Liverpool FC Forum

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:52 pm

It's one thing singling Kuyt out, and I can admit that I scrutinise him more than most other players when I watch the match.

What I do find baffling however, is where people fail to see his obvious limitations and accept that he is good enough to play for Liverpool FC when he plainly isn't.

by **burjennio** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:28 pm

Jimmy the Weasel Posted on Sep. 23 2008,13:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's one thing singling Kuyt out, and I can admit that I scrutinise him more than most other players when I watch the match.

What I do find baffling however, is where people fail to see his obvious limitations and accept that he is good enough to play for Liverpool FC when he plainly isn't.

what a ridiculous comment. hes a starter every week so clearly he is. Yes he has limitations but so do most players. Simply because the guy isnt graceful on the ball doesnt mean hes a poor player.

If a player, with obvious limitations like Dirk Kuyt, draws a lot of flak, you have to ask why. It would be rare that a player would recieve so much "bad press" from their own team's fans for no reason at all.

he recieves it from a few on here, not the majority of fans. Go to Anfield you wont here anything like that kind of dislike for him

by **Toffeehater** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:38 pm

burjennio wrote:
heimdall Posted on Sep. 23 2008,11:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (burjennio @ Sep. 23 2008,10:37)
Quote
Fo Dne Posted on Sep. 22 2008,19:21
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Its not singling out Kuyt at all.

Its being realistic, again the amount of moves that broke down through him was an embarresment. Its becoming a joke, he's not upto it, especially when played there. The reason supporters are annoyed and making him "a scapegoat" as the moron's like to say its because its not once in a while, its every week and its never a suprise. Everytime we lose, he's the worst player and everything breaks down through him. When we win everything still breaks down through him...

Are people really that stupid they can't see that?

Do you have any idea as a player how frustrating it is playing with a player that you know, everytime he has the ball will lose it or play the wrong pass?

It destroys you're confidence and concentration and stops you yourself getting any sort of rhythm. Its not even like he just picks the wrong pass, most of the time he actually loses the ball completely.

That is totally untrue, every time he has the ball he will lose it? Il agree that he should not be playin right mid in a 442 but come on, if the players thought he was as bad as some of you they would show it (think Gerrards reactions to Traore or Voronin whenever they fecked up) the guys a DUTCH INTERNATIONAL ffs, so clearly you are in the minority in your opinions

Yes well judging by your sig you are clearly completely unbiased on this matter aren't you, tell me what you like best about Kuyt then, is it his pin point passes, imaginative and creative playing style or his incredible shots at goal??

biased. OMG im biased for sticking up for and seeing the plus side of a player playing in a LIVERPOOL SHIRT. if you look back thru this thread ive highlighted Kuyts qualities several times, and shot down all the stupid, groundless and at times downright spiteful remarks with cold hard FACTS.

As for my sig, i created it last year when Kuyt was in fact playing BADLY, tongue in cheek, and on as few occasions stated that I thought he wasn't good enough. I however, unlike some admitted when his form drastically improved from February onwards that I had been far to quick to judge a player especially around a time when the club as a whole was in disarray and the man had just lost his father, who he admitted had been the biggest influece on his life. The sig is now a reminder to me and all others that we can all be far to quick to judge and damn, especially on a subject we all overvalue are own opinions on, football.

I'l add this to any previous arguments Ive made about Kuyt. If you are of the opinion that Dirk Kuyt has been LFCs worst player this season, continually damning him and blaming him for dropped points and bad performances then you are definately, definately making a biased remark and a scapegoat because there are currently many performers on that teamsheet that are playing far below the level expected of them, and they ARE playing in their favoured positions.

Spot on

by **tonyeh** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:04 pm

burjennio wrote:
If a player, with obvious limitations like Dirk Kuyt, draws a lot of flak, you have to ask why. It would be rare that a player would recieve so much "bad press" from their own team's fans for no reason at all.

he recieves it from a few on here, not the majority of fans. Go to Anfield you wont here anything like that kind of dislike for him

Well, then our experience is different. Kuyt is a hot topic among the Liverpool fans that I know, both physical and virtual. Add into that football commentators and pundits opinions and you have quite a lot of talk about the lad.

It never ceases to make me laugh though...If Dirk Kuyt played for another team, I can't help feeling that the support for his footballing ability would be nil from some of his "supporters".

by **metalhead** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:11 pm

He isn't poor player by any means. He has his strengths and he has weakness. He is a good player, not a top player, good player at best, which makes him a good backup. However, he isn't good enough for a title winning team.

by **kazza** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:20 pm

Fo Dne wrote:Its not singling out Kuyt at all.

