Liverpool FC Forum

by **tubby** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:41 pm

bigmick wrote:
bigmick wrote:Well in truth if we're going to play the squad players in this, we'll have our work cut out and I hope nobody accuses me of being negative for saying it. They've got a celebrated bunch of kids and are at Home, so to get anything would be a great effort. Unfortunately while my @rse says headnall, my head says Arsenal. 2-1.

As it is though, now we have got ourselves back into a position where we aren't totally 100% out of the league, and given the fact we have some huge European games coming up, it wouldn't be a disaster by any means not to go through.

Got this one right as well unfortunately . I don't bet on correct scores as it's a mugs game, but I've got a few of ours right this season.

I think for your next trick you should predict when Rafa will be sacked.

Only messing mate.

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:05 am

Wasn't a bad game, was it?

Sure, it would have been nice to equalize, or even win it, but f*ck that. Just another game too many, but could have served well for the fringe players, most of which didn't look too bad up against the so called wonder kids. That commentating made me want to punch the screen, it was so biase you'd have thought Alan Smith was having a w@nk in the studio describing Arsenal's play at times, and not a peep when Insua scored that belter. What a complete pleb. Was worth tuning in to see that goal alone, and of course seeing Aquilani. As soon as he smacked that 50 yarder to Degen, I think it bacame instantly clear to everyone that we have a replacement to Xabi Alonso, only I think this lad has more talent than the Spaniard by far. We've found another bargain and a key player, provided he stays fit that is. I don't know about anyone else, but I got slightly worried when he attempted that overhead kick - nailed on pen, by the way - but that's just me being silly.

Negs - (or should I say dregs?) - of this game were Voronin and Babel. Two absolute gobshytes who just can't do the simple thing in context to the situation on the pitch. Someone should have a word in Babel's ear to tell him that it is occasionaly OK to attempt to use his left foot. Degen showed some good pace, but f*ck me, I'd be a better option than him at RB - and, yes, I am being serious about that. Showed some good pace at times, but when on the ball he just looks like a fawn trying to find it's feet for the first time. Can't be too harsh on him, though. He's been injured. What's the Pornin's and Babel's excuse?

by **LFC2007** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:07 am

Sabre wrote:I can't disagree that it's the good side of the game, but maybe it's that I don't like to be beaten again by Arsenal in a cup and would have liked a more competitive eleven. If you're going to give minutes to Aquilani, give them to him from the beginning for instance.

Also the let's play the reserve keeper is something I like when you can afford the luxury. And the fact is that both Arsenal beating us previously and lack of finals in home cups irks me a bit and I was hoping Rafa would try a tougher team.

However if he didn't is because he priorises the league, which is understandable.

I would've too. I think we could have had at least Agger or Carra in there, Reina, Lucas and Benayoun/Aurelio from the start. Added to that, Torres and/or Johnson on the bench.

I wouldn't be so quick to criticise over the timing of Aquilani's appearance. If he was only ever going to get 15-20 min's then it surely wouldn't have been sensible to do so from the off? That would've meant reforming the midfield half-way through the first half. Besides, he pulled out of a couple of challenges playing for the ressies and hadn't played for what, six months prior, so the aim has to be to gradually build his confidence and improve his match fitness.

by **Fowler_E7** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:07 am

im praying that Agger and Carragher stay fit for the rest of the season,beacuse Skretl and Kyriakos are poor, looked uncomfortable with anything on the floor tonight. Dont rate the pair of them at all. Voronin shouldnt have been anywhere near the pitch either disgrace of a player, and stupid of Rafa to pick him.

Overall we played fairly well and it was an entertaining game, cant helped but think that we could/should have nicked if the subs were correct but theres no shame in the defeat, as most of the players gave it a good go. I was pleased with N'gog especially, who i thought had his best game for us by a mile. First time he's ever impressed me in any sort of way, so lets hope thats a glimmer of hope for him being a decent player.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:45 am

Good performance from the fringe players - had the ref not been a total a*sehole and actually sent their 'keeper of and given us the rightful penalty following Senderos' handball, we would have been through to the next round.

