bigmick wrote:RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:but they also understand the importance of realizing the bigger picture and that means not lying the blame for this debacle squarely at the managers feet
Its this train of thought that I have a problem understanding even though you and some fans see it as an end to our problems if we can simply camouflage the financial collapse with success on the field ,
This is the bit that I don't get Red. The assumption that anyone who thinks we need a different manager doesn't see the "bigger picture". I think it's possible to be fully aware of the bigger picture, to want to get rid of the owners at the first possibility, but still think the manager is a busted flush. This "look at the bigger picture" stuff is akin to telling someone who doesn't think Lucas is good enough that he should forget about all that and concentrate on the owners.
It's clear we need new owners, nobody is disputing that. It's equally clear that Lucas isn't good enough. The two facts aren't inter dependent, they just happen to both be true. For me, it's equally clear that we need a new manager. That's not going to change everything, it's not going to "camoflage" our problems off the pitch, not going to disguise our woes, but it is a fact just the same.
My guess is that all this talk about investment will come to nothing and we will still have these two c...s this time next year. Such talk normally surfaces whenever the manager comes under renewed pressure, it usually disipates once we've won a couple of matches. It'll do the same this time too I should think, people will forget about the "nightmare scenario" of owners which are even worse than the ones we've got once we win a game or two. I don't know where the stories come from but they do seem to come up with unerring regularity, along with news that various of the top clubs in Europe are seeking our managers signature.
Like I say we need new owners. We also though need a new manager, of that fact I am absolutely convinced.
See Michael that's what distinguishes public opinion from an individual perception while some develop a preconceived notion that the best way forward is to rid the club of its manager as the best course of action ,I believe that to be a knee jerk reaction and not a solution in the long term ,I can understand fans feeling apprehensive and they genuinely feel that lancing this boil would stop the wound from festering ,(and I apologise for the medical interpretation) but it will not, that much is all too apparent ...
I accept your point of view Mick and I honestly feel you have the best interests of the Club at heart as do we all ,but you are acting through fear mate, fear of failure of us sinking into eventual obscurity,I have stated in a thread I penned just before the season started about I would follow The Reds if they were in the conference league and that how low would Liverpool have to sink before fans and posters considered switching their allegiances ,and believe me fella its coming to that particular crossroad ,but while I do appear to question posters opinions who want Rafa out ,I don't presume that their feelings are not without respect ....
Listen mate I listen to most posters views ,and their are some intelligent and considered evaluations (and then there are some I have on ignore
) needless to say I always take the time to read yours which seems to proffer tangible evidence to back up what you propose ,but that said this relentless vigil in regards to the manager being deposed ,I'm sorry Mick I cant fathom the importance that holds in the overall picture 
or whatever , it has to be the owners . For to long there's been distractions now . No protests at games because it effects the team , Feck the owners it's rafa that has blew the money and failed . 442 is the way to go . They are all none arguements now , they will be resolved in the summer . We need to be united on this one issue and this alone . Nothing else matters at this juncture . That is the point being made .
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