Liverpool FC Forum

[Emerald Red]

passing the ball along the half way line and creating no clear cut chances isnt controlling the game Leon is called lacking a creative edge and we've been guilty of it alot, as for a lack of brains we'll Im no Peewee, i dont have 27 houses and a room full of Thai Brides but Im not a slack jawwed Irish Yokal just yet, and certainly dont suffer from tunnel vision like some members of this forum

We had several chances; some of which have been mysteriously omitted from the analysis of the game from the commentators (which I noted during the game on this thread) and from pundits on this forum alike. Gerrard had a good chance to put us one up in the first half, which he shoved straight down the keeper's throat from 9 yards out. Mascherano had a great chance but couldn't keep his balance and hit a weak shot after some brilliant football from us, which I seen in intermittent spells throughout the game. There was some football played you'd normally associate with the likes of Arsenal. Torres, apart from his goal, and had he been a little more selfish, had a few chances and could have scored at least another. Gerrard had a chance which again he hit straight at the keeper from a direct free kick. The keeper fumbled. No one was there to pick up the pieces. Chance gone. Rafa went ballistic. Lest we forget his horrible clearance that cost us three points, but anyway.

Let's be honest here, if it were a boxing match, the referee (had he not been a c*nt) would have called it a night long ago. We made them look petty all over the pitch, with the one obvious exception of Chris Kirkland - who was fantastic and kept them in it. But of course, I've yet to read a single post from anyone stating anything about their keeper.

Simple fact is, we bossed the game and didn't take our chances. I think it's now just a case that little teams with some inside knowledge (probably that red nosed c*nt Fergie passing chinese whispers on to his old pal broken nose Brucie) know how to play against us now. It's simple - they park the f*cking bus and build a wall around the goal. United have been doing it now for years against Rafa, and it's worked for them. The old smash and grab technique. If anything, we should have just let them come at us then hit them on the break with pace if they wanted to play that  f*cking shyte.

We're two big match winning players short of landing the Premiership. Nothing more. This is no crisis. The world hasn't ended. And WE DIDN'T F*CKING LOSE the game. We're out of the league, aye, but let's be honest here: we were never going to win it this season. Ever. Anyone who thought we were, were only kidding themselves and setting themselves up for the fall. It certainly wasn't our manager, so lay off the sh*t talk. No, in fact, let's sack him. Let's let the Yanks bring in that diving b@stard Klinsmann, the so called world beater and master of even Rafa himself. Let's do it. Sound's nuts, right? Well, yeah, this is the complete bollox I've been reading on this forum lately. madness. You've all gone f*cking nuts!

[Leonmc0708]

passing the ball along the half way line and creating no clear cut chances isnt controlling the game Leon is called lacking a creative edge and we've been guilty of it alot, as for a lack of brains we'll Im no Peewee, i dont have 27 houses and a room full of Thai Brides but Im not a slack jawwed Irish Yokal just yet, and certainly dont suffer from tunnel vision like some members of this forum

Gerrard (after one two with Torres), Mascherano, Gerrard (free kick) and Gerrard (late on after equaliser) should have scored as well as otehr chances off target.

[Emerald Red]

Oh yeah, if I triple posted there, it's because this thread has gone a bit mad...






















along with some newbie posters.

[Lando_Griffin]

F*ck me, did we lose?

No? Didn't think so...

Theres a broader picture here Lando.

Yes - that everything is still to play for.

[Lando_Griffin]

F*ck me, did we lose?

No? Didn't think so...

Reminds me of the fella who caught his wife giving the neighbor a blow job .

his reaction

"Well she wasn't sh'agging him"



Did we win ?

No , I don't think so .

But in fairness to you Lando maybe some of us are forgetting that we were playing the Mighty Wigan at home.

4 points out of six against them this season, though.

And just because they're Wigan, it doesn't mean we've a right to win.

[Toffeehater]

F*ck me, did we lose?

No? Didn't think so...

