MANCHESTER CITY VS LIVERPOOL - Mon 23/8/2010 ko 20:00
by In and Out » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:25 am
wrist slashers happy we lost, fecking shysters the lot of them.
Football is a relatively simple game and Roy knows it 
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by Bermenstein » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:36 am
I hold my hands up!!
I messed up. Citeh pished on the Bumstain parade.
I watched the game in my mates gaff last night, who's a Manc. So that wrecked "the vibe".
But you'll be glad to know that I kicked his butt in Tiger Woods 11 on the Xbox, gettting -32 under par for 4 rounds of 18 holes. Every cloud...silver lining...
Dont Believe The Hype............ever again.
I messed up. Citeh pished on the Bumstain parade.
I watched the game in my mates gaff last night, who's a Manc. So that wrecked "the vibe".
But you'll be glad to know that I kicked his butt in Tiger Woods 11 on the Xbox, gettting -32 under par for 4 rounds of 18 holes. Every cloud...silver lining...
Dont Believe The Hype............ever again.
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by stmichael » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:36 am
We were poor last night but I'm not going to panic two games in, especially considering we've played two sides who will most likely finish above us this season. We were a few minutes away from having three points out of six from the two games. Listen City are better than us. The've spent £130m on new players where as we've spent sod all and it was evident last night. The scary thing is if they are challenging come January they can just go out and buy a few more players.
Oh and agree about the formation. 4-4-2 just isn't going to work against the top sides anymore.
Oh and agree about the formation. 4-4-2 just isn't going to work against the top sides anymore.
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by Ciggy » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:36 am
In and Out wrote:wrist slashers happy we lost, fecking shysters the lot of them.
How can anyone be happy we lost? Seriously.
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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by europian-kings » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:48 am
Bermenstein wrote:I hold my hands up!!
I messed up. Citeh pished on the Bumstain parade.
I watched the game in my mates gaff last night, who's a Manc. So that wrecked "the vibe".
But you'll be glad to know that I kicked his butt in Tiger Woods 11 on the Xbox, gettting -32 under par for 4 rounds of 18 holes. Every cloud...silver lining...
Dont Believe The Hype............ever again.
Don't worry mate.
I started the thread for our 4-0 home win against Real Madrid.
Im the new bermemstein...
It wasn't a good performance, but we must try and focus on getting 6 points from our next 2 league games now. It's a marathon not a sprint
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by Bermenstein » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:52 am
europian-kings wrote:Bermenstein wrote:I hold my hands up!!
I messed up. Citeh pished on the Bumstain parade.
I watched the game in my mates gaff last night, who's a Manc. So that wrecked "the vibe".
But you'll be glad to know that I kicked his butt in Tiger Woods 11 on the Xbox, gettting -32 under par for 4 rounds of 18 holes. Every cloud...silver lining...
Dont Believe The Hype............ever again.
Don't worry mate.
I started the thread for our 4-0 home win against Real Madrid.
Im the new bermemstein...
It wasn't a good performance, but we must try and focus on getting 6 points from our next 2 league games now. It's a marathon not a sprint
Its all yours mate.
Le Roi et Mort..Vive le Roi.......
I'm a Charlatan
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Bermenstein - LFC Super Member
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by In and Out » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:53 am
Ciggy wrote:In and Out wrote:wrist slashers happy we lost, fecking shysters the lot of them.
How can anyone be happy we lost? Seriously.
You and your little mob only reappear after a poor result, coincidence - I think not. feck off and support Inter if your still in love with Rafa, do us all a favour.
Football is a relatively simple game and Roy knows it
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by Benny The Noon » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:02 am
Once again it seems its the same old people bringing up the previous manager despite calls to the countary - it is the same old people telling fans to go and support another team - the same old people saying people are happy when we loose .
- Benny The Noon
by Benny The Noon » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:13 am
Man City 3-0 Liverpool: Hodgson’s 4-4-2 completely outplayed
August 23, 2010
The starting line-ups
A dominant performance from City, who weren’t flattered by the 3-0 scoreline.
