Liverpool FC Forum

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:27 am

andy663 wrote:it was deflected off a beachball which was in an offside position.......

Yes even if that didn't happen you still would have only taken a point, which against sunderland is not enough.

Is this pleb serious? Didn't you bunch of kunts get beat by Burnley without the aid of a beachball?

by **Reg** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:37 am

Results have been papering over cracks at Manchester United Oliver Kay, Football Correspondent

Sir Alex Ferguson once famously described Manchester United as “a bus that waits for nobody”. But, as the final stragglers made their way out of the visiting team’s dressing room at Anfield and on to a waiting bus, only the catcalls and taunts from the locals will have distracted him from the feeling that his patience is being tested.

Nothing rankles with Ferguson more than losing to Liverpool, but far more troubling than the result was the manner of United’s 2-0 defeat. He is far more patient these days than eight years ago, when he sold Jaap Stam to Lazio with indecent and, he later admitted, regrettable haste, but how can he fail to be troubled by the travails of Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic, the lack of authority in his team’s midfield play and the continuing struggles of players such as Nani and Dimitar Berbatov to fill the huge void left by Cristiano Ronaldo?

It is necessary to put United’s defeat on Sunday into context; it followed a run of ten wins and a draw in their previous 11 games in all competitions and they remain four points clear of Liverpool and top in their Champions League group. Life after Ronaldo is not proving to be as unbearable as some supporters expected, yet Sunday’s result, like the subsequent inquest, had been coming.

These are strange times for United. If they are to be judged purely on results, there would appear little to worry about, particularly since Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool have also lost at least twice in the Barclays Premier League this season, but Ferguson is a manager who looks for performance. And at the moment he is not getting performances from Vidic, Ferdinand, Vidic, Berbatov, Nani or Michael Carrick, whose struggles can be traced back to the final months of last season, farther in Nani’s case.

Ferdinand and Vidic were undone by Fernando Torres when Liverpool won 4-1 at Old Trafford in March and their central-defensive partnership, previously regarded as the strongest in Europe, has not looked the same since. As Ferdinand has struggled with injuries and Vidic with a sudden sense of vulnerability when exposed to pacy strikers, they have had wobbles aplenty. If they were being subjected to the same scrutiny as Stam in 2001, one or other would be shipped off to Italy or Spain. A hunch — and at present it is only that, even if one source reacted suspiciously when the theory was put to him yesterday — is that such a scenario could arise next summer.

By then, of course, United could be celebrating a fourth consecutive Premier League title, such are the doubts that surround all of their rivals, bar possibly Chelsea, but will Ferguson be any closer to unravelling the enigma of Berbatov? The forward produced the odd sublime touch at Anfield, even showing signs that he had tuned into Wayne Rooney’s wavelength, but his noteworthy contributions for United — 17 goals and numerous assists in 57 matches since his £30.75 million move from Tottenham Hotspur — are in danger of being outweighed by frustration at his tendency to allow matches to pass him by.

Teething problems were inevitable for United. Ronaldo’s absence has not yet proved as damaging as might have been feared. But when Ferguson spoke on Sunday about a lack of penetration in their attacking play, it was hard to avoid the feeling that, with the most penetrative forward in world football now at Real Madrid, the United manager should have fought harder to spend some of the proceeds of that £80 million transfer on a winger such as Franck Ribéry or a striker such as Karim Benzema.

It is the midfield, though, that looks like the weakest area of this United team. Ferguson has an abundance of options — including Gabriel Obertan, the French youngster, who, having recovered from a back injury, will make his debut away to Barnsley in the Carling Cup this evening — but, with Owen Hargreaves still to return from the knee injury that has kept him out for 13 months, Carrick has looked short of confidence, while Anderson and Nani flatter to deceive.

That bus is said to wait for no one, but right now United have an awful lot of passengers looking to sit back and enjoy the ride.

