Liverpool FC Forum

[ruskiy playmaker]

I don't know...I sometimes think Rafa is a kind cowardly manager in some ways and I'm getting truly fed up with his insistance with playing 1 striker in games where he should start with two.

We win 2-0 at Bolton and this is what Rafa gets.  unbelievable!  

[Owzat]

Yeah I agree,but what totally drives me insane is that people need to see goals before they value his worth!
The fella has been a total breath of fresh air for this team,his energy and commitment are fantastic.people moan,yeah he gives the ball away and all that,so do Gerrard..Alonso and Masch at times.
Dirk Kuyt does more than enough to warrant a place in LFC and has done for a lot longer than before he started banging in goals.

What makes me sick is people were saying we will NEVER be great or win anything with Kuyt in our team..well I reckon we'd be a lot worse off without him.Not just this season,the lad was fantastic in the second half of last and the bunch of crying feckers on here nailed him to the wall..just because he did'nt score so many goals!


Now even Heimdall is saying he likes Kuyt..FICKLE I detest the word but it is apt for a lot of...I'll leave it there!
Dirk Kuyt is a good old fashioned footballer and an asset to this team..swap him for the likes of that waster Pennant??NOT A Fu*king CHANCE!!!

I'd be the first to criticise him for missing chances, and he does. But he's no worse than others, pops up with vital goals and works his socks off. So he gives the ball away from time to time, so do the rest of the team. And that includes the darling of a few on here - Alonso. Kuyt knows his limits, knows he won't beat too many for pace so he uses his brain. Gerrard goes on gung ho charges with the ball and is often dispossessed because his control isn't nearly as close as he'd like to think it is. I'd like to see the game by game tracking wotsit from s*y because I reckon you'd be hard pressed to distinguish which are the areas Kuyt covers and which is the grass! ie he covers virtually every blade.

I don't know about the Keane love-in that is going on with tonyeh and ace, but I reckon we'd be no worse off with none up front than with Keane up front. Wouldn't be surprised if he's benched for the next league game, assuming Torres isn't injured playing for Spain - AGAIN! Maybe a spell on the bench wouldn't be the worst thing, he started Liverpool's first six games of the season and didn't score. He was then sub and started alternately for the next four games before scoring in the next game.

So mixing starting and not starting appears to work better for Keane, when he was starting every game he couldn't score. Now he's less frequently starting he's hitting a bit of form, although it appears he still needs a bit of practice with a banjo around the rear end of a cow..................................

[Scottbot]

Good win, but the amount of clear chances that Liverpool missed today is a worry. Against a better side that may have more serious.

Between both teams there must have been about 8 clear chances missed in that game.

I'm still furious that Rafa AGAIN took off Keane and refused to play a 4-4-2 with him and Torres. I'd have taken off Mascherano.

Were you actually watching the game at the time of the substitution?

Doesn't the end justify the means?

And I direct that question to any poster who is has been negative or critical (you know who you are) in this thread.

[Number 9]

Keane was bought to play off Nando a bit I reckon!
Asking Keane to play upfront alone is like Peppered sauce and red wine with no steak!

[LFC2007]

As for taking Keane off, he looked angry but, fook him--had he scored his sitter we would have been firmly in command and in a position to change the formation in order to get Torres some minutes while keeping him on the pitch.  As it was, his miss meant we had to defend a slim lead against a spirited team that was making life hard for our midfield. Never in a million years was that the time to revert to 4-4-2, given how shakey we looked in possession.

eerga I.

At that stage of the match, we needed Masch and Alonso challenging for second balls and to help us retain possession. Torres is much better at holding the ball up than Keane anyway, and presents a much greater threat running in behind. Keane wasn't very good at it and at that point in the match, Mascherano's tactical value to the team was much greater than Keane's.

If we had been keeping possession and looked in a reasonably comfortable position, then maybe we could've taken Masch off for Torres and left Keane on. As it was, it proved a sensible move as it was Torres' excellent hold up play and skill that led to the second which effectively killed the game off. Rafa got the balance just about spot on, IMO.

[NANNY RED]

Made up with us, Made up once again with Dirk, Made up that Xabi has kept up the level of play that we all knew he was capable of. Made how Masherano played. Made up with Rafa tactics spot on . Made upwith some of our play to day it was brilliant . Made up that were still joint top. Im just made up tonight. All in all im a very happy nan.