Roberto Mancini made changes on his wings, bringing in James Milner and Adam Johnson for Shaun Wright-Phillips and David Silva. Mario Balotelli wasn’t fit, and Emmanuel Adebayor was omitted. Joleon Lescott played at left-back in the absence of Aleksandar Kolarov.
Roy Hodgson shifted away from the 4-4-1-1 he used against Arsenal, and went 4-4-2, with Fernando Torres and David Ngog starting together for the first time in the Premier League. Javier Mascherano was unavailable with a transfer apparently imminent, so Lucas Leiva played in the centre of midfield.
The two-man strikeforce looked promising for Liverpool when Ngog and Torres combined nicely on the edge of the City penalty area after three minutes, but this was, amazingly, the final time one completed a pass to the either in the entire match. After that, they offered the same option – neither is particularly comfortable dropping deep or to the flanks, and both struggled to become involved in build-up play.
Traditional 4-4-2 v 4-2-3-1 battle
The classic problem for a 4-4-2 against a 4-2-3-1 (or 4-3-3) is that it is outnumbered in the centre of midfield, and that was particularly evident today. laugh.gif no
! City’s three central midfielders were the same three used against Tottenham on the opening day, but they were used differently – Yaya Toure played high up the pitch, generally level with the two wingers (as he has done for the Ivory Coast), whilst Gareth Barry played a box-to-box role, starting alongside Nigel de Jong but also getting into the penalty area. And he did that to good effect on 13 minutes, when he sidefooted James Milner’s cutback into the far corner.
Liverpool’s problems going forward stemmed from the numerical disadvantage in the midfield. As they were 2 v 3 in that area, their wide players were forced to play extremely narrow to help Lucas and Gerrard, with Milan Jovanovic in particular barely getting near the touchline all game. Both he and Kuyt were decent defensively, but the narrowness meant there was never any out-ball when Liverpool regained possesion – and add in the fact that Torres and Ngog weren’t giving enough variation upfront, Liverpool looked clueless in possession.
Their midfield problems were emphasised when Carlos Tevez dropped deep, as he did so often at White Hart Lane. Today, he played a slightly more traditional striking role, but still moved into deep-lying positions that effectively created 4 v 2 in midfield, and allowed City to build up play easily and gradually around Liverpool’s midfielders. His passes are depicted below (see original link above)
Wingers cut in to dangerous effect
City’s problem against Tottenham was that Wright-Phillips and Silva saw little of the ball, but today in Milner and Johnson they had two wingers playing excellently. As Mancini favoured towards the end of last season, they were inverted, with Johnson on the right, and Milner generally on the left. Johnson caused Daniel Agger no end of problems in Liverpool’s left-back zone – and Agger looked completely uncomfortable dealing with the winger, not simply because he is not naturally a full-back, but also because Johnson was always looking to cut inside onto his left foot, towards Agger’s weaker right foot.
Perhaps the biggest problem with Liverpool playing a 4-4-2 is that it forces Steven Gerrard to play a very deep role, especially if he is playing alongside Lucas (rather than Javier Mascherano, who is much more able to cope by himself in the centre of midfield, as he does for Argentina). Following Liverpool’s disastrous final season under Rafael Benitez, a myth seems to have emerged that Gerrard is somehow better in the centre of midfield than he is playing just off Fernando Torres. Nothing could be further from the truth – Gerrard played the best football of his career at the head of a midfield three, and is much more subdued in a four. In a 4-4-2, he is too far from goal, unable to influence attacking moves, less likely to combine with Torres (a partnership that works well) and too likely to play wasteful diagonal balls that are easily intercepted. He didn’t have a particularly bad game, but he wasn’t in a position to inspire Liverpool.
Surprisingly, Hodgson opted to change nothing at half-time – Liverpool had rallied in the five minutes before the break, maybe convincing their manager to have faith in the 4-4-2. If Hodgson remains committed to that system long-term, then we must have patience with him, and understand that a change in formation rarely has instant results. But in the sole context of this game, Liverpool needed something different.