B*stard officials.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:07 am

The truth is we played better than expected tonight (better than I expected anyway). But how many of those players would you turn down a reasonable offer (say £5million) for ? Insua (possibly) Skrtel (possibly) Kuyt (probably) as for the rest I would snatch the hand off anyone who would give us a decent price.

Which to me shows just how weak our squad is at the moment once you get past the first 15 or so names.

Happily I don't expect to see many of them too often again this season and hopefully some of them will be on there way shortly.

(obviously I am not including the players on the bench)

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:29 am

Sabre wrote:Well. If this was a friendly, I think Rafa would have picked the same players. Clearly he hasn't priorised this competition, he just seemed a friendly game to give minutes to some players and try a couple thing. It could have worked but it didn't and to be perfectly honest I would have liked to see a more competitive team. Spearing+Plessis was not competitive enough.

Walk on.

Javier was suspended, Lucas has Swine flu, Gerrard injured, Aquilani not match fit for a whole game, Aurelio certainly isn't worth risking playing in a competition like this and he isn't all that great at CM anyway. Didn't really have other CM options.

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:42 am

no idea why we offered Plessis a new contract. Spearing was better than against Sunderland, but not by a whole lot. What a goal from Insua, Degen bombed forward well, but I felt that he needed to play his passes earlier. Skrtel was our worst player, Cavalieri looked like he has barely played in the last 2 years, Ngog was good in the first half, but went missing in the 2nd, Yossi didn't do anything when he came on. Don't understand all the shots at Voronin, he worked very hard and had a lot of nice moments. You can blame the first goal on him, but it was still a very sweet strike from Merida. Babel is getting too much stick as well. His header set up our only goal, and he certainly had some other moments, I can think of a couple times when he did well to earn corners, really should have put away that chance though.

Can't wait for Aquilani to play more

by **Toffeehater** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:10 am

Babel , Insua , Ngog , Degen , Voronin , Kuyt were all good the rest were :censored:

. Krygiakos and Skrtel were playing together for the first time thus there was a lack of communication . I felt we did enough to get the equalizer and we certainly played better than expected espeically with the squad arsenal put out tonight. Wenger values this competition as his only chance to win silverware.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:34 am

I think that Degen's shown that he could be a useful player for us, when we play counter attacking football. He has amazing speed which can cause a lot of problems for teams who play a high defensive line.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:32 am

bigmick wrote:
Sabre wrote:When you look at Aquilani's face, you know he's focused.

I think that's because his eyes are quite close together Sabes.

I missed this one last night

by **Owzat** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:35 am

Not a bad performance overall, but a defeat at a time when even going out on penalties might have been something. Poor keeping imho for all three goals, quite why we paid £3m for a keeper to play SIX games in two seasons when we could have simply used Martin, a youth keeper or signed one of the keepers going cheap or on frees in the summer.

Again there are question marks over Rafa substitutions, just taking the SEVEN defeats there is a distinct pattern

L1-2 vs Arsenal (a) 74, 76, 88 - last goal scored in 50th minute
L1-2 vs Lyon (h) 25 (enforced), 74, 86 - last goal scored in 72nd minute
L0-1 vs Sunderland (a) 72, 73, 81 - beachball scored in the 5th minute
L0-2 vs Chelsea (a) 67, 76, 83 - Anelka scored in the 60th minute, the second came very late
L0-2 vs Fiorentina (a) 72, 80 - both goals scored before half-time, second in the 37th minute
L1-3 vs Aston Villa (h) 66, 76 - 0-2 down after 45
L1-2 vs Tottenham (a) 67, 75, 79 - last goal scored in the 59th minute.

So in those defeats, regardless of situation and too often unwilling to make double or triple substitutions :

1st substitution (7) - average 63rd minute, 70th if you exclude the enforced substitution
2nd substitution (7) - average 75th minute
3rd substitution (5) - average 83rd minute

In three of those games he waited until the 72nd minute or later to change things, technically it's four given the 25th minute change was not tactical and shouldn't really count. Maybe later changes can be forgiven when the side is winning, even not losing, but when you're losing and not playing that well, it is when changes are generally made. The last change is more or less token if you make it as late as Rafa does, five of the 19 subs came on with less than 10 minutes to make an impression. Maybe Rafa is worried about injuries being a factor late on with no subs left, but when you're losing that is a risk you have to take. There's no law saying you can't score with 10 men, in fact didn't we play 10 man Arsenal last season and they looked the better side............................?

by **tubby** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:31 am

s@int wrote:The truth is we played better than expected tonight (better than I expected anyway). But how many of those players would you turn down a reasonable offer (say £5million) for ? Insua (possibly) Skrtel (possibly) Kuyt (probably) as for the rest I would snatch the hand off anyone who would give us a decent price.