IM MADE UP FOR US An anyone who is not made up should goan get there head down

[aCe']

Its absolutely ridiculous suggesting that Keane had to be taken off because he missed a sitter imo..
He didnt have the best of games but to come off after less than 60 mins yet again is way too harsh by Rafa ...
Im not saying he got it tactically wrong or anything.. im just saying judging by his expressions after being taken off he seems rather disenchanted..id understand why he'd feel unappreciated its becoming rather sad seeing him taken off every game regardless of how he performs...

4-4-2 is not an attacking formation... neither is 4-5-1... all depends on how players position themselves on the pitch... We'v seen Gerrard play behind Keane/Torres today and he did little tracking back and was usually around the halfway line looking for the fast break... Riera and Kuyt defended alot before coming off and we basically played a 4-4-1-1 with Gerrard and Torres upfront.. surely having Gerrard as one of the midfield 4 and Keane and Torres upfront wouldnt have been that different... Riera did nothing in the second half... same with Kuyt...
Think if we had taken Riera or Kuyt off to bring on Torres it wouldnt have been that different really... if anything we would have probably looked better on possesion higher up the pitch and given the Keane-Torres partnership a little more playing time...

[tonyeh]

Good win, but the amount of clear chances that Liverpool missed today is a worry. Against a better side that may have more serious.

Between both teams there must have been about 8 clear chances missed in that game.

I'm still furious that Rafa AGAIN took off Keane and refused to play a 4-4-2 with him and Torres. I'd have taken off Mascherano.

Agree we should have gone for 2 upfront at 1-0 up when Keane was taken off early in the 2nd half... would have taken Riera off and shifted player around a bit... Gerrard cutting from the left and Keane coming deeper to control the ball better upfront...
Shocking miss from Torres was the easiest chance of them all imo... great pass and looked pretty interested unlike the cup game...

Again Rafa not doin Keane any favors by taking him off after less than an hour... gotta be frustrating cause it doesnt matter if hes scoring, in form or not, whatever it is he has to come off... his confidence must be at a super low especially after that miss and then being taken off...

  No no no  are you seriously suggesting that rafa got his tactics wrong today ? That question is aimed at the pair of you lovebirds .

Well, I'm suggesting that Rafa needs to stop fücking around with Robbie Keane. This business of taking him off on the hour every game cannot be doing him any good at all. It's getting to the point where Keane knows that when the hour's up, he's off. Even when a hat-trick is on the cards like last week.

In addition, Liverpool need to start concentrating on playing with two strikers, after all that is what Rafa paid 20 mil for.

Robbie can't play up on his own, neither can any of the other options bar Torres (and even that's debatable this year). It's that simple, he needs another striker to play with. It's beneficial to Liverpool too as it creates more options in attack, which Liverpool can be sorely lacking in at times.

Before the Torres injury, himself and Keane were looking quite good and they were beginning to gel somewhat and I think it's time to re-engineer that again.

Keane's movement was good today and bar the admitedly awful miss (and he wasn't alone in that today), he was doing well. But it doesn't seem how bad or well he does, he gets subbed!

[aCe']

Good win, but the amount of clear chances that Liverpool missed today is a worry. Against a better side that may have more serious.

Between both teams there must have been about 8 clear chances missed in that game.

I'm still furious that Rafa AGAIN took off Keane and refused to play a 4-4-2 with him and Torres. I'd have taken off Mascherano.

Agree we should have gone for 2 upfront at 1-0 up when Keane was taken off early in the 2nd half... would have taken Riera off and shifted player around a bit... Gerrard cutting from the left and Keane coming deeper to control the ball better upfront...
Shocking miss from Torres was the easiest chance of them all imo... great pass and looked pretty interested unlike the cup game...

Again Rafa not doin Keane any favors by taking him off after less than an hour... gotta be frustrating cause it doesnt matter if hes scoring, in form or not, whatever it is he has to come off... his confidence must be at a super low especially after that miss and then being taken off...

  No no no  are you seriously suggesting that rafa got his tactics wrong today ? That question is aimed at the pair of you lovebirds .

just cause we won the game doesnt mean that people cant have an opinion or criticize a decision by the manager does it ?!

he didnt get it wrong but the negative tactics could have cost us ... like they did yet and again last season...

[tonyeh]

I don't know about the Keane love-in that is going on with tonyeh and ace,

No love in, I was the one who called him a "gobsh!te" when he fücked up in the CL remember? That got a few people a bit hot under the collar.

I'd personally rather see another striker in the side and was wary at the start about the signing. That hasn't changed. But my real problem is playing one striker up front...Liverpool are just not strong enough to continue doing that and expect to get away with it.