City continue dominance in second half
City’s second goal came from a corner kick. This was particularly interesting, since Benitez’s insistence on zonal marking was blamed whenever Liverpool conceded a goal from a set-piece. So will pundits point to man-marking as the reason why they conceded such a poor second goal? Probably not, but this element of Liverpool’s tactics is worth keeping an eye on in the next few months.
Liverpool had their best spell of the match just after going 2-0 down, when Joe Hart made an excellent double save, but City sealed the game in the 67th minute. Johnson yet again caused Liverpool problems, dribbling past two players, stumbling under their challenges, before Martin Skrtel came across and wiped him out with a crazy lunge. Tevez converted the penalty, and that was game over.
Conclusion
City won comfortably without ever playing spectacular football, which simply demonstrates how poor Liverpool were. The use of Toure further forward worked reasonably well (although he doesn’t look completely fit) and Mancini’s use of inverted wingers and a false nine was very successful – Tevez had a good game, Milner got two assists, and Johnson v Agger was probably the game’s key battle. With Silva and Balotelli waiting in the wings (literally), personnel might change, but this looks like being City’s first-choice formation this season.
Liverpool’s performance was extremely disappointing, and displayed all the classic failings of a 4-4-2. This is notoriously Hodgson’s favourite formation, but he has shown a willingness to venture towards a 4-2-3-1ish system in Fulham’s Europa League run. That still seems to be Liverpool’s best bet, but with Gerrard in the hole, rather than deep in midfield.
August 23, 2010
The starting line-ups
A dominant performance from City, who weren’t flattered by the 3-0 scoreline.
Roberto Mancini made changes on his wings, bringing in James Milner and Adam Johnson for Shaun Wright-Phillips and David Silva. Mario Balotelli wasn’t fit, and Emmanuel Adebayor was omitted. Joleon Lescott played at left-back in the absence of Aleksandar Kolarov.
Roy Hodgson shifted away from the 4-4-1-1 he used against Arsenal, and went 4-4-2, with Fernando Torres and David Ngog starting together for the first time in the Premier League. Javier Mascherano was unavailable with a transfer apparently imminent, so Lucas Leiva played in the centre of midfield.
The two-man strikeforce looked promising for Liverpool when Ngog and Torres combined nicely on the edge of the City penalty area after three minutes, but this was, amazingly, the final time one completed a pass to the either in the entire match. After that, they offered the same option – neither is particularly comfortable dropping deep or to the flanks, and both struggled to become involved in build-up play.
Traditional 4-4-2 v 4-2-3-1 battle
The classic problem for a 4-4-2 against a 4-2-3-1 (or 4-3-3) is that it is outnumbered in the centre of midfield, and that was particularly evident today. laugh.gif no
! City’s three central midfielders were the same three used against Tottenham on the opening day, but they were used differently – Yaya Toure played high up the pitch, generally level with the two wingers (as he has done for the Ivory Coast), whilst Gareth Barry played a box-to-box role, starting alongside Nigel de Jong but also getting into the penalty area. And he did that to good effect on 13 minutes, when he sidefooted James Milner’s cutback into the far corner.Liverpool’s problems going forward stemmed from the numerical disadvantage in the midfield. As they were 2 v 3 in that area, their wide players were forced to play extremely narrow to help Lucas and Gerrard, with Milan Jovanovic in particular barely getting near the touchline all game. Both he and Kuyt were decent defensively, but the narrowness meant there was never any out-ball when Liverpool regained possesion – and add in the fact that Torres and Ngog weren’t giving enough variation upfront, Liverpool looked clueless in possession.