Reminds me of the fella who caught his wife giving the neighbor a blow job .

his reaction

"Well she wasn't sh'agging him"



Did we win ?

No , I don't think so .

But in fairness to you Lando maybe some of us are forgetting that we were playing the Mighty Wigan at home.

4 points out of six against them this season, though.

And just because they're Wigan, it doesn't mean we've a right to win.

yes we do lando , thats what champions do , and if we are to challenge for it then we ought to start acting like we really want it .

[Jacko]

This is from Football 365 and I have to agree...

Long before he decided on the inspirational idea of playing one up front against Wigan at home, Rafa had made a series of baffling decisions in seven other games. It's just so frustrating...



Portsmouth 0 Liverpool 0 (September 15)
Having hit Derby for six in their last match - with Fernando Torres scoring twice - Rafa thought it was perfectly sensible to partner Peter Crouch (in his first start of the season) and Andriy Voronin at Portsmouth and leave Steven Gerrard and Torres on the bench in preparation for their Champions League tie with Porto three days later. Funnily enough, this less-than-dangerous strikeforce failed to trouble Sol Campbell and Sylvain Distin, who really are rather good, and only Jose Reina saved them from defeat.




Liverpool 0 Birmingham 0 (September 22)
Not deterred by the failure of a Torres-less Liverpool to break down Portsmouth, Rafa left him on the bench again and paired perennial trier Dirk Kuyt and Voronin in attack. A ten-man Birmingham defence snuffed out the Reds' attack and Benitez once again failed to get the better of master tactician Steve Bruce. That Torres then played in the Carling Cup - and destroyed - Reading a few days later, only made it hurt more.




Liverpool 1 Arsenal 1 (October 28)
After buying Yossi Benayoun and Ryan Babel in the summer to add some much-needed width, Rafa did not have the balls to actually play them in big games. Instead, he opted for a Chelsea-like formation with Stevie G, Javier Mascherano and Xabi Alonso in a midfield three in an attempt to snuff out Cesc Fabregas. This left Kuyt and Voronin on the flanks - offering a great deal of effort but very little guile. They scored first and tried to hang on. But failed.




Blackburn 0 Liverpool 0 (November 3)
Without the injured Torres, but instead of partnering Kuyt with Crouch (which had proved an effective pairing last season), Rafa pushed Gerrard up alongside Kuyt - leaving a less-than-creative central midfield partnership of Mascherano and Momo Sissoko - and the result was a ridiculous lack of danger to the Rovers defence until Crouch was finally sent on from the bench with 18 minutes left on the clock. They proceeded to create more chances in 18 minutes than they had in 72 minutes, but the change had come too late.




Reading 3 Liverpool 1 (December 8)
Having spanked Bolton 4-0 the week before using the width of Benayoun, Harry Kewell and Babel, Benitez changed back to the 4-3-3 formation of the Arsenal game and once again it backfired. This time it was a combination of Voronin, Torres and Crouch who lined up as Kuyt was rested ahead of the must-win game against Marseille. Also rested was Sami Hyypia (to be replaced by rookie Jack Hobbs) as Rafa made it clear where the club's priorities lay.




Liverpool 0 Manchester United 1 (December 16)
Manchester United did a classic job on Liverpool as they were happy to give the home side the ball in the knowledge that they had little idea of how to break down the best defence in the Premier League. For some reason, Rafa persisted with Harry Kewell ahead of the impressive Babel and for all of Liverpool's huffing and puffing (including some impressive yapping from the Dutch golden retriever) they could not react to Carlos Tevez's goal. Once again they only really started to crank up the pace at the 73rd-minute stage when Crouch came belatedly from the bench.




Man City 0 Liverpool 0 (December 30)
Yes, City payed in a 4-6-0 formation, but they were helped by Liverpool's refusal to show any real ambition until the final ten minutes. Once again, Kewell played ahead of Babel, and it was only when the Dutchman came off the bench that the Reds began to show any urgency. Once again, just waiting for Stevie G to hit a screamer proved to be a less-than-inspired tactic.




