Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:42 pm

Zenit wrote:Kuyt showed in Holland what Huntelaar is showing now in Amsterdam: An incredible strikerinstinct. What natural striker would accept a position in midfield? Kuyt just wants to play and earn his wages en give something back to Liverpool FC, and if that means he has to play in an somewhat akward position for him, he will. He's got tremendous spirit and I remember all the praisal he got at Euro 2008 for all the miles he ran. For me Kuyt resembles a true footballer, with a passion for the game who will never give up and won't settle for a space on the bench earning an outrageous amount of cash and not contributing. He might not be 'wordclass' but he's not the reason Liverpool played horrible yesterday, Standard had a great coach and a great side and can give any topteam a scare. Incredible stuff, their captain is 21 years old, and none of them had ever played a match in Europe.

Difference is Huntelaar has the required technical ability to succeed elsewhere. U watch huntelaar and u see a player who will only get better. Kuyt has no 1st touch and cant even play 5-10 yard passes to a teammate. For a dutch player I am surprised how bad the technique of kuyt is and his inability to keep the ball.

Put me in the red of LFC and I will run all day long. can run for ever and ever but u see that isnt enough. U need more than that to play for a top 4 english side. I really dont get all this "his playing midfield stuff". He played as a striker plenty of times and was poor.

by **Zenit** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:54 pm

Sabre wrote:
Zenit wrote:Kuyt showed in Holland what Huntelaar is showing now in Amsterdam: An incredible strikerinstinct. What natural striker would accept a position in midfield? Kuyt just wants to play and earn his wages en give something back to Liverpool FC, and if that means he has to play in an somewhat akward position for him, he will. He's got tremendous spirit and I remember all the praisal he got at Euro 2008 for all the miles he ran. For me Kuyt resembles a true footballer, with a passion for the game who will never give up and won't settle for a space on the bench earning an outrageous amount of cash and not contributing. He might not be 'wordclass' but he's not the reason Liverpool played horrible yesterday, Standard had a great coach and a great side and can give any topteam a scare. Incredible stuff, their captain is 21 years old, and none of them had ever played a match in Europe.

Good post. And welcome to newkit.

Thanks

I'm actually Belgian so I was kinda routing for Standard yesterday, although it's not my side. It is nice to see how Liverpoolfans appreciate Standard, because we don't get compliments too often. My side just lost 4-0 to Swedish Kalmar and illustrates how bad Belgian soccer is going down. So we were all hoping for a miracle yesterday.

Anyway, I hope Liverpool does well this season WITH Kuyt, I don't really have favourites in England but you have to love guys like Gerrard and Torres.

by **burjennio** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:43 pm

The Kuyt haters have turned to either lying or simply ignoring blatant fact

puroresu Posted on Aug. 28 2008,21:59
Quote (Effes @ Aug. 28 2008,21:30)
If you told Kuyt to stay in the box he'd get you goals - like his first season.
Im not comparing him (skill-wise) to Nistelrooy, but he's a striker who hangs in the box most the time
and gets 90+% of his goals from inside the box.

how many of those 12 league goals were v top sides? I knew after the 1st season kuyt was not the answer yet many believed he would kick on and get better. He aint improving as his already playing at a level to high for him.
Effes Posted on Aug. 28 2008,21:30

Let me see Dirk Kuyt scored against Chelsea, Arsenal and Inter Milan last season. And against AC Milan in the Champions League final the season before that. Lets all have a think about what we post so we don't look like we have some sort of vendetta against certain players. Utto, too late

by **tonyeh** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:31 am

I tend not to like some of the stick that Kuyt gets, but I think Liverpool fans have to be honest at the end of the day. Kuyt may get the odd goal (some of which are very important like last night), but he is a liability. The simple fact is, is that Dirk Kuyt gives the ball to the opposition far too often, not just over a few matches...but in a single game. His ball control and passing (even over very short distance) are very weak. Probably the weakest on the side. This means that attacks involving him break down with depressing ease and allows the other team to spark off a counter attack, which if the team are of any quality, could cause some serious problems.