Their midfield problems were emphasised when Carlos Tevez dropped deep, as he did so often at White Hart Lane. Today, he played a slightly more traditional striking role, but still moved into deep-lying positions that effectively created 4 v 2 in midfield, and allowed City to build up play easily and gradually around Liverpool’s midfielders. His passes are depicted below (see original link above)
Wingers cut in to dangerous effect
City’s problem against Tottenham was that Wright-Phillips and Silva saw little of the ball, but today in Milner and Johnson they had two wingers playing excellently. As Mancini favoured towards the end of last season, they were inverted, with Johnson on the right, and Milner generally on the left. Johnson caused Daniel Agger no end of problems in Liverpool’s left-back zone – and Agger looked completely uncomfortable dealing with the winger, not simply because he is not naturally a full-back, but also because Johnson was always looking to cut inside onto his left foot, towards Agger’s weaker right foot.
Perhaps the biggest problem with Liverpool playing a 4-4-2 is that it forces Steven Gerrard to play a very deep role, especially if he is playing alongside Lucas (rather than Javier Mascherano, who is much more able to cope by himself in the centre of midfield, as he does for Argentina). Following Liverpool’s disastrous final season under Rafael Benitez, a myth seems to have emerged that Gerrard is somehow better in the centre of midfield than he is playing just off Fernando Torres. Nothing could be further from the truth – Gerrard played the best football of his career at the head of a midfield three, and is much more subdued in a four. In a 4-4-2, he is too far from goal, unable to influence attacking moves, less likely to combine with Torres (a partnership that works well) and too likely to play wasteful diagonal balls that are easily intercepted. He didn’t have a particularly bad game, but he wasn’t in a position to inspire Liverpool.
Surprisingly, Hodgson opted to change nothing at half-time – Liverpool had rallied in the five minutes before the break, maybe convincing their manager to have faith in the 4-4-2. If Hodgson remains committed to that system long-term, then we must have patience with him, and understand that a change in formation rarely has instant results. But in the sole context of this game, Liverpool needed something different.
City continue dominance in second half
City’s second goal came from a corner kick. This was particularly interesting, since Benitez’s insistence on zonal marking was blamed whenever Liverpool conceded a goal from a set-piece. So will pundits point to man-marking as the reason why they conceded such a poor second goal? Probably not, but this element of Liverpool’s tactics is worth keeping an eye on in the next few months.
Liverpool had their best spell of the match just after going 2-0 down, when Joe Hart made an excellent double save, but City sealed the game in the 67th minute. Johnson yet again caused Liverpool problems, dribbling past two players, stumbling under their challenges, before Martin Skrtel came across and wiped him out with a crazy lunge. Tevez converted the penalty, and that was game over.
Conclusion
City won comfortably without ever playing spectacular football, which simply demonstrates how poor Liverpool were. The use of Toure further forward worked reasonably well (although he doesn’t look completely fit) and Mancini’s use of inverted wingers and a false nine was very successful – Tevez had a good game, Milner got two assists, and Johnson v Agger was probably the game’s key battle. With Silva and Balotelli waiting in the wings (literally), personnel might change, but this looks like being City’s first-choice formation this season.
Liverpool’s performance was extremely disappointing, and displayed all the classic failings of a 4-4-2. This is notoriously Hodgson’s favourite formation, but he has shown a willingness to venture towards a 4-2-3-1ish system in Fulham’s Europa League run. That still seems to be Liverpool’s best bet, but with Gerrard in the hole, rather than deep in midfield.
- Benny The Noon
by Ciggy » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:20 am
In and Out wrote:Ciggy wrote:In and Out wrote:wrist slashers happy we lost, fecking shysters the lot of them.
How can anyone be happy we lost? Seriously.
You and your little mob only reappear after a poor result, coincidence - I think not. feck off and support Inter if your still in love with Rafa, do us all a favour.
Ive been away for 16 days if thats ok I do have a life outside the forum you know Me and my little mob haha wrist slashers? Once again its you who is bringing Rafa up again.
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011
REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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Ciggy - >> LFC Elite Member <<
- Posts: 26826
- Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:36 pm
by Ben Patrick » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:21 am
Ciggy wrote:Our possession under Roy is appauling the last three games teams have had the majority of it and there where times last night we had 26 procent of it.