Liverpool 1 Wigan 1 (January 2)
It's a game that Rafa admits that Liverpool 'must win'. So what does he do? Play Torres as a lone striker of course and rely on Gerrard to join him from a three-man midfield that also includes stopper Mascherano, of course. At home to Wigan. Torres does his bit with a goal, Liverpool completely fail to turn the screw and Titus Bramble (of all people) scores an equaliser. Rafa waits until six minutes before the end to throw on Crouch, the freshest member of the Liverpool squad after a three-match ban. We don't even have to tell you that Kewell played.



Sarah Winterburn

[Toffeehater]

Answer to Liverpool's problems might already be at Anfield
Posted by Brant Parsons on Jan 3, 2008 4:19:45 AM




Like most of you, I suffered through Liverpool's 1-1 draw against Wigan. I watched countless effort come up short because Liverpool just couldn't get those final touches to score.

In the end it bit them in the backside, as Wigan got a goal and Liverpool likely lost the title - and I'm wondering if it could have been prevented.

Lots has been made about Rafa and what money he may or may not have to spend this month on the transfer market.

I think Rafa can start to improve things already by making a simple move - put Ryan Babel back into his natural position.

Please, hear me out on this.

Fernando Torres is the striker of the future at Anfield - and oh what a talent he is. He's a joy to watch and he keeps getting better and better as he adapts to the English game. Only, he has nobody to help him.

Today, Rafa seemed to almost completely give up on trying to use one of his strikers on board, instead putting Steven Gerrard behind a one-striker Torres.

Why did he do this?

Because he doesn't feel any other striker can help out and he's frustrated.

For whatever reason, and we don't need to get into it here, Rafa has lost faith in Peter Crouch. He is not going to use him in league matches and I will be less and less surprised if the lanky one is dancing the robot elsewhere come February (and yes, I'm aware he retired the robot dance).

Dirk Kuyt has been spectacularly unspectacular this season. Some could call it bad luck, not enough touches, whatever the reason is, he hasn't looked as potent as it was once imagined he would be. He can still be a vital player - but you can't count him as the second forward right now.

Andriy Voronin looked like a steal back in August. So much so that I even had him on my fantasy league team at one point (need to make sure he's off now..). But he's fallen on hard times and is starting to look to be worth every bit of that free transfer that he was.

So what does that leave you with?

Correct, it leaves you starting Torres alone up front.

So why not give Babel a try up there. I know he's being groomed on the wing - and has looked both brilliant and lost at times this season - but he was a forward when they bought him so there is very little learning of the position for him to undertake.

So come on Rafa - put Babel up front with Torres and see what happens - it can't be much worse than what has been happening.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_....er.html

I have to say i totally agree with this article and it hought some others should be allowed to air their views too

[Toffeehater]

The problem with Liverpool is Steven Gerrard
http://www.sportingo.com/footbal....01,6384


Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal have all solved the issue of too much reliance on one man – Rafa Benitez must now do the same.

“What wrong with Liverpool?” lamented a Liverpool fan after his club drew with Wigan, making four points dropped in the last two games. “What’s wrong with Steven Gerrard?”

“That,” I told him, “was exactly the problem.”

Liverpool are too reliant on one man – Gerrard. They need him to provide the leadership as well as the impetus to their entire endeavour. To be fair to Stevie G, in the big games he has never failed them, and his most glorious statement to that effect was in Istanbul when he single-handedly hauled Liverpool by their bootstraps from the brink of defeat to be European Champions. If ever a football achievement deserved the award of the Victoria Cross, that was it.

Gerrard is to Liverpool what the Katana Sword is to a Japanese Samurai. Without him, Liverpool have no soul. But such reliance has also at times proved Liverpool’s undoing over a season-long campaign. Gerrard is fantastic when it comes to the crunch, but can look ordinary during routine games. His influence is so great that Liverpool tend to falter when he has an off-game.