Which to me shows just how weak our squad is at the moment once you get past the first 15 or so names.

Happily I don't expect to see many of them too often again this season and hopefully some of them will be on there way shortly.

(obviously I am not including the players on the bench)

Sell Insua? That's a strange comment mate. Who would replace him wig seeing as Aurelio is injury prone. Would you rather see Dossena back? How are we ever going to get any youngsters through if we don't blood them in properly.

by **kunilson** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:00 am

not too disappointed with that. last night showed to me that our squad isnt as bad as people think, seeing as we were at least as good as them on the night i reckon.

most of what i wanna say has already been said but i was happy with aquilani, thought spearing's commitments was good and at times we passed the ball around well....lost our heads a bit in the second half when we should have done better chasing the game tho.

i agree voronin was poor but he had few moments good link up play, and i mean few.....babel is not game intelligent at all. for all the talent he apparently has you cant teach game intelligence, and he needs to either play more for experience (which he wont) or be sold.....

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:11 am

Owzat wrote:Not a bad performance overall, but a defeat at a time when even going out on penalties might have been something. Poor keeping imho for all three goals, quite why we paid £3m for a keeper to play SIX games in two seasons when we could have simply used Martin, a youth keeper or signed one of the keepers going cheap or on frees in the summer.

Again there are question marks over Rafa substitutions, just taking the SEVEN defeats there is a distinct pattern

L1-2 vs Arsenal (a) 74, 76, 88 - last goal scored in 50th minute
L1-2 vs Lyon (h) 25 (enforced), 74, 86 - last goal scored in 72nd minute
L0-1 vs Sunderland (a) 72, 73, 81 - beachball scored in the 5th minute
L0-2 vs Chelsea (a) 67, 76, 83 - Anelka scored in the 60th minute, the second came very late
L0-2 vs Fiorentina (a) 72, 80 - both goals scored before half-time, second in the 37th minute
L1-3 vs Aston Villa (h) 66, 76 - 0-2 down after 45
L1-2 vs Tottenham (a) 67, 75, 79 - last goal scored in the 59th minute.

So in those defeats, regardless of situation and too often unwilling to make double or triple substitutions :

1st substitution (7) - average 63rd minute, 70th if you exclude the enforced substitution
2nd substitution (7) - average 75th minute
3rd substitution (5) - average 83rd minute

In three of those games he waited until the 72nd minute or later to change things, technically it's four given the 25th minute change was not tactical and shouldn't really count. Maybe later changes can be forgiven when the side is winning, even not losing, but when you're losing and not playing that well, it is when changes are generally made. The last change is more or less token if you make it as late as Rafa does, five of the 19 subs came on with less than 10 minutes to make an impression. Maybe Rafa is worried about injuries being a factor late on with no subs left, but when you're losing that is a risk you have to take. There's no law saying you can't score with 10 men, in fact didn't we play 10 man Arsenal last season and they looked the better side............................?

Poor Keeping - Utter Cr@p- Why not give the credit to the goalscorers and just say they were fantastic strikes of which there isnt many keepers in the world which would of saved them .

As for Sub times pretty much every manager in the world makes changes from the 65th ish min onwards depending on the game - on the odd occasion you get a change at half time or in the 50th min ish but it is normally from the 65th min onwards . Last night they scored in the 50th so the team then gets another 10 -20 mins to tryand get a goal back and they nearly did when that isnt working then you change things for the last 20 mins to try and get a winner or equaliser . I noticed you havent posted stats for when we have brought subs on and they have scored or won the game for us .

A little quote for you that was posted by someone elsewhere

Statistics are like a lampost to a drunken man - more for leaning on than illumination.

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