Even though under Rafa we had the majority of possession and didnt win we where mostly in control of a lot of games and had 26 shots on goal instead of 2 or 3.
Am i reading this right ?
Are you saying that under Rafa we had lots of goal attempts and we have none under Roy (so far) ?
We did control games under Rafa posession wise but struggled to create chances. Especially last season away from home.
Last night we conceded bad goals and they did have more posession but we created MORE chances than them.
From the bbc website.
MAN CITYLIVERPOOLPossession
Man City 65% Liverpool 35% Attempts on target
Man City 2 Liverpool 5 Attempts off target
Man City 4 Liverpool 6
Sabre looks like a big lezzer
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by stmichael » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:22 am
It still makes me laugh that certain fans turned their noses up when we were linked with both Adam Johnson and James Milner in the last couple of years because they "weren't good enough". No "we'd rather have David Silva". Yeah the David Silva who was on the bench last night.
Milner and Johnson would walk into our side at the moment. What's even more depressing is we could of had Gareth Bale aswell but refused to stump up the money.
Milner and Johnson would walk into our side at the moment. What's even more depressing is we could of had Gareth Bale aswell but refused to stump up the money.
Last edited by stmichael on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Benny The Noon » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:27 am
Ben Patrick wrote:Ciggy wrote:Our possession under Roy is appauling the last three games teams have had the majority of it and there where times last night we had 26 procent of it.
Even though under Rafa we had the majority of possession and didnt win we where mostly in control of a lot of games and had 26 shots on goal instead of 2 or 3.
Am i reading this right ?
Are you saying that under Rafa we had lots of goal attempts and we have none under Roy (so far) ?
We did control games under Rafa posession wise but struggled to create chances. Especially last season away from home.
Last night we conceded bad goals and they did have more posession but we created MORE chances than them.
From the bbc website.
MAN CITYLIVERPOOLPossession
Man City 65% Liverpool 35% Attempts on target
Man City 2 Liverpool 5 Attempts off target
Man City 4 Liverpool 6
well two of those chances were those ngog shots in first half which pee rolled up to Hart but the other three where those in that 30 second period when they blocked one and hart made two saves .
- Benny The Noon
by fivecups » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:27 am
stmichael wrote:It still makes me laugh that certain fans turned their noses up when we were linked with both Adam Johnson and James Milner in the last couple of years because they "weren't good enough". No "we'd rather have David Silva". Yeah the David Silva who was on the bench last night.
Milner and Johnson would walk into our side at the moment. What's even more depressing is we could of had Gareth Bale aswell but refused to stump up the money.
Add Barry to that and you have a top quality trio.
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by Ben Patrick » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:39 am
Benny The Noon wrote:Ben Patrick wrote:Ciggy wrote:Our possession under Roy is appauling the last three games teams have had the majority of it and there where times last night we had 26 procent of it.
Even though under Rafa we had the majority of possession and didnt win we where mostly in control of a lot of games and had 26 shots on goal instead of 2 or 3.
Am i reading this right ?
Are you saying that under Rafa we had lots of goal attempts and we have none under Roy (so far) ?
We did control games under Rafa posession wise but struggled to create chances. Especially last season away from home.
Last night we conceded bad goals and they did have more posession but we created MORE chances than them.
From the bbc website.
MAN CITYLIVERPOOLPossession
Man City 65% Liverpool 35% Attempts on target
Man City 2 Liverpool 5 Attempts off target
Man City 4 Liverpool 6
well two of those chances were those ngog shots in first half which pee rolled up to Hart but the other three where those in that 30 second period when they blocked one and hart made two saves .
not sure i get your point.
They were still goal attempts
Ciggy was saying (i think) that we created more chances under Rafa whilst controlling the game as well.
I disagree - if that's what she was saying. We did conrol plenty of games but created hardly a thing.
Away last season we were abysmal to watch.
The likes of the Stoke Hull and Wigan games.
Sabre looks like a big lezzer
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