Without him on the field, the current expensively assembled Liverpool squad lack a leader. Who else is there? Jamie Carragher? No. Sami Hyypia? No. Xabi Alonso? No. Fernando Torres? No. They are all are good players in their own right, but not one of them is capable of leading and inspiring great performances from those around them.

In the past, I have suggested Gerrard be relieved of his captain’s armband and been met with a barrage of criticism. The fact is I am not condemning Anfield's very own Superman. Rather, I see a need to make others in the Liverpool ranks step up. An over-reliance on one man is just not good for the team. Arsene Wenger found that out. Sir Alex Ferguson found that out. And even Jose Mourinho found that out last season. All did something about it, making others around their captain more accountable.

Not Rafa Benitez. What’s worse, Benitez has done nothing to identify and cultivate the next generation of leaders at Liverpool. Whereas other managers – Wenger for one – have passed the captain’s armband around to great success, Benitez seems reluctant to disturb the hierarchy at his club, which would be fine except instead of treating Gerrard with reverence, the manager treats him like a water-boy. He continually plays him in awkward positions, like midfield-anchor, wide-right, in the hole etc. so he can accommodate other – perhaps lesser – players. To my mind, that’s just so disrespectful of his prized asset.

I still hold the view that in order to progress, Liverpool need to take away the captain’s armband from Gerrard. Give it Jose Reina. Force the goalkeeper to take responsibility for his team and maybe that will stop him making the occasional rash and silly judgments. Allow Gerrard freedom from responsibility to express himself in midfield in the way Wenger has allowed Aleksandr Hleb to flourish.

Maybe then we’ll see a better Liverpool who are not constantly looking to Gerrard for redemption, and where the likes of Torres can step up. In fairness, the Spaniard is already proving his mettle, but Liverpool cannot progress from a one-man team to a two-man team. That’s a miniscule step for a club with Liverpool’s pride and tradition. They need to be an 11-man team and, in this respect, Rafa needs this transfer window period to re-evaluate his players. John Arne Riise, Harry Kewell, Jermaine Pennant, Dirk Kuyt, Peter Crouch, Momo Sissoko, Daniel Agger and Andriy Voronin haven't added value to the team and all need to go.

The next generation of the Rafa-lution needs to be brought in. Among them, someone who can challenge Stevie G for the captain’s armband and for the soul of the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Harsh but parts of it are true , we depend on him too much , and  No i don't agree that we should sell agger , pennant , riise and maybe either kuyt or crouch , unless we can get some1 better

[NANNY RED]

passing the ball along the half way line and creating no clear cut chances isnt controlling the game Leon is called lacking a creative edge and we've been guilty of it alot, as for a lack of brains we'll Im no Peewee, i dont have 27 houses and a room full of Thai Brides but Im not a slack jawwed Irish Yokal just yet, and certainly dont suffer from tunnel vision like some members of this forum

Clear cut chances, Gerrard and Mascherano should have scored from 8 yards out, with only the keeper to beat. Last night we were let down by the players.

Coulndnt agree more lad said the same thing meself about 10 pages ago. Makes me sick when we you see players not playin for the shirt . Mind you i think them days are long gone with the exeption of Carra.

All the posters on here callin for Rafas head the team has let him and us down a few times this season and as i said before yer might as well say sack the lot of them then.

Totaly agree on the Pennant comment you mentioned in an earlier post sometimes he is a lasy especialy in trackin back. But as you said you dont get to see the full picture on tv you dont get to see the movement of the players of the ball and last night some of the players were static

[Reg]

So was Tevez, Mascher and Fat Frank. Marvellous the talent the Hammers have lost isnt it?

Don't forget Defoe , carrick , and Rio ferdinand

and joe cole

Best side that never was.

[dawson99]

but if the players arent playing, why? is it because of the manager/ seems not. then why? coaching? training? team bondin? something needs sorting.

[LFC2007]

FFS!

I can't even begin to express my disappointment with that result, it tears me in two.

