Liverpool FC Forum

by **Scottbot** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:54 am

Penguins wrote:That's the main problem. I believe there are other managers with a different philosophy and view on football who could do a better job than Rafa. BUT...

What I mean by better job isn't challenging for the title but putting up a better fight getting 3rd or 4th with maybe 7-8 losses in the season. No manager will be able to come in, and if lucky being allowed to keep what we have but not improve the squad, and all of a sudden make us world beaters.
We will most likely stand still in the player department while Spurs, City, Villa will most likely invest and improve further on their squads.

With the situation we are in now I can see a Hodgson type of manger come in and at best get us 3rd-4th the 1st season. And if nothing changes the following season(s) with no investment we would really drop out of the top 4 indefinitely.
The squad isn't good enough in some departments and we are overly depandant on a few players producing the goods.

It's not like Rafa is some kind of huge boulder stopping us from filling up the trophy cabinet as there will be no more trophies if owners doesn't invest in the team. But there are probably managers who could do better than Rafa right now.
Getting rid of him will not be some kind of miracle cure though where all will be well and we will go a winning spree just cause a new manger comes in with no money to spend, no matter if it is Mourinho or Steve Bruce.

I think most fans in favour of a new manager have accepted that the new man would be working under financial restraints and difficulties, and I don't think everyone is stupid enough top think that a change of manager is suddenly gonna bring number 19 to the club. We need someone to come in and do a better job though. That's my belief.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:06 am

Where as I think Scott some people think by bringing in a maureen he would win us the title pretty quickly and people would expect that just like what happened with Chelsea but our situation is very much different and what happens when he doesn't win the title - people then start demanding another new manager . A new manager is no guarentee o a quick fix or of doing a better job than rafa has over the years

by **loopyliverpool** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:14 am

How about Roy Hogson as a possible Manager. What he is doing at Fulham on limited resources is fantastic. Yeah we could go for a marquee name but in a realistic world I think he may just be the ticket. He's intelligent and knows football inside out both domestically and continentally.

by **Penguins** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:32 pm

Well, it is realistic and I have been saying it for a couple of months. He has been managing Inter and such clubs and in the PL with Fulham and even on the international stage with Finland.

He is not god and would only be a solution for a few years but his job at Fulham has been nothing short of fantastic considering where they were when he took over. From almost certain relegation to quarterfinals in the Europa league in a couple of years is no mean feat.

But he won't bring home no 19, but so will noone else either in our current situation.

by **Penguins** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:34 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Penguins wrote:That's the main problem. I believe there are other managers with a different philosophy and view on football who could do a better job than Rafa. BUT...

What I mean by better job isn't challenging for the title but putting up a better fight getting 3rd or 4th with maybe 7-8 losses in the season. No manager will be able to come in, and if lucky being allowed to keep what we have but not improve the squad, and all of a sudden make us world beaters.
We will most likely stand still in the player department while Spurs, City, Villa will most likely invest and improve further on their squads.

With the situation we are in now I can see a Hodgson type of manger come in and at best get us 3rd-4th the 1st season. And if nothing changes the following season(s) with no investment we would really drop out of the top 4 indefinitely.
The squad isn't good enough in some departments and we are overly depandant on a few players producing the goods.

It's not like Rafa is some kind of huge boulder stopping us from filling up the trophy cabinet as there will be no more trophies if owners doesn't invest in the team. But there are probably managers who could do better than Rafa right now.
Getting rid of him will not be some kind of miracle cure though where all will be well and we will go a winning spree just cause a new manger comes in with no money to spend, no matter if it is Mourinho or Steve Bruce.

I think most fans in favour of a new manager have accepted that the new man would be working under financial restraints and difficulties, and. We need someone to come in and do a better job though. That's my belief.

"I don't think everyone is stupid enough top think that a change of manager is suddenly gonna bring number 19 to the club"

Don't be so sure of that Scott

by **maguskwt** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:07 pm

so what's the use if the new manager couldn't give us No.19 then? the current anti-rafa brigade's gonna turn upon the new manager after 2 seasons and become anti- 'new manager' anyway... and we'll have thise whole episode of calling the new manager things like clown, fat whatever... bringing the club down, killing the club etc etc.... what's new on here...

by **Fauxy** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:09 pm

Roy Hogson is a class manager but i wouldnt bring him in.

My main target would be Frank Rijkaard. To me he seems like the ideal man for the job. He knows how to get teams playing good football, i can only imagine us playing like Barca were when he was in charge. He doesnt have a lot of money at Galatasaray to play around with so coming here really wouldnt be much different. The guy is good in the transfer market too.

Also, if he came along the chances are that he would bring Arda Turan with him!

by **Reg** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:13 pm

Is it not the case that you get what you pay for?

I posted a list of the Top 10 Highest Earners on the 'Football World Wide - General Discussion' forum showing Tevez earning 13.8 million quid thru to Messi at 30 million quid. Maureen earns 8 million and would want 10 to go to RM - surely in light of what the players earn that not unreasonable?

So what do we get for 4 million? Rafa.
And what should we expect of a mediocre manager on a mediocre salary? WAmediocre performance - we struggle for 4th place with some good cup runs.

We can blame Rafa for not winning the league year in year out, or not winning the CL (what a fool as anyone can do that cant they?) but the truth is, we demand both the league and the CL so the only solution is to bring the calibre of manager in who can achieve that - and that will cost us 10 million a year plus a handsome transfer kitty.

When you´re a zillion in debt and have shelved the stadium plans, when you tell the manager he can only spend what he can raise through sales and need an urgent 100 million cash injectionsto keep the money lenders at bay then dont expect the owners to suddenly turn round and either hire the right manager at the going rate nor come up with the money to buy the worldclass players Nan was telling us we were getting!

