Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:01 pm

leon, as i put, here are the total league games thus far:

League 44 (9) 14 2 0 kuyt
League 45 (5) 14 2 0 Berbatov
League 36 (11) 5 1 0 Shevchenko
League 52 (9) 19 2 0 Adeboyer
League 47 (2) 23 9 0 McCarthy
League 40 (1) 12 4 0 AJ (spit)

kuyt not looking as bad now eh?

by **Rafa D** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:06 pm

I was a bit surprised to read that this morning over my bowl of Choco-krispes (which by the way is not fit to lick the nads of Coco and his cocopops).

I don't think Kuyt has played badly, well not as bad as some are suggesting this early in the season, but I don't agree with him on the fact that he is on top of his game. I'd also bet a fair wedge that when Crouch or Voronin reads that there will be a fair few smirks and a thought of "what a cheeky b@stard!".

His goalscoring prowess this season, as it has been mentioned, has not been good enough for a forward. Yes he has had to deal with the rotation from Rafa, but he has had a better whack at it than Crouch and Crouch seems to have done better than Kuyt in his limited starts.

However I feel Kuyt still has a major part to play for Liverpool and especially when he is partnering Fernando Torres. For me Voronin and Kuyt does not work on any level, they both make each other look terrible, Crouch and Kuyt can work and Torres and Kuyt DOES work. Kuyt complements Torres brilliantly and this should be our first choice(are those words allowed at Melwood). When these two have played together, they look the business. Voronin for all his qualities is a decent striker in a good team and he is getting found out, Crouch has proved time and time again not to knock him and Torres is our best striker for 2 - 3 years.

I expect Kuyt to carry on playing, and when Torres is fully fit, a Kuyt/Torres partnership should put this Dirk bashing season to bed.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:06 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:It makes me laugh that people keep trying to prove a point by manipulating the FACTS.

McCarthy 32 goals since joining Blackburn
Berbatov 26 goals since joining Spurs
Kuyt 19 goals since joining Liverpool
Shevchenko17goals since joining Chelsea

Pot kettle black mate.

You dont state when they joined mate, and its important to consider how many games they have plyed is it not ?

They all started with their present clubs the same season, none of them have had a serious injury since joining their clubs, so it really boils down to managers preferance and how successful they and their clubs are as to how many games they have played.

Even I can do it

That was the point of my post mate.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:17 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:I was a bit surprised to read that this morning over my bowl of Choco-krispes (which by the way is not fit to lick the nads of Coco and his cocopops).

I don't think Kuyt has played badly, well not as bad as some are suggesting this early in the season, but I don't agree with him on the fact that he is on top of his game. I'd also bet a fair wedge that when Crouch or Voronin reads that there will be a fair few smirks and a thought of "what a cheeky b@stard!".

His goalscoring prowess this season, as it has been mentioned, has not been good enough for a forward. Yes he has had to deal with the rotation from Rafa, but he has had a better whack at it than Crouch and Crouch seems to have done better than Kuyt in his limited starts.

However I feel Kuyt still has a major part to play for Liverpool and especially when he is partnering Fernando Torres. For me Voronin and Kuyt does not work on any level, they both make each other look terrible, Crouch and Kuyt can work and Torres and Kuyt DOES work. Kuyt complements Torres brilliantly and this should be our first choice(are those words allowed at Melwood). When these two have played together, they look the business. Voronin for all his qualities is a decent striker in a good team and he is getting found out, Crouch has proved time and time again not to knock him and Torres is our best striker for 2 - 3 years.

I expect Kuyt to carry on playing, and when Torres is fully fit, a Kuyt/Torres partnership should put this Dirk bashing season to bed.

I think you are wrong Rafa. Kuyt is being asked to play the role usually given to a creative second striker, someone with sublime touch, vision, and great passing. He is trying to fill that role with hard work, limited passing and a poor first touch. He is never going to fill it well, he cant handle playing the main striker because he is too slow, poor touch, limited heading ability and doesnt make space for himself.

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:21 pm

saint, you are including cup gameas and all that where we dont use first teams as much as smaller clubs like blackburnm and spurs, so of course there main strikers would have scored more over all, but we need to look at the league, which you are not.

berbatov with a first team midfield would scre more against northampton than kuyt would using players who have never played together put together for a nothing game

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:24 pm

dawson99 wrote:saint, you are including cup gameas and all that where we dont use first teams as much as smaller clubs like blackburnm and spurs, so of course there main strikers would have scored more over all, but we need to look at the league, which you are not.

berbatov with a first team midfield would scre more against northampton than kuyt would using players who have never played together put together for a nothing game

But then again we have a much better team than Blackburn and Spurs so isn't that just as unfair?