•Sir Alex Ferguson has contacted the FA to admit a charge of improper conduct after claiming that Alan Wiley was “unfit” to referee, it was reported last night. The Manchester United manager has, however, asked for a personal hearing. Ferguson was charged for his comments in the wake of United’s 2-2 draw against Sunderland on October 3 and faces the possibility of a touchline ban and/or a fine.

by **Reg** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:54 am

Daily Telegraph

Liverpool v Manchester United: player ratings
How did the players fare as Liverpool beat Manchester United 2-0 in the Premier League football match at Anfield on Sunday Oct 25, 2009.

Liverpool 2 Manchester United 0

Pepe Reina
Other than clear a few pre-match beach-balls, the Liverpool keeper had little to do. Made a routine first-half save from Rooney. 6

Glen Johnson
Took a chance by playing his usual attack-minded game, despite being directly up against Ryan Giggs and Patrice Evra, but the full-back came through unscathed. 7

Jamie Carragher
Might be slowing up, but Carragher makes up for that in so many ways, even if one of them involved wrestling Michael Owen to the ground. Lucky to avoid red card. 8

Daniel Agger
It’s a good day for the Dane if he doesn’t make a mistake and this was one of his good days, although much of his sure-footing must go down to Carragher’s influence. 7

Emiliano Insua
United had plenty of joy down Insua’s flank with Valencia tormenting the young full-back. Not good enough to hold down a regular spot at a big four club. 5

Lucas
Not the most popular player on the Kop, but he was probably Liverpool’s best midfielder on this occasion. Broke up play and completed his task. 7

Javier Mascherano
The Argentine hasn’t played to his best all season and he was below par again. Luckily for him, Lucas covered up for his shortcomings before his injury-time dismissal for lunge on Edwin van der Sar. 5

Dirk Kuyt
Kuyt was a thorn in United’s side all afternoon. His work-rate was non-stop and he was always at the heart of the action for Liverpool. 7

Yossi Benayoun
A quiet game from the Israeli, but he produced the pass for Torres to score, so he justified his selection for that alone. 7

Fabio Aurelio
Not the most natural midfielder, but he gave Liverpool much-needed experience in the absence of the injured Steven Gerrard and also provided left-sided balance. 7

Fernando Torres
Looked troubled by his recent injury and was having one of his poorer games until he showed what he is all about with his goal. 7

Substitutes
David Ngog: On for Torres 81

Manchester United

Edwin van der Sar
Stunning double save to keep out Fabio Aurelio’s free-kick and Dirk Kuyt’s follow-up. No chance with either goal. 7

John O'Shea
Let himself down with some poor distribution in the first-half. Could be vulnerable once Wes Brown returns to full fitness. 5

Rio Ferdinand
Had looked confident and assured until he was exposed for pace by a half-fit Torres for Liverpool’s opening goal. Without his pace, Ferdinand drops into the ranks of mortals. 6

Nemanja Vidic
Had his nervous moments against Torres time and again before late dismissal. Has never been the same since being mauled by the Liverpool forward in 4-1 Old Trafford defeat last March. 5

Patrice Evra
If every United defender was like Evra, they would have no problems at all. Unbeatable at the back and adventurous going forward. Best left-back around. Booked. 7

Antonio Valencia
The Ecuadorean midfielder is growing into his role at United after a slow start following his summer move from Wigan. Produced some dangerous crosses. 7

Paul Scholes
At the hub of everything for United, although a rare moment of sloppiness almost led to a goal when he was dispossessed by Lucas. Faded in second-half. 6

Michael Carrick
Found it difficult to find a role for himself with Scholes so impressive and dominant alongside him, but his economy on the ball allowed United to boss the midfield. 6

Ryan Giggs
No wonder there is a campaign running to have him knighted! Never gave the ball away and his eye for a pass kept Liverpool on edge throughout. 7

Wayne Rooney
Looked short of his best following a two-week calf injury lay-off. One of his most uninspiring games in a United shirt, but he can put that down to lack of match fitness. 6