We have incompetent owners, a 4 million pound manager and a league position that reflects our situation.

Hence Rafa stays.

by **heimdall** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:15 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:nail on the head for me from Saint there.

Thats my main gripe with most fans that are still behind Rafa.
It appears to me that they think we are doing all we can and that whoever was manager this season would have been the same.
To me thats ludicrous, someone else could come in and get more from these players.
Christ sake Rafa won the champions league with houlliers failing team.
Sometimes a change is needed.

Maybe the players have just lost motivation with the way the season has gone as opposed to the man in charge - if they cant give 100% for the club because of the guy in charge then they need to take a big hard look at themsleves and ask if they deserve they massive amount of money given to them

People think bringing someone new in would all of a sudden turn things around and watch us win the league etc ?

What happens when it doesnt next season with a new manager ?

Demand another new one ? then the same with the next season

So has Capello NOT improved England then. He has more or less the same players as McClaren did but from my impartial position I would have to say that England look a far far better team now.

It is ridiculous to suggest a new manager can't change the fortunes of a club, when it has happened time after time after time. Were you saying the same thing before Rafa took over?

by **heimdall** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:17 pm

Reg wrote:Is it not the case that you get what you pay for?

I posted a list of the Top 10 Highest Earners on the 'Football World Wide - General Discussion' forum showing Tevez earning 13.8 million quid thru to Messi at 30 million quid. Maureen earns 8 million and would want 10 to go to RM - surely in light of what the players earn that not unreasonable?

So what do we get for 4 million? Rafa.
And what should we expect of a mediocre manager on a mediocre salary? WAmediocre performance - we struggle for 4th place with some good cup runs.

We can blame Rafa for not winning the league year in year out, or not winning the CL (what a fool as anyone can do that cant they?) but the truth is, we demand both the league and the CL so the only solution is to bring the calibre of manager in who can achieve that - and that will cost us 10 million a year plus a handsome transfer kitty.

When you´re a zillion in debt and have shelved the stadium plans, when you tell the manager he can only spend what he can raise through sales and need an urgent 100 million cash injectionsto keep the money lenders at bay then dont expect the owners to suddenly turn round and either hire the right manager at the going rate nor come up with the money to buy the worldclass players Nan was telling us we were getting!

We have incompetent owners, a 4 million pound manager and a league position that reflects our situation.

Hence Rafa stays.

Wow has it come to the point that £4 million is a mediocre salary these days!!

I agree though that Maureen and Hiddink might be outside of our price bracket but if you want the best then you have to pay for it. Personally I wouldn't blink at paying Maureen £8 million a year to be our manager, I genuinely think he could pull the team together.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:41 pm

We pay Degan £2million a year to sit on a bench, sell him for 3p and put the £2million we save towards the new managers salary if thats whats worrying people.

I just cannot understand how so many people are willing to believe that this is the best we can do. Rafa has been in the job 6 years and says that we need 5 or 6 more players if we are to be competitive....... half a fecking team short after 6 years!

The Rafapologists seem to believe that this season is just a blip and that he will turn it around next year, yet believe it would be impossible for another manager to do the same?

We have a league position that is a disgrace after the money we have spent and the players that we have at the club. I believe a new manager would bring new belief to both the team AND the fans, and would certainly improve on the pathetic season we have had this year. Hence for me Rafa has to go.

by **Reg** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:55 pm

S@int you tell us that in every friggin´ message you post and despite that T&T havent sacked him yet. Maybe you should contact them direct as it appears they dont follow these threads.

Come on mate, give us a break.

by **stmichael** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:57 pm

If that's your opinion Saint that's fair enough.

My view is that when Rafa took on the job, he took it for the long haul and with a clear vision of where the club should be heading in the future; crikey he bought Aquilani for the next five years, not the short term when his injury record has been so poor in the past.

Unfortunately, in the time he has spent with the club I cannot recall one season where there has not been something hanging over his head. I honestly thought this season would finally be the one that had no excuses attached to it, until I saw our net spend for the summer transfer window. When he first started out he was slated in the press for making Europe his number one priority and not giving precedence to the elusive League title. But what they failed to grasp (and a number of fans for that matter) was the perilous financial state the club had been placed in, and the need for financial rewards the Champions League offered the club.

by **Owzat** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:01 pm

s@int wrote:We pay Degan £2million a year to sit on a bench, sell him for 3p and put the £2million we save towards the new managers salary if thats whats worrying people.

I just cannot understand how so many people are willing to believe that this is the best we can do. Rafa has been in the job 6 years and says that we need 5 or 6 more players if we are to be competitive....... half a fecking team short after 6 years!

The Rafapologists seem to believe that this season is just a blip and that he will turn it around next year, yet believe it would be impossible for another manager to do the same?

We have a league position that is a disgrace after the money we have spent and the players that we have at the club. I believe a new manager would bring new belief to both the team AND the fans, and would certainly improve on the pathetic season we have had this year. Hence for me Rafa has to go.

I agree.

What annoys me is we're almost happy with mediocrity, as if any incoming manager couldn't manage what Rafa has on the same budget, same players etc. I may have sarcastically mentioned previously our progress under Rafa as achieving the same as other managers - top 4-5 and the odd cup. As if any incoming manager couldn't get us into the top four and make a fist of 2nd or 3rd minimum, like Rafa has achieved the unachievable. Rafa finished 2nd, so did Houllier. Rafa won a European trophy, so did Houllier. Had the Champions League been as open to non-Champions as it is now, I reckon Evans would be right up there praised for achievements.

by **shawnk** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:15 pm

The number of people that's afraid of changes just scares me.

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