Its being realistic, again the amount of moves that broke down through him was an embarresment. Its becoming a joke, he's not upto it, especially when played there. The reason supporters are annoyed and making him "a scapegoat" as the moron's like to say its because its not once in a while, its every week and its never a suprise. Everytime we lose, he's the worst player and everything breaks down through him. When we win everything still breaks down through him...

Are people really that stupid they can't see that?

Do you have any idea as a player how frustrating it is playing with a player that you know, everytime he has the ball will lose it or play the wrong pass?

It destroys you're confidence and concentration and stops you yourself getting any sort of rhythm. Its not even like he just picks the wrong pass, most of the time he actually loses the ball completely.

Your Sunday league experiences have no relevance.

If it as you say, the rest of the team will not pass him the ball and freeze him out of the game, players know who to pass too afterall. They pass to him regularly so therfore they must see his worth on the team. He is not a highly skillfull player but he works hard for the team and earns his place untill something better comes along. Deal with it!

Every coach he has had cannot know less than you, surely?

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:49 pm

Owzat wrote:
banana wrote:And also Stu. If he was a good player this debate would never have happened.

I can't see a thread named: Mascherano, peace everyone

or

Torres, peace everyone.

I'll go start one shall I, what will it prove? Consensus of opinion never proved anything, most mancs thought they'd beat us as usual. All that a "Dirk Kuyt - Peace Everyone" thread proves is people will slate some players for no good reason as they want him out and refuse to give him a fair chance. It's a growing OPINION and myths spread faster than wildfire. Liverpool did not fail to beat Stoke because Dirk Kuyt had a stinker, there were NINE other outfield players and if they're so much better than Kuyt how come they didn't score either?

I am AMAZED at your backing of Kuyt compared with the flack you gave Crouch for two seasons

Beggars belief, it really does.
Its great that you are backing him, thats what fans will hopefuly do at the game where giving him stick or even moaning and groaning can have an adverse affect on a players confidence.
But this is a forum that he wont read (well i think it highly unlikely

) so people who are airing there opinions are doing nothing wrong.
There is no denying the fact that he is the weak link of our attacking play, if you cant see that then there should be alarm bells ringing in your ears.
Am not saying by that he is sh!te, he does he job always gives his all and some games can do well, BUT he is simply not upto the role we require of him, no amount of running round will solve this problem.
What Stu Fo Dne says about attacks constantly breaking down is spot on, he either miscontrols it or checks back allowing the whole defence to re-group wasting great positions time and again.
Its probably not his fault, he shouldnt even be there in the first place, Rafa has had time to solve the problem and has known about it for years and its still our worst position...or one of them anyway.

Now you are criticising Keane, yea i agree he has looked poor (so far) but he is starting at a new club, different surroundings style of play etc, not a total excuse but something that will of had a bearing on his performances, the lad is a million miles a better player than Kuyt and given time he will prove his worth (not 20 million btw)
Kuyt has had his chance in his favourite position for over half a season last year and failed miserably.
Lets give Keane a chance eh and lets all admit Kuyt is not sh!te but he is also the weak link of our attack and should only really be a bit part player.

by **LFC1982** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:02 pm

Agree that Kuyt is the weak link in attack, I like the lad but for me he should be 3rd choice striker not 1st choice right midfielder, he just doesn't posess the pace or craft needed for this position, he is a goal threat up front and think he's maybe worth 12 league goals a season but hard work up and down the flanks shouldn't be enough to warrant a place when he's playing out of position.

For me the right Mid/Wing slot belongs to Pennant/Babel or even stick Gerrard out there, the strikers need consistant balls into the area and although Kuyt does provide the occasional good ball in, it just doesn't happen often enough!!!

As for Pennant yes I know his delivery is pretty shi.te 99% of the time and Babels first touch is a pass to the opposition!!!

by **LFC2007** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:05 pm

Stu, who would you rather have in your Sunday League team, Babel or Kuyt?

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:30 am

burjennio wrote:
Jimmy the Weasel Posted on Sep. 23 2008,13:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's one thing singling Kuyt out, and I can admit that I scrutinise him more than most other players when I watch the match.

What I do find baffling however, is where people fail to see his obvious limitations and accept that he is good enough to play for Liverpool FC when he plainly isn't.

what a ridiculous comment. hes a starter every week so clearly he is. Yes he has limitations but so do most players. Simply because the guy isnt graceful on the ball doesnt mean hes a poor player.

