Liverpool FC Forum

[DrPepe]

a bit of generic page-filling but a relatively/surprisingly even analysis from f365.com - esp concerning the "rant"

5 years on :The good and bad of Rafa

THE GOOD

Signing Fernando Torres, Xabi Alonso and Pepe Reina

Quite good players, these three. Would any of them be in the Premier League if it wasn't for Benitez? Real Madrid were Alonso's other main suitor in 2004 (still are), Torres might still be at Atletico had Liverpool not come up with the cash, while Reina would most likely have moved back to Barcelona. In these three - along with Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher - Benitez has created a spine around which Liverpool's success is based, and if he does something daft (like selling Alonso) this summer, their continued title challenge will almost certainly falter.

Keeping - then getting the best from - Steven Gerrard

When Benitez arrived, two of Liverpool's best players were about to jump ship. While Michael Owen left, Gerrard was persuaded to stay (just a couple of weeks after Benitez's appointment too) despite offers of riches and instant success from Chelsea. It happened again the following summer, and while Gerrard claimed it was an emotional decision, Benitez would no doubt have been a major factor.

Keeping him was only a half-success though. After a couple of years shoving him out to the right and occasionally the left of midfield, Benitez realised that his true potential could only be brought out in his current 'free' role. While it might be a stretch to say Benitez alone has converted him from midfielder to support striker, he must be praised for allowing Gerrard to roam free.

Istanbul

The story goes that, as the entire Liverpool side and staff were cavorting around the Ataturk Stadium pitch, Benitez took Jamie Carragher aside and offered some constructive criticism about his positioning during the game.

It's this sort of cold attention to detail that was the centre of Liverpool's comeback. Amid the chaos of half-time, and after setting out a formation that included 12 players, Benitez had the nous and awareness to realise that he had to introduce Dietmar Hamman in order to protect his ravaged defence and midfield. Without this Liverpool probably wouldn't have scored those three goals in six minutes, and certainly wouldn't have prevented Milan from adding more.

Reigniting a rivalry

In this generation of football, there can be few things more flattering than Alex Ferguson recognising you are a threat. The difference between Ferguson's treatment of Benitez and Arsene Wenger at the tail end of last season was telling. While Wenger received the equivalent of a ruffle of the hair and a 'Bless 'em, they play nice football', Benitez was the subject of a cynical and co-ordinated attack from Ferguson and Sam Allardyce, designed to destabilise their season.

Much has been made (on these pages and others) of the 'facts rant', and while it's clear that Ferguson got under Benitez's skin, it's difficult to prove either way that it had a significant impact on Liverpool's season. Sure, they went on a poor run shortly after, but if Benitez had truly been psychologically battered and it had sabotaged Liverpool's season, how do you explain the 4-1 win at Old Trafford?

The improvement in Liverpool's league position since 2004 has been gradual, but last season they were genuine, serious and sustained title contenders for the first time since they last won the thing in 1990. With the right signings, it could be even closer next time.

Surviving the power struggle

18 months ago it looked like Benitez's time at Anfield was done. Disagreements with the American owners and Rick Parry over control (it always is) meant that he was being pushed out, with Tom Hicks and George Gillett even lining up Jurgen Klinsmann to replace him.

How much should be made of the apparent power struggle between Parry and Benitez is unclear, and who actually bought Robbie Keane, but if there really was a row, there's only one winner.

The extent of his victory is perfectly illustrated by the long negotiations over his new contract last season. He rejected every version of the deal that didn't please him, safe in the knowledge that he could ask for a monkey butler and strippers and the club would have to acquiesce, such was and is his power. He now has control over Liverpool's transfer policy, and is shaping the club into his own image.




THE BAD

Blind spots

Strange how some managers have blind spots in certain positions. With Ferguson for a long time it was goalkeepers, for Arsene Wenger centre-backs, but for Benitez it seems to be full-backs. Josemi, Jan Kronkamp, Antonio Barragan, Philip Degen, Andrea Dossena, Alvaro Arbeloa and Fabio Aurelio have been purchased, with arguably only the latter two being successes. And now it looks like he is about to pay a huge fee for the good, but not great, Glen Johnson.

The '7/10' obsession

The fundamental element of Benitez's managerial philosophy is control. He's obsessed with it. One imagines the sort of games that we punters enjoy (the break-neck seven-goalers, the games we remember) are the ones that Benitez hates, because there's no control. They're unpredictable. Anything could happen.

This might explain his early fascination with steady, predictable players that would play quite well and run around a lot every week, but rarely created anything spectacular. It's why he persisted with Dirk Kuyt and eventually found a place for him, as well as Momo Sissoko, Andrei Voronin, Alvaro Arbeloa, Bolo Zenden, Albert Riera, even Craig Bellamy and to an extent Yossi Benayoun.

With the signing of Torres one suspected he finally realised that a mixture of flair and graft is the way to go, which is why their reluctance to chase a player like David Silva is so frustrating.

Rotation

In his early days, you suspected that Benitez made changes to his side almost out of spite, being deliberately obtuse. He famously didn't keep the same side for 99 consecutive games (even that he made no changes for that 100th match suggests stubbornness), and such changes were as much about him not knowing his best side as keeping things fresh. Now, most people could probably name his first-choice eleven, but back then you might as well have picked names from a hat. It's difficult to work out whether the recent success is simply down to keeping a settled side, or the settled side is simply because he has better players now, and can thus more readily trust them.

Questionable transfer record

For every Torres there's a Voronin, for every a Skrtel a Kronkamp, for every Alonso a Nunez. In five years Benitez has signed 45 players, a massive number that smacks of at best trial and error, at worst guessing. Obviously he was unsure in his early days about which players would work in England, but even last summer there were some stinkers.

Philip Degen has yet to make a league appearance (although much of that was down to injury), Andrea Dossena cost £