS** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:09 pm

MASTER wrote:
GYBS wrote:Think maybe he doesnt come off as much due to his energy levels being higher than anyone else as was seen in the leige game .

So his enegy levels are good, OK thats fine.

However you have stated many times in this thread how important he is to the team in BIG matches, this weekend we have possibly the hardest match this season, when we play the derby, purely because of last seasons fixture.

So explain why he even played when we could have seen Babel, Keane, Riera and Torres on the same pitch to see how they integrate, after all we all KNEW, they were going to sit back and wait it out and we would need TRUE creativity.

The really awful thing is were going to have this situation in the league at home maybe 5 more times, where we need said quality, rather than for all his other admirable attributes, the limited technical and athletic skills of Dirk Kuyt.

PS: Well done for standing your ground against a tide of criticisim.

cause maybe kuyt will be playing this weekend , have yuu considered that - derby is perfect for kuyt and he may well win it for us like he helped us do last season . Torres and keane have played together a number of times and havent clicked yet , babel has been more effective as a sub and reira is on the opposite side of the picth so kuyt being there doesnt effect him . Keane and babel havent justified why they should get picked ahead of kuyt yet .

by **stmichael** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:11 pm

Those who criticise Kuyt's performances for us should also be criticising some of Rooney's displays for Man U. In a lot of games, he's simply a hard working, willing runner.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:14 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Fair enough, it's a Kuyt thread and people are talking at length about whether he's good enough but, honestly, that discussion has been hashed and rehashed to within an inch of its life now surely?

Perhaps a new direction of debate would be to assess what it is that Rafa sees in Kuyt and why he gets so many minutes on the pitch each week, even if he's looked less than stellar? Some will no doubt get silly about this and suggest that the Dutch mafia has threatened Rafa's family or that they fancy each other or something but it would be great if people seriously looked at the question. Rafa surely isn't blind to Kuyt's limitations and yet opts to make him a virtually nailed-on 90+ minute player most matches. What does the Dutchman bring to the team in Rafa's system that makes him so undroppable?

Kuyt is a better creative second striker than Keane, he creates good space both on the wing and when played behind Torres. He also has good awareness of the players around him and is unselfish enough to run 50 yards just to give a yard of space to one of our players. His movement outside the box is very good, and he always makes runs that enable players to pick him out with an easy pass.

Note..... I am not saying he is a better player than Keane...... or a better striker....... or more skillful...... or that Keane is [email]cr@p......[/email] etc etc .

by **GYBS** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:18 pm

thats a very good post saint and another reason it made me wander why we bought keane in the first place . kuyt has always linked up well with torres when they have been paired together.

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:22 pm

stmichael wrote:Those who criticise Kuyt's performances for us should also be criticising some of Rooney's displays for Man U. In a lot of games, he's simply a hard working, willing runner.

Happy to do so!!

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:26 pm

stmichael wrote:Those who criticise Kuyt's performances for us should also be criticising some of Rooney's displays for Man U. In a lot of games, he's simply a hard working, willing runner.

I'm not sure how to take this post Mike. Are you saying that Rooneys performances for man Utd are comparable to Kuyts for Liverpool, or are you saying they are comparable as footballers, in this instance in any position you care to mention?

In either case, are you being serious? Honestly?

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:29 pm

There's no wonder we have arguments about Dirk. I watch him and have my opinion on his ability, whereas some people think he compares favourably to Dimitar Berbatov, and others think he compares with Wayne Rooney. Suffice to say there is quite a big gap between our relative assessments

by **GYBS** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:34 pm

Rooney is by far a more talented footballer than kuyt . he does do a lot of hard work for man utd and i dont think he is utilized to his full potential at man utd . will be even more so now they got berbatov as well .

by **stmichael** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:39 pm

GYBS wrote:Rooney is by far a more talented footballer than kuyt . he does do a lot of hard work for man utd and i dont think he is utilized to his full potential at man utd . will be even more so now they got berbatov as well .

nobody's questioning that. it just seems to be a common trend in football these days for managers to play forward out wide for the sake of the team. rafa isn't the only one who does it. i saw anelka playing wide left for chelsea last season. rooney plays almost exclusively wide for united in europe in particular. van persie plays wide for arsenal as does walcott even though both are strikers.

by **GYBS** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:41 pm

I get what your meaning at mate and understand what your ssaying - but before thou mate people will think you are comparing Rooney with Kuyt and they are biting at the leash .

by **kazza** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:49 pm

stmichael wrote:
GYBS wrote:Rooney is by far a more talented footballer than kuyt . he does do a lot of hard work for man utd and i dont think he is utilized to his full potential at man utd . will be even more so now they got berbatov as well .

nobody's questioning that. it just seems to be a common trend in football these days for managers to play forward out wide for the sake of the team. rafa isn't the only one who does it. i saw anelka playing wide left for chelsea last season. rooney plays almost exclusively wide for united in europe in particular. van persie plays wide for arsenal as does walcott even though both are strikers.

And none of those players are setting goal scoring records when they play out wide. Do they get slated by their fans? Probably by the stupid ones.

by **kazza** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:51 pm

GYBS wrote:Rooney is by far a more talented footballer than kuyt . he does do a lot of hard work for man utd and i dont think he is utilized to his full potential at man utd

and cost three times more.

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