Last night Dirk Kuyt either gave away the ball or passed it back 95% of the time. In fact, I believe Gerrard gave him a bollocking at one point in the 2nd half for giving the ball away so easilly. The commentators on RTE television said "...he was a nightmare."

The bottom line is and will remain that Dirk Kuyt is an average player, who plays with an absolute 100% committment to the team and he is certainly to be commended for that. But his limitations (especially in the position he has been forced to adopt ) are actually painful to watch.

The fact also remains that until a credible alternative can be found for the right wing, Rafa will continue to play him there...warts'n'all, even with Pennant (Liverpool's only real RWM) in the side.

But Kuyt is not Liverpool's only problem, there are many (both players and tactics) and I'll put my opinion out here now and say that...

Liverpool are NOT going to win the Premiership, in fact, based on the past few games, I doubt that they'll finish 4th this year unless something radical is done to change the current playing form.

Liverpool are NOT going to win the Champions League this year either and will be LUCKY to get out of the group, based on the same set of criteria. They came VERY CLOSE to being knocked out of the qualifying stages. In fact, Liege very UNLUCKY not to win the two legs 3-1. Liverpool now have to face PSV, Atletico and Marseille to get through. All teams that I rate as superior to Standard Liege, on paper anyway.

Yes, it's early in the season...and yes Liverpool have won each game (incredibly!), but we must remember, that they've struggled badly against opposition that they should have eased by.

Also, Liverpool could play 38 Prem games and score the winner in the last 15 minutes all the way through the season...but I don't think that will happen. The law of averages are very much against it. In saying that, I'll be feckin delighted if that was to happen.

Some people on here seem to be holding a torch for Dirk Kuyt (and that's fair enough), but I am forced to wonder, would they be of the same opinion if he played for another team?

Some others here are saying that as long as Liverpool have players of the quality of Dirk Kuyt on the team, that they will not win the Premiership...and I am inclined to agree.

To finish, I'd like to say that I do not wish Dirk Kuyt any ill will, in fact, I'd like to see the lad suddenly shine and force his detractors to eat their words. I'd wager they heard me shouting in Kerry last night when he knocked the ball in with his shin. But after a few seasons of watching him in a Liverpool side, I just cannot see that happening...unfortunately.

Tony

by **azriahmad** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:02 am

He is a limited player who is so often played out of position by his manager, yet never complains and always works his bl00dy socks off.

His work ethics and efforts reminds me of one of our greatest players, Kevin Keegan (I started being a Liverpool fan in 1975/76 as as wee boy who was mesmerised by this player), who admitted (in press literatures) that he was not naturally talented as many other strikers but worked very hard to improve his game. Kuyt is no Keegan in terms of skills but his work rate is admirable.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:09 am

tonyeh wrote:I tend not to like some of the stick that Kuyt gets, but I think Liverpool fans have to be honest at the end of the day. Kuyt may get the odd goal (some of which are very important like last night), but he is a liability. The simple fact is, is that Dirk Kuyt gives the ball to the opposition far too often, not just over a few matches...but in a single game. His ball control and passing (even over very short distance) are very weak. Probably the weakest on the side. This means that attacks involving him break down with depressing ease and allows the other team to spark off a counter attack, which if the team are of any quality, could cause some serious problems.

Last night Dirk Kuyt either gave away the ball or passed it back 95% of the time. In fact, I believe Gerrard gave him a bollocking at one point in the 2nd half for giving the ball away so easilly. The commentators on RTE television said "...he was a nightmare."

The bottom line is and will remain that Dirk Kuyt is an average player, who plays with an absolute 100% committment to the team and he is certainly to be commended for that. But his limitations (especially in the position he has been forced to adopt ) are actually painful to watch.

The fact also remains that until a credible alternative can be found for the right wing, Rafa will continue to play him there...warts'n'all, even with Pennant (Liverpool's only real RWM) in the side.