If a player, with obvious limitations like Dirk Kuyt, draws a lot of flak, you have to ask why. It would be rare that a player would recieve so much "bad press" from their own team's fans for no reason at all.

he recieves it from a few on here, not the majority of fans. Go to Anfield you wont here anything like that kind of dislike for him

Now we truly are in the realms of :censored:

statements aren't we?!

Nicky Tanner used to be a regular starter too, was he good enough to play for Liverpool FC?

If he was clumsy but talented I wouldn't give a :censored:

how he looked. Kuyt offers the same energy levels as a young springer spaniel with the same level of attacking prowess..

by **maguskwt** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:58 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
Owzat wrote:
banana wrote:And also Stu. If he was a good player this debate would never have happened.

I can't see a thread named: Mascherano, peace everyone

or

Torres, peace everyone.

I'll go start one shall I, what will it prove? Consensus of opinion never proved anything, most mancs thought they'd beat us as usual. All that a "Dirk Kuyt - Peace Everyone" thread proves is people will slate some players for no good reason as they want him out and refuse to give him a fair chance. It's a growing OPINION and myths spread faster than wildfire. Liverpool did not fail to beat Stoke because Dirk Kuyt had a stinker, there were NINE other outfield players and if they're so much better than Kuyt how come they didn't score either?

I am AMAZED at your backing of Kuyt compared with the flack you gave Crouch for two seasons
Beggars belief, it really does.
Its great that you are backing him, thats what fans will hopefuly do at the game where giving him stick or even moaning and groaning can have an adverse affect on a players confidence.
But this is a forum that he wont read (well i think it highly unlikely ) so people who are airing there opinions are doing nothing wrong.
There is no denying the fact that he is the weak link of our attacking play, if you cant see that then there should be alarm bells ringing in your ears.
Am not saying by that he is sh!te, he does he job always gives his all and some games can do well, BUT he is simply not upto the role we require of him, no amount of running round will solve this problem.
What Stu Fo Dne says about attacks constantly breaking down is spot on, he either miscontrols it or checks back allowing the whole defence to re-group wasting great positions time and again.
Its probably not his fault, he shouldnt even be there in the first place, Rafa has had time to solve the problem and has known about it for years and its still our worst position...or one of them anyway.

Now you are criticising Keane, yea i agree he has looked poor (so far) but he is starting at a new club, different surroundings style of play etc, not a total excuse but something that will of had a bearing on his performances, the lad is a million miles a better player than Kuyt and given time he will prove his worth (not 20 million btw)
Kuyt has had his chance in his favourite position for over half a season last year and failed miserably.
Lets give Keane a chance eh and lets all admit Kuyt is not sh!te but he is also the weak link of our attack and should only really be a bit part player.

Kuyt is better than El Hadji Diouf...

by **Ace Ventura** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:32 am

If we wanted a player to play wide right in a 4-4-2 i would have Diouf over Kuyt (based on ability) any day of the week.

But obviously Diouf was a horrible c'nt that nobody would ever want back at Anfield.

by **burjennio** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:36 pm

Jimmy the Weasel Posted on Sep. 24 2008,01:30
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (burjennio @ Sep. 23 2008,15:28)
Quote
Jimmy the Weasel Posted on Sep. 23 2008,13:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's one thing singling Kuyt out, and I can admit that I scrutinise him more than most other players when I watch the match.

What I do find baffling however, is where people fail to see his obvious limitations and accept that he is good enough to play for Liverpool FC when he plainly isn't.

what a ridiculous comment. hes a starter every week so clearly he is. Yes he has limitations but so do most players. Simply because the guy isnt graceful on the ball doesnt mean hes a poor player.

Quote
If a player, with obvious limitations like Dirk Kuyt, draws a lot of flak, you have to ask why. It would be rare that a player would recieve so much "bad press" from their own team's fans for no reason at all.

he recieves it from a few on here, not the majority of fans. Go to Anfield you wont here anything like that kind of dislike for him

Now we truly are in the realms of statements aren't we?!

Nicky Tanner used to be a regular starter too, was he good enough to play for Liverpool FC?