I thought we looked lacklustre, okay we dominated proceedings and should have closed the game out with the chances we had, but I didn't see the urgency required to defend our lead. When you go 1-0 up at home to Wigan you expect to win, but you sure as feck don't rest on your laurels, because regardless of what people say or intimate - this is top flight football, and the opposition are fighting for their own careers and the future of their club.

Their goal was a once in a lifetime crime from Titus Bramble, but where was the urgency from us when Wigan were attacking? Where was the desire to make absolutely 100% certain that their crosses weren't going to enter our box, or anywhere near our box? What the feck was Gerrard doing with that clearance? Last night was as much about attitude as anything else.


There were also again signs of a lack of creativity and inventiveness.

I thought in the short-term we might have been able to mount a title challenge with our existing squad, if all players were fit, and firing on all cylinders I thought it might have been possible. Now, it looks very unlikely unfortunately.

Looking at the situation bluntly, we probably just aren't quite good enough.

The reasons for our failure to maintain a realistic challenge up until this point are numerous, but the reality is we don't have a squad 'man for man as good as any other in the division'.

Game-to-game player rotation has very little to do with our inconsistencies IMO, we've shown on a fair few occasions now, with Gerrard and Torres, and other key players consistently in the side that we can put in performances as dull and lacklustre as those without them in the side.

A combination of being not quite good enough, in tandom with some of Rafa's tinkering (note - tinkering does not necessarily = rotation) in terms of our formation, and the balance of the side are key reasons for our downfall this season. Keeping a balanced side will invariably mean a decrease in game-to-game rotation, but not by much. It's absolutely possible to rotate on a scale similar to that which Rafa practises, whilst maintaining a more conventional balance to the side. If only some of the so called 'anti-R's' would acknowledge this distinction. It's a much more important point than a number on a sheet of paper that denotes numbers of players 'rotated'.


Anyhow, we must move on, and fire a rocket up our arses sharpish.

We have 54 points to play for, giving us a margin for error of about 7 points. In order to win the league, that means we need to win 15 of our remaining games. Arsenal and the manc's would have to drop to below 2pts/game or so for the remainder of the season, which looks unlikely, and we'd have to elevate ourselves to 2.5pt/game (currently being on 1.9/game) - which would be a staggering elevation.

[roberto green]

I have always said Benitez has had my backing when people have slagged him off but for the first time i am starting to seriously question his judgement,he is clearly a very good manager but there is seriously something missing and i am now stating to believe he will never win the league due to his rotation.

We need a creative player so much somene special who has that touch like a Litmanen or Mcallister type player who is cool and has a brain...

I'd still love Robbie Keane he would be perfect for us.

[puroresu]

It seems the number of people wanting rid of Rafa is growing all the time, it's no fun when most people disagree with you is it Emerald. I should know as most people have been disagreeing with me on this forum but I've been asking for Rafa to leave for ages now.

Can you please explain to me what exactly is so great about Rafa because I don't see it. I see a very average manager who seems to have lost the respect of the players, they certainly don't play with any great degree of passion. I don't understand how Rafa is a tactical genius when he fecks around with the formations and plays people out of position, maybe you have a different point of view and can enlighten me. I don't understand how someone who realistically thinks he will sign a player against against Red noses wishes can have a firm grasp on reality let alone the workings of the premership!!

It is time for rafa to leave, he's had his chance and enough moeny and has not proven himself.

I think Rafa is a very good manager who has an impressive CV.  However the guy has faults and people must accept that.  I am not a fan of the football his sides produce.  Valencia were boring to watch and so are we.  If u want to play negative football where the onus is on defending and winning the ball back u better be winning games to justify that football.  We are not winning games and lie 5th in the league in January.  After 4 seasons we our still no closer to winning the league and the ultimate responsibility lies with the Manager. 

Lack of funds to buy £20 mil players is not the reason for such failure.  There has been enough funds to find quality yet Rafa has spent money on players not good enough for this club.  How many of our players would get in the top 3 sides?

I aint jumping on no bandwagon.  I dont think Rafa can deliver us the title.  His done decent job but the league is the crown and he wont get us that crown.