Dimitar Berbatov
No hiding the fact that he looks happier playing alongside Michael Owen than Rooney. Needs to do more than this to justify his club record price tag. Booked. 5

Substitutes

Michael Owen: On for Berbatov 74
Nani: On for Scholes 74

by **Toffeehater** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:00 am

Those ratings have got to be by a manc , masch one his poorer games???

by **made in UK** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:04 am

Woooo Hooooo just finnished partying! Well done Reds, best display all season.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:27 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAVE THAT, YOU MISERABLE, DOUBTING, RAFA-BASHING, IMBECILIC CUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh:

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:30 am

You couldn't make it up really could you :laugh:

by **made in UK** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:32 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAVE THAT, YOU MISERABLE, DOUBTING, RAFA-BASHING, IMBECILIC CUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You celebrate the win over the Mancs to insult fellow Reds?

Wow, that makes sense :Oo:

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:33 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAVE THAT, YOU MISERABLE, DOUBTING, RAFA-BASHING, IMBECILIC CUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha thought the same thing. Where are the Rafa bashers anyway? Only bother showing up when we have a bad result, eh?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:38 am

made in UK wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAVE THAT, YOU MISERABLE, DOUBTING, RAFA-BASHING, IMBECILIC CUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You celebrate the win over the Mancs to insult fellow Reds?

Wow, that makes sense

No. I celebrate by ramming it down the throats of anyone who shows a lack of respect towards the club, team and gaffer.

If that incorporates the deluded element of our fan base, so be it.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:38 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAVE THAT, YOU MISERABLE, DOUBTING, RAFA-BASHING, IMBECILIC CUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha thought the same thing. Where are the Rafa bashers anyway? Only bother showing up when we have a bad result, eh?

The sad c*nts are probably in hospital after slitting their wrists...

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:49 am

Naturally

It follows that obviously if you were thinking that losing four on the bounce wasn't that great, that you were gutted that we beat Man Utd. Similarly, if you were of the opinion that there was no reason that whouldn't be able to compete with Man Utd given the fact that we finished close to them last season and they have got rid of two huge players then you were wrong. In fact you were talking b0ll0cks, and you hate Rafa with a passion, and you're not a real fan.

by **Owzat** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:19 am

As a standalone result of course it was fantastic, but as some mancs are predictably bleating, is it not likely to be our "cup final" ? Perhaps what annoys me most is the players lifted their game for this one, a passion and determination somewhat absent in the previous four defeats.

And while we matched them, and created better chances, it took one excellent ball and finish to make the difference which is far from a convincing win. And a few crucial decisions which whiskeynose was fast to identify went in our favour, the fact that players like Carra, Mascherano and Lucas escaped cards when they could have shaped the game. Should Carra have seen red? I know the counter to that is Vidic could have seen red too, and maybe the odd complaint about what happens to Torres most weeks, but the fact is Vidic did see a second red and some might argue Torres does go down too often to be a foul every time.

I expect celebrations will conveniently gloss over the contribution of a certain Leiva Lucas. I've seen Kuyt getting criticised, especially for a cut-back probably intended for Torres but being intercepted by Benayoun. It's nice to see even in victory one or two singled out for criticism, the usual suspects.

But some are determined to get carried away, one win in the last five seemingly fixing everthing even though we're still six points off the top, other teams have a game in hand and we're in trouble in Europe having used up our two losses you can afford but still qualify. You don't lose four in a row without some kind of underlying problem, I know plenty are happy to blame the owners, a lack of money etc, but how does that work when we beat the champions? You can't have it both ways, or did we get lucky in which case is the criticism of those calling for Rafa's head justified?!?!? Those that defend Rafa to the end, the ones that predictably stand in front of any manager like a human shield but are way too blind to be objective in whether the manager is capable of winnig the league. If you'd looked at last season's performances, taken into account the TWELVE points we picked up against Chelsea and Man Utd were going to be hard to repeat, then you're actually at a starting point of 74 points. Then look at the hard to repeat unbeaten start, the difficult to repeat run-in of 10 wins in 11 and you might appreciate that the real test of the manager was not achieving second but proving it wasn't a one-off.