If he was clumsy but talented I wouldn't give a how he looked. Kuyt offers the same energy levels as a young springer spaniel with the same level of attacking prowess..

in the realms of what statements? This from a guy who just compared a professional footballers skill levels to that of a small dog. why dont you just get off the guys back, stop playing the same old record and get behind your team? All you do is shoot him down, give zero examples of when he has apparantly been "the weak link" and make stupid little metaphors and anacdotes to make yourself feel clever. Maybe its time to give it a break :idea

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:16 pm

burjennio wrote:
Jimmy the Weasel Posted on Sep. 24 2008,01:30
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (burjennio @ Sep. 23 2008,15:28)
Quote
Jimmy the Weasel Posted on Sep. 23 2008,13:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's one thing singling Kuyt out, and I can admit that I scrutinise him more than most other players when I watch the match.

What I do find baffling however, is where people fail to see his obvious limitations and accept that he is good enough to play for Liverpool FC when he plainly isn't.

what a ridiculous comment. hes a starter every week so clearly he is. Yes he has limitations but so do most players. Simply because the guy isnt graceful on the ball doesnt mean hes a poor player.

Quote
If a player, with obvious limitations like Dirk Kuyt, draws a lot of flak, you have to ask why. It would be rare that a player would recieve so much "bad press" from their own team's fans for no reason at all.

he recieves it from a few on here, not the majority of fans. Go to Anfield you wont here anything like that kind of dislike for him

Now we truly are in the realms of statements aren't we?!

Nicky Tanner used to be a regular starter too, was he good enough to play for Liverpool FC?

If he was clumsy but talented I wouldn't give a how he looked. Kuyt offers the same energy levels as a young springer spaniel with the same level of attacking prowess..

in the realms of what statements? This from a guy who just compared a professional footballers skill levels to that of a small dog. why dont you just get off the guys back, stop playing the same old record and get behind your team? All you do is shoot him down, give zero examples of when he has apparantly been "the weak link" and make stupid little metaphors and anacdotes to make yourself feel clever. Maybe its time to give it a break

The realms of bulls hit statements. It got censored, see?

I also answered the suggestion that because he starts regularly, Kuyt is somehow deemed a good enough player - I missed the reply to my question about Nicky Tanner...

Kuyt's touch is poor, he slows attacks down with his "running in treacle" pace, he's either a striker who often looks terrified to shoot or a right winger who doesnt have the craft or guile to beat a man.

Yes he works his :censored:

off and runs all day and I admire that - I bet he can't believe his luck playing for our great club. I'd be happier if he worked slightly less hard and was slightly more technically gifted and talented as a footballer.

But he isn't, so instead of being allowed to criticise, we have to lower the bar of what's acceptable standard at LFC, and get blinkered idiots like you telling us that "working hard" is suddenly enough to justify a starting place in the team.

Oh, and despite all this, when I'm at the game, Kuyt, like the rest of the team, gets my 110% backing DESPITE all these blatant deficiencies, so telling me to get behind the team by posting on an internet messageboard seems a bit of a stupid suggestion... and par for the course apparently.

Or does he post on here too?

by **burjennio** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:35 pm

The realms of bulls hit statements. It got censored, see?

I also answered the suggestion that because he starts regularly, Kuyt is somehow deemed a good enough player - I missed the reply to my question about Nicky Tanner...

Kuyt's touch is poor, he slows attacks down with his "running in treacle" pace, he's either a striker who often looks terrified to shoot or a right winger who doesnt have the craft or guile to beat a man.

Yes he works his off and runs all day and I admire that - I bet he can't believe his luck playing for our great club. I'd be happier if he worked slightly less hard and was slightly more technically gifted and talented as a footballer.

But he isn't, so instead of being allowed to criticise, we have to lower the bar of what's acceptable standard at LFC, and get blinkered idiots like you telling us that "working hard" is suddenly enough to justify a starting place in the team.

Oh, and despite all this, when I'm at the game, Kuyt, like the rest of the team, gets my 110% backing DESPITE all these blatant deficiencies, so telling me to get behind the team by posting on an internet messageboard seems a bit of a stupid suggestion... and par for the course apparently.

Or does he post on here too?

running in treacle. scared to shoot. can't beat a man.

every one of those statements is false. and you have the cheek to call me a blinkered idiot. You also will go to the ground and get behind the player only to come onto message boards like this and cry and whinge like a baby. That makes you two faced. And how can you possibly compare a defender from 15 odd years ago to a forward player of today? Cause he was a poor player? He was moved on because of that, as were the rest of that medicore back line. Rafa has no plans to move on Kuyt, Why? because he knows hes a good player from working with him every day, as do his team mates. So if your gonna spout opinionated garbage and drop little passive-aggressive insults why dont you at least give practical and specific examples so you at least have a shred of clout. Otherwise go back to supporting whoever it was you follwed pre May 2005

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