But Kuyt is not Liverpool's only problem, there are many (both players and tactics) and I'll put my opinion out here now and say that...

Liverpool are NOT going to win the Premiership, in fact, based on the past few games, I doubt that they'll finish 4th this year unless something radical is done to change the current playing form.

Liverpool are NOT going to win the Champions League this year either and will be LUCKY to get out of the group, based on the same set of criteria. They came VERY CLOSE to being knocked out of the qualifying stages. In fact, Liege very UNLUCKY not to win the two legs 3-1. Liverpool now have to face PSV, Atletico and Marseille to get through. All teams that I rate as superior to Standard Liege, on paper anyway.

Yes, it's early in the season...and yes Liverpool have won each game (incredibly!), but we must remember, that they've struggled badly against opposition that they should have eased by.

Also, Liverpool could play 38 Prem games and score the winner in the last 15 minutes all the way through the season...but I don't think that will happen. The law of averages are very much against it. In saying that, I'll be feckin delighted if that was to happen.

Some people on here seem to be holding a torch for Dirk Kuyt (and that's fair enough), but I am forced to wonder, would they be of the same opinion if he played for another team?

Some others here are saying that as long as Liverpool have players of the quality of Dirk Kuyt on the team, that they will not win the Premiership...and I am inclined to agree.

To finish, I'd like to say that I do not wish Dirk Kuyt any ill will, in fact, I'd like to see the lad suddenly shine and force his detractors to eat their words. I'd wager they heard me shouting in Kerry last night when he knocked the ball in with his shin. But after a few seasons of watching him in a Liverpool side, I just cannot see that happening...unfortunately.

Tony

good post tony

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:19 am

tonyeh wrote:I tend not to like some of the stick that Kuyt gets, but I think Liverpool fans have to be honest at the end of the day. Kuyt may get the odd goal (some of which are very important like last night), but he is a liability. The simple fact is, is that Dirk Kuyt gives the ball to the opposition far too often, not just over a few matches...but in a single game. His ball control and passing (even over very short distance) are very weak. Probably the weakest on the side. This means that attacks involving him break down with depressing ease and allows the other team to spark off a counter attack, which if the team are of any quality, could cause some serious problems.

Last night Dirk Kuyt either gave away the ball or passed it back 95% of the time. In fact, I believe Gerrard gave him a bollocking at one point in the 2nd half for giving the ball away so easilly. The commentators on RTE television said "...he was a nightmare."

The bottom line is and will remain that Dirk Kuyt is an average player, who plays with an absolute 100% committment to the team and he is certainly to be commended for that. But his limitations (especially in the position he has been forced to adopt ) are actually painful to watch.

The fact also remains that until a credible alternative can be found for the right wing, Rafa will continue to play him there...warts'n'all, even with Pennant (Liverpool's only real RWM) in the side.

But Kuyt is not Liverpool's only problem, there are many (both players and tactics) and I'll put my opinion out here now and say that...

Liverpool are NOT going to win the Premiership, in fact, based on the past few games, I doubt that they'll finish 4th this year unless something radical is done to change the current playing form.

Liverpool are NOT going to win the Champions League this year either and will be LUCKY to get out of the group, based on the same set of criteria. They came VERY CLOSE to being knocked out of the qualifying stages. In fact, Liege very UNLUCKY not to win the two legs 3-1. Liverpool now have to face PSV, Atletico and Marseille to get through. All teams that I rate as superior to Standard Liege, on paper anyway.

Yes, it's early in the season...and yes Liverpool have won each game (incredibly!), but we must remember, that they've struggled badly against opposition that they should have eased by.

Also, Liverpool could play 38 Prem games and score the winner in the last 15 minutes all the way through the season...but I don't think that will happen. The law of averages are very much against it. In saying that, I'll be feckin delighted if that was to happen.

Some people on here seem to be holding a torch for Dirk Kuyt (and that's fair enough), but I am forced to wonder, would they be of the same opinion if he played for another team?

