Liverpool FC Forum

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:37 pm

tonyeh wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
puroresu wrote:The team today and the bench says it all. We have far too many poor to average players at the club.

That team put out was well capable, so don't be under any illusions that it wasn't. The first half proved that. For some inexplicable reason, they lost their balls in the second half. Just a series of individual errors that let them back into the match and some of these lot just didn't know how to deal with it. F*ckin gobshytes. The ref went a bit mental with those red cards. You always knew that after the United game that if Carra even made the same kind of error, or even slipped and trailed a player down by mistake, that he'd be instantly red carded. The refs in this league have no f*cking balls, and never have.

We seemed to give up as soon as Torres went off (injury or rafa? ) who knows why !

True. I noticed. That's the million dollar question. There are sometimes you can see why and it's obvious, but that has me baffled. The silly b@stard should know better, because as soon as he makes a decision like this, it's going to be blown into catastropic proportions if it goes t*ts up, which it did.

To be fair (and I am no Rafa lover) Torres wasn't having a good game apart from his goal, and was taking a lot of heavy punishment. I don't think the team should have buckled like they did.

Yeh, but taking him off Saint completely destroyed the team and taking off the others couldn't have done anything for the team either.

If I was on the pitch and saw the manager making those decisions I would have given up too.

If the gaffer doesn't give a fuck about making a go for the Premiership, why should I?

One could argue that Dirk Kuyt's moment of stupidy lead to the complete capitulation of the side. From that moment on, everything went horrifically wrong.

Perhaps, but the oportunity for at least a draw (which we'd all take now) was still there.

Torres showed in the first half that he can make something out of nothing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Benitez is losing the dressing room. The lads shaking their heads today at being brought off speaks volumes.

He's not losing the dressing room. That's just the kind of sensationalist bollox papers like The S*n would write up. Yossi probably felt that he was playing well and wanted to stay on. It's normal for a player to disagree with being taken off at times.

by **Dazzer** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:38 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
puroresu wrote:The team today and the bench says it all. We have far too many poor to average players at the club.

That team put out was well capable, so don't be under any illusions that it wasn't. The first half proved that. For some inexplicable reason, they lost their balls in the second half. Just a series of individual errors that let them back into the match and some of these lot just didn't know how to deal with it. F*ckin gobshytes. The ref went a bit mental with those red cards. You always knew that after the United game that if Carra even made the same kind of error, or even slipped and trailed a player down by mistake, that he'd be instantly red carded. The refs in this league have no f*cking balls, and never have.

We seemed to give up as soon as Torres went off (injury or rafa? ) who knows why !

True. I noticed. That's the million dollar question. There are sometimes you can see why and it's obvious, but that has me baffled. The silly b@stard should know better, because as soon as he makes a decision like this, it's going to be blown into catastropic proportions if it goes t*ts up, which it did.

To be fair (and I am no Rafa lover) Torres wasn't having a good game apart from his goal, and was taking a lot of heavy punishment. I don't think the team should have buckled like they did.

Yeh, but taking him off Saint completely destroyed the team and taking off the others couldn't have done anything for the team either.

If I was on the pitch and saw the manager making those decisions I would have given up too.

If the gaffer doesn't give a fuck about making a go for the Premiership, why should I?

One could argue that Dirk Kuyt's moment of stupidy lead to the complete capitulation of the side. From that moment on, everything went horrifically wrong.

Perhaps, but the oportunity for at least a draw (which we'd all take now) was still there.

Torres showed in the first half that he can make something out of nothing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Benitez is losing the dressing room. The lads shaking their heads today at being brought off speaks volumes.

He's not losing the dressing room. That's just the kind of sensationalist bollox papers like The S*n would write up. Yossi probably felt that he was playing well and wanted to stay on. It's normal for a player to disagree with being taken off at times.

I think most of the team question him more now tho and any of that is a slow and steady downhill ride for any manager.

Also i wouldn't know what the sun writes haven't read the paper in 16 years.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:40 pm

Dazzer wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
puroresu wrote:The team today and the bench says it all. We have far too many poor to average players at the club.

That team put out was well capable, so don't be under any illusions that it wasn't. The first half proved that. For some inexplicable reason, they lost their balls in the second half. Just a series of individual errors that let them back into the match and some of these lot just didn't know how to deal with it. F*ckin gobshytes. The ref went a bit mental with those red cards. You always knew that after the United game that if Carra even made the same kind of error, or even slipped and trailed a player down by mistake, that he'd be instantly red carded. The refs in this league have no f*cking balls, and never have.

We seemed to give up as soon as Torres went off (injury or rafa? ) who knows why !

True. I noticed. That's the million dollar question. There are sometimes you can see why and it's obvious, but that has me baffled. The silly b@stard should know better, because as soon as he makes a decision like this, it's going to be blown into catastropic proportions if it goes t*ts up, which it did.

To be fair (and I am no Rafa lover) Torres wasn't having a good game apart from his goal, and was taking a lot of heavy punishment. I don't think the team should have buckled like they did.

Was thinking the exact same thing, S@int, but I just couldn't be bolloxed writing that for fear of the wrath of the plebians. Torres was having a bit of a stinker, but it seems that unless your Alex Ferguson, you can't sub the best striker in the world for being sh*t on the day, otherwise you'll get murdered for it.

Edit - however, in saying that, even if Fernando was playing sh*t, he can still grab a goal out of nowhere, which he did.

I won't give you any stick for supporting him mate thats your right as a fan.

I just don't like being attacked by some members like I am cos I have had enough of Rafa we all have right to voice what we think with out getting attacked for it.