Great win, some good performances, but now those players need to show it wasn't just a one-off, prove they are good enough and that they can win without Gerrard and Torres being in the side. Or do those who often use (lack of) money as an excuse accept that players like Reina, Insua, Benayoun, Mascherano, Johnson etc are poor players, bought with no money (even though they cost near £50m between them) aren't good enough, that if we didn't pay £15m+ for the player or even as much as £30m then they can't be good enough and we can't possibly win the league?!?!?

by **Scottbot** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:55 am

Owzat wrote:As a standalone result of course it was fantastic, but as some mancs are predictably bleating, is it not likely to be our "cup final" ? Perhaps what annoys me most is the players lifted their game for this one, a passion and determination somewhat absent in the previous four defeats.

And while we matched them, and created better chances, it took one excellent ball and finish to make the difference which is far from a convincing win. And a few crucial decisions which whiskeynose was fast to identify went in our favour, the fact that players like Carra, Mascherano and Lucas escaped cards when they could have shaped the game. Should Carra have seen red? I know the counter to that is Vidic could have seen red too, and maybe the odd complaint about what happens to Torres most weeks, but the fact is Vidic did see a second red and some might argue Torres does go down too often to be a foul every time.

I expect celebrations will conveniently gloss over the contribution of a certain Leiva Lucas. I've seen Kuyt getting criticised, especially for a cut-back probably intended for Torres but being intercepted by Benayoun. It's nice to see even in victory one or two singled out for criticism, the usual suspects.

But some are determined to get carried away, one win in the last five seemingly fixing everthing even though we're still six points off the top, other teams have a game in hand and we're in trouble in Europe having used up our two losses you can afford but still qualify. You don't lose four in a row without some kind of underlying problem, I know plenty are happy to blame the owners, a lack of money etc, but how does that work when we beat the champions? You can't have it both ways, or did we get lucky in which case is the criticism of those calling for Rafa's head justified?!?!? Those that defend Rafa to the end, the ones that predictably stand in front of any manager like a human shield but are way too blind to be objective in whether the manager is capable of winnig the league. If you'd looked at last season's performances, taken into account the TWELVE points we picked up against Chelsea and Man Utd were going to be hard to repeat, then you're actually at a starting point of 74 points. Then look at the hard to repeat unbeaten start, the difficult to repeat run-in of 10 wins in 11 and you might appreciate that the real test of the manager was not achieving second but proving it wasn't a one-off.

Great win, some good performances, but now those players need to show it wasn't just a one-off, prove they are good enough and that they can win without Gerrard and Torres being in the side. Or do those who often use (lack of) money as an excuse accept that players like Reina, Insua, Benayoun, Mascherano, Johnson etc are poor players, bought with no money (even though they cost near £50m between them) aren't good enough, that if we didn't pay £15m+ for the player or even as much as £30m then they can't be good enough and we can't possibly win the league?!?!?

That's a good 'keep ya feet on the ground' post mate and bang on in many respects. Sunday means bugger all if we go out and lose to Fulham at the weekend.

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:37 am

bigmick wrote:I can't offer any sensbile reasoning to back it up, nor thankfully I should think for pretty much everyone any tactical analysis to explain why, but I am convinced we'll win this match and win it comfortably.

I fancy us to be absolutely all over Man Utd from minute one, to expose the fact that they aren't any great shakes themselves, and to win either 2-0 or 3-1.

My vain hope is that when we do, we can avoid the "so where are all the c...s now" posts from some of the died in the wool pro-Rafa people, and we can all just enjoy the win. God knows we need one.

Gotta feel good about that prediction. Not only did I get the score right, got the performance, Man Utd's performance, and the reaction of some people on here as well.

Full house :buttrock

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