Some others here are saying that as long as Liverpool have players of the quality of Dirk Kuyt on the team, that they will not win the Premiership...and I am inclined to agree.

To finish, I'd like to say that I do not wish Dirk Kuyt any ill will, in fact, I'd like to see the lad suddenly shine and force his detractors to eat their words. I'd wager they heard me shouting in Kerry last night when he knocked the ball in with his shin. But after a few seasons of watching him in a Liverpool side, I just cannot see that happening...unfortunately.

Tony

It is a good post, Tony, and I agree with your assessment of Kuyt. As for Liverpool not finishing fourth or getting out of our CL group based on current form, I'm less inclined to concur for the simple reason that we'll get better. Remember how utterly abyssmal we looked last January and early February? It looked like we'd never win another match and then things clicked and we went on a very nice little run. Well, that will certainly happen again and probably sooner rather than later. We have too much talent for it not to happen and, for all of our struggles to compete with the personnel of Chelsea and Man U, we're still a better squad by some distance than the Evertons and Portsmouths and Villas of the league. So, I think we'll finish top four without too much trouble and at least get out of our CL group. Of course, neither of those things in and of themselves will be enough this season. If Rafa wants to keep his job, we actually need to challenge, win a trophy or, in all probability, both. Those loftier ambitions look a little out of reach at the moment but I wouldn't for a second write us off yet.

by **tonyeh** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:51 am

Well Bob, I hope your assessment is more accurate than mine. But even with the new year slump, I still think Liverpool looked a stronger side last season, even though they were the kings of the score draw for what seemed an eternity. It's true Liverpool only lost 4 games last year, 1 less than Utd and only 1 more than Chelsea and Arsenal. But the 13 draws scuppered hopes for the title. All of which is stating the obvious of course.

But this year we look weaker...a lot weaker, despite the wins. Something is not right at all with the side at all. The gel is not there yet and at the moment I just don't see it happening. I swear to god, I damn near broke a finger last night watching the game.

For the record, I never write off Liverpool and for all their faults, I still find them one of the most exciting teams to watch.

Perhaps if/when ferdy gets his goal boots on and starts knocking them in regularly, i'll calm down.

Anyway, I'm off to the Electric Picnic tomorrow for some booze and My Bloody Valentine...so I'll see you lot on Monday. I hope I can catch the Villa game somewhere.

Tony

by **GYBS** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:10 am

puroresu wrote:
Sabre wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Effes wrote:If you told Kuyt to stay in the box he'd get you goals - like his first season.
Im not comparing him (skill-wise) to Nistelrooy, but he's a striker who hangs in the box most the time
and gets 90+% of his goals from inside the box.

how many of those 12 league goals were v top sides? I knew after the 1st season kuyt was not the answer yet many believed he would kick on and get better. He aint improving as his already playing at a level to high for him.

Points against lower teams count less or something? If we had converted some draws against lower teams in victories, we would have been closer to challenge.

I don't understand that point, but if it's truly important against who he scores, he scored against AC Milan in a CL final. Does that mean something?

The point is that Kuyt is not good enough to be effective against the top class defenders. Its not just about goals its also about his lack of basic skillset to succeed. Technically his average and he loses the ball to often. If you watched Kuyt for another side playing like he does for us would you honestly say "we should buy him". He may be a great person and real nice lad in the dressing room but it doesnt change the fact that his an ordinary player who shouldnt be in a side with aspirations to win the Premier League and CL.

Are costacurta - terry- carvahlo- toure- inter milan centre backs not top class defenders ?

by **maguskwt** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:04 pm

feck ya you anti-rafa, anti-kuyt, anti-riise, anti-voronin, anti-benayoun, anti-keane, anti-dossena brigade... try supporting your own feckin team for once... that's all i have to say...

p.s. *hicks* sorry if i offended anyone...

by **Number 9** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:26 pm

maguskwt wrote:feck ya you anti-rafa, anti-kuyt, anti-riise, anti-voronin, anti-benayoun, anti-keane, anti-dossena brigade... try supporting your own feckin team for once... that's all i have to say...

p.s. *hicks* sorry if i offended anyone...