Doesn't really annoy me to be honest. What does, however, is lack of foresight from certain individuals, and a failure to grasp the situation which the club is in at the moment. There are no viable solutions to our current form at the minute, and berating the manager with abuse and calls for his head certainly is no way to go about it. They say a plumber is only as good as the tools he's been given to work with. I think today that metaphore can be an apt description of what Rafa had to put up with. It's through no fault of his that injuries and illness have wrecked the squad. Maybe if the Yanks had coughed up some more dough in the summer, we'd have a few better options other than Degen and Voronin. But let's not go into that debate.

They also say a good work man never blames his tools ? End of day Rafa has alot of time and money to build a team that don't fall apart with 5-6 injurys ? and he hasn't the buck stops with him that is a FACT as he likes to put it.

Yeah, well today the workman can blame his tools, because that's what they were - tools. Degen was a tool for not tracking back and getting sent off, and Kuyt was one for not just conceiding a throw in. Insua was a tool for ball watching for the first goal, and Voronin...well. I'm not normally one to get the boot into players, but today they made some shocking decisions that led to complete bedlam on the pitch.

Anyway, it's more like 10 injuries if you include a virus. As soon as we aquire a player back, they get struck down with a bug. If Chelsea or Arsenal or United got hit with the kind of injuries to key players, do you think they'd be firing on all cylinders? Would they f*ck.

by **Bammo** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:40 pm

Our formation today, particularly in the 2nd half (with 11 players!) seemed to be:

Reina
Carra Greek Insua
Masch
Degen Kuyt Lucas Voronin Benny

Torres/Babel

I know consistency is key but we need to use systems that suit the players we have. If Lucas and Masch are in the middle then the rest of the midfield needs to push up much further.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:42 pm

Bammo wrote:Our formation today, particularly in the 2nd half (with 11 players!) seemed to be:

Reina
Carra Greek Insua
Masch
Degen Kuyt Lucas Voronin Benny

Torres/Babel

I know consistency is key but we need to use systems that suit the players we have. If Lucas and Masch are in the middle then the rest of the midfield needs to push up much further.

all them players been defensive and we still let 3 in -

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:43 pm

Lee J wrote:
Bammo wrote:Our formation today, particularly in the 2nd half (with 11 players!) seemed to be:

Reina
Carra Greek Insua
Masch
Degen Kuyt Lucas Voronin Benny

Torres/Babel

I know consistency is key but we need to use systems that suit the players we have. If Lucas and Masch are in the middle then the rest of the midfield needs to push up much further.

all them players been defensive and we still let 3 in -

Well, yeah, considering we were 9 men, that's understandable.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:43 pm

He's not losing the dressing room. That's just the kind of sensationalist bollox papers like The S*n would write up. Yossi probably felt that he was playing well and wanted to stay on. It's normal for a player to disagree with being taken off at times.

I think most of the team question him more now tho and any of that is a slow and steady downhill ride for any manager.[/quote]
Where's the proof of this?

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:44 pm

One question, were Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio and Ngog all crocked? It's all well and good saying we had key injuries--we did--but any of those lads would have been handy to have on the pitch or at least on the bench today. I just can't shake the sense that Rafa's pulled another Reading special and that it's blown up in our faces again...

We were a shambles today. Save for an opportunistic strike from the best striker in the world and an unlucky blast off the bar from Yossi we were poor going forward. The recipe for disaster was at the back, though. Thankfully, Fulham were so content to park the bus that they barely came out of their own half for most of the first half. When they started running at us in the second half, though, we looked an absolute mess. Very worrying times.

by **bunglemark2** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:44 pm

Anybody know what our illustrious leader had to say about it all ?

by **Dazzer** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:45 pm

Where's the proof of this?

Fact we lost 6/7 ? and shacking heads comming off.What proof have you got he hasn't ? I think the evidence is more stacked in favour of my arguement. :nod

Also 2 players sent of means lack of discipline means lack of focus and lack of care which to me shows a lack of care for manager.

by **Bammo** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:45 pm

Cause and effect mate. The fact we were so defensive and deep meant it went from being a footy match to attack vs defence. Last year we looked impressive when we went at teams. Now we're too scared to do that we end up letting them play.

I'd love Rafa to just say "fu.ck it, let's tear teams apart and screw caution".

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:48 pm

Bad Bob wrote:One question, were Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio and Ngog all crocked? It's all well and good saying we had key injuries--we did--but any of those lads would have been handy to have on the pitch or at least on the bench today. I just can't shake the sense that Rafa's pulled another Reading special and that it's blown up in our faces again...

We were a shambles today. Save for an opportunistic strike from the best striker in the world and an unlucky blast off the bar from Yossi we were poor going forward. The recipe for disaster was at the back, though. Thankfully, Fulham were so content to park the bus that they barely came out of their own half for most of the first half. When they started running at us in the second half, though, we looked an absolute mess. Very worrying times.

Begs the question would they have played if we didn't have a vital game against LYON coming up?

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:48 pm

I'll break up the pyramid of quotes there by saying that it still doesn't prove that he's losing the dressing room.

by **tonyeh** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:49 pm

He's not losing the dressing room. That's just the kind of sensationalist bollox papers like The S*n would write up. Yossi probably felt that he was playing well and wanted to stay on. It's normal for a player to disagree with being taken off at times.

I don't think it's as simple as that Red, I really don't.

by **tonyeh** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:50 pm

They also say a good work man never blames his tools ? End of day Rafa has alot of time and money to build a team that don't fall apart with 5-6 injurys ? and he hasn't the buck stops with him that is a FACT as he likes to put it.

Yeah, well today the workman can blame his tools...[/quote]
It was the workman who bought the tools.

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