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:28 pm

no, not when spurs are playing blaupunkt fc from the austrian 3rd division in the uefa cup using there first team!

in league terms, kuyt and berbatov are exactly level, but kuyt has been sub more and played one less game

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:35 pm

Or to put it another way, we would be very lucky to get back what we paid for Kuyt, Spurs will double their money on Berbatov.

As I said we can manipulate the stats, but at the end of the day, most of us recognise he's not good enough for us.

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:36 pm

no saint, if u look at THE STATS, you will see that kuyt has scored the SAME goals as Berbatov in ONE LESS GAME and being used as asub more often

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:47 pm

dawson99 wrote:no saint, if u look at THE STATS, you will see that kuyt has scored the SAME goals as Berbatov in ONE LESS GAME and being used as asub more often

No Dawson if you look at the stats

McCARTHY APPEARANCES 66 SCORED 32 GOALS PRICE £2.5M
Berbatov APPEARANCES 65 SCORED 26 GOALS PRICE £10M
KUYT APPEARANCES 62 SCORED 19 GOALS PRICE £10M

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:47 pm

But, Dawson, if you watch them play you'll see that Berbatov is the more skillful player. This is obviously a swings and roundabouts debate when you look at the stats but I'll trust what I've seen them both do on the pitch. And, I'm with Saint--Kuyt's a great lad and a hard grafter but he's not skilllful enough to play a large part in a title-challenging side. Now, if he were our fourth choice striker, that would be one thing but even at his very best he's not got enough in his locker to be the optimal foil for Torres, IMHO.

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:49 pm

if berbatov is so effing brilliant, how has he scored just as many goals as kuyt?

berbatov is a better footballer, but kuyt can hit the target, and when he does again you lot will all eat humble pie. im only talking about the league, dont care about mickey mouse goals for little cups.

berbatov this season has been a horrible person and horrible player. did anyone watch him play last week? 3 minutes in and hes hands on hips not doing a thing!!! lets swap and get diouff back, dont worry about his attitude or the spitting?

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:54 pm

dawson99 wrote:if berbatov is so effing brilliant, how has he scored just as many goals as kuyt?

berbatov is a better footballer, but kuyt can hit the target, and when he does again you lot will all eat humble pie. im only talking about the league, dont care about mickey mouse goals for little cups.

berbatov this season has been a horrible person and horrible player. did anyone watch him play last week? 3 minutes in and hes hands on hips not doing a thing!!! lets swap and get diouff back, dont worry about his attitude or the spitting?

I have already said in Leon's poll I don't want us to sign Berbatov. This thread is about if Kuyt is good enough, not about if Berbatov is a little shiite or not.

There are plenty better strikers we could get with £10m Dawson (Not that we would get £10m for Kuyt now :down:

)

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:54 pm

dawson99 wrote:if berbatov is so effing brilliant, how has he scored just as many goals as kuyt?

berbatov is a better footballer, but kuyt can hit the target, and when he does again you lot will all eat humble pie. im only talking about the league, dont care about mickey mouse goals for little cups.

berbatov this season has been a horrible person and horrible player. did anyone watch him play last week? 3 minutes in and hes hands on hips not doing a thing!!! lets swap and get diouff back, dont worry about his attitude or the spitting?

Fine, we'll leave Berbatov out of it, as that comparison's got its own thread already. Kuyt, in and of himself, isn't good enough. Even when he's in top form he doesn't create enough chances for himself nor for his teammates and he certainly doesn't have a natural scoring instinct. His touch is heavy, he snatches at chances, he's too static in and around the box and his ability to pick a pass is not up to the standard needed for a second striker partnering a talent like Fernando Torres. He's a decent bloke, a hard grafter and an absolutely model professional but we need better players than him up top if we are to compete for the title.

by **dawson99** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:54 pm

just the shport memories you people have. its a dry spell. last season he got a lot of valuable goals for us, and i think he'll do the same this season

and bob, in that case, we need to get rid of: kuyt, crouch, pennant, about 5 other players, spend another 50 million..where does it end?

kuyt scored for us last season, and hes good enough to do it this season. there has to be a point where stop buying the titel and working with the players we have. too often in the past have we just chucked someone weve spent a lot on after one season and try again... this time we gotta grind it out, and thats rafas job

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