I smell Fanta!!

by **faldo** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:51 pm

i used to think kuyt was junk through and through,yet a couple of weeks with the national squad,and we saw him playing slick football in a slick dutch team. the team look liked they knew what they were doing and more importantly so did kuyt. so i'm thinking finally we see the true kuyt,theres no way he could lose form so soon after the euros and put in his usual displays for us.....wrong.

kuyt makes liverpool look ugly,i'm not talking about his face by his liverpool displays...yet that ugliness is nowhere to be seen in a dutch shirt. either playing for liverpool just does not agree with kuyt or its the manager or training thats bringing him down.

against arsenal in the champions league kuyt was ugly in the 1st half,then suddenly he transformed into something amazing. kuyt can be so bad,sometimes i wonder if he is taking the p!ss.

he seems to have found his scoring boots again,and maybe its time to put him back up front and stick keane on the bench.kuyt is far too much involved with the build up of play .he just loses the ball too often. i no longer want kuyt out the club because he is proving he scores big big goals, i would be cutting of my nose to spite my anus. all i want is him to stop breaking down our promising play.

by **puroresu** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:22 pm

faldo wrote:i used to think kuyt was junk through and through,yet a couple of weeks with the national squad,and we saw him playing slick football in a slick dutch team. the team look liked they knew what they were doing and more importantly so did kuyt. so i'm thinking finally we see the true kuyt,theres no way he could lose form so soon after the euros and put in his usual displays for us.....wrong.

kuyt makes liverpool look ugly,i'm not talking about his face by his liverpool displays...yet that ugliness is nowhere to be seen in a dutch shirt. either playing for liverpool just does not agree with kuyt or its the manager or training thats bringing him down.

against arsenal in the champions league kuyt was ugly in the 1st half,then suddenly he transformed into something amazing. kuyt can be so bad,sometimes i wonder if he is taking the p!ss.

he seems to have found his scoring boots again,and maybe its time to put him back up front and stick keane on the bench.kuyt is far too much involved with the build up of play .he just loses the ball too often. i no longer want kuyt out the club because he is proving he scores big big goals, i would be cutting of my nose to spite my anus. all i want is him to stop breaking down our promising play.

He really wasnt that good for Holland. It helps that he plays with top quality around him.

by **Sabre** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:43 pm

Faldo and Tonieh are good examples of how posters who have few posts can do decent posts. Faldo is more pro Kuyt, Tonieh likes him less, but both make decent posts.

I disagree Faldo about sitting down Keane for Kuyt, but I agree his appreciation of Kuyt's game.

Some people on here seem to be holding a torch for Dirk Kuyt (and that's fair enough), but I am forced to wonder, would they be of the same opinion if he played for another team?

Of course not. We tend to cherish our players, and hate other club's no matter how they are. We all have that bias.

I don't consider Kuyt a great player, not at all, but I don't think he's an orange international because he's beautiful, he does a work that coaches obviously appreciate. It's not easy to be an orange international, and I disagree that some members try to undermine every merit that Kuyt achieves. Not talkin about you but the members who everytime Kuyt achieves something have a "but" for his achievement.

by **bigmick** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:37 pm

In truth, the problem is not Dirk Kuyt and his obvious shortcomings. The problem is that apart from the captain, he is still our best option dowqn the right. Despite the lack of pace, the miscontrols, the lack of awareness and vision, he's still our best option. I don't think even his detractors would disagree with that, and ultimately it's not Dirks fault. By and large, when he plays you know what you are going to get, lots of effort, the occasional goal off various parts of his anatomy etc etc.

He doesn't let anyone down, he pretty much plays the same in every game. The challenge is to buy somebody who can contribute more, but slagging off the fella for doing what he does can be done cheaply every game I suppose.

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