[aCe']

Good win, but the amount of clear chances that Liverpool missed today is a worry. Against a better side that may have more serious.

Between both teams there must have been about 8 clear chances missed in that game.

I'm still furious that Rafa AGAIN took off Keane and refused to play a 4-4-2 with him and Torres. I'd have taken off Mascherano.

Agree we should have gone for 2 upfront at 1-0 up when Keane was taken off early in the 2nd half... would have taken Riera off and shifted player around a bit... Gerrard cutting from the left and Keane coming deeper to control the ball better upfront...
Shocking miss from Torres was the easiest chance of them all imo... great pass and looked pretty interested unlike the cup game...

Again Rafa not doin Keane any favors by taking him off after less than an hour... gotta be frustrating cause it doesnt matter if hes scoring, in form or not, whatever it is he has to come off... his confidence must be at a super low especially after that miss and then being taken off...

  No no no  are you seriously suggesting that rafa got his tactics wrong today ? That question is aimed at the pair of you lovebirds .

Well, I'm suggesting that Rafa needs to stop fücking around with Robbie Keane. This business of taking him off on the hour every game cannot be doing him any good at all. It's getting to the point where Keane knows that when the hour's up, he's off. Even when a hat-trick is on the cards like last week.

In addition, Liverpool need to start concentrating on playing with two strikers, after all that is what Rafa paid 20 mil for.

Robbie can't play up on his own, neither can any of the other options bar Torres (and even that's debatable this year). It's that simple, he needs another striker to play with. It's beneficial to Liverpool too as it creates more options in attack, which Liverpool can be sorely lacking in at times.

Before the Torres injury, himself and Keane were looking quite good and they were beginning to gel somewhat and I think it's time to re-engineer that again.

Keane's movement was good today and bar the admitedly awful miss (and he wasn't alone in that today), he was doing well. But it doesn't seem how bad or well he does, he gets subbed!

Im pretty sure starting next game we'll see Torres and Keane upfront with Gerrard back in a central role...
Our main problem for the past few years and again this year seems to be that we dont look all that good going forward.. We have some very good players, some exceptional in what they do.. however put together in such a setup they seem to concentrate on defending while looking rather limited oing forward.. We'r too predictable, void of attacking options, and seem rather easy to defend against when we play only 1 upfront...
Torres and Keane upfront if anything gives us more options to pick out when going forward... more time and space for the likes of Gerrard and Alonso to go forward and more targets for the likes of Riera, Arbeloa and Aurelio to pick out from wider positions...

Keane is going to be vital for any hopes of a title challenge this season.. the sooner we get the Keane/Torres pair playing together and scoring the more comfortable it will be for us playing and attacking against the so called smaller clubs in the league imo...

[LFC2007]

Rafa's chosen to phase Torres back into the fold, and I won't criticise him for that because he's in a better position than anyone of us to judge his fitness levels. I don't think any of us want a recurrence of his injury ala Owen, so perhaps it was the most sensible course of action.

Going forward, I'd like to see the partnership given time, particularly in the run of six games we have coming up. Then we have Arsenal, where I'd expect tactical changes.

[tonyeh]

Perhaps, but I'm of the opinion that it would be better to start with Torres and Keane up front, get a lead and then put Torres off "to rest", especially against the "lesser teams".

We have a good opportunity for a run of wins against the next few teams and we better take it, because Chelsea won't lose against their set, that's for sure.

[LFC2007]

If he had started, I imagine he would've been looking at playing 60 minutes and not a half hour, and probably at a higher intensity. Plus, I think Rafa would've been working on something without Torres in the lead up to this game - a time when he may not have been sure how fit Torres would be on the day.

[destro]

Shocking miss from Torres was the easiest chance of them all imo...

So the misses from Gerrard and Keane from 3 yards out were harder to take than the one Torres hit the post with.



Anyway, back to the sensible stuff. I mentioned before the game that IF we took our chances we would have hammered Bolton and so it would have proved, it does worry me slightly that we seem to be wasting a lot of them but on the other hand we have made them count ( all be it with a touch of luck ) against both Chelsea and Man U. I thought the second goal would never come and Bolton seemed to grown in confidence the more chances we missed, then up stepped Torres with a his second great cross of the match and this time Stevie could not miss !

I was also a little concerned with how easy Bolton cancelled out Gerrard by going man to man on him, thankfully the goal changed that and he started to get more involved.

Another tricky game out of the way and all we can do now is keep winning and hope we hit top gear soon, take more of the chances we are creating and try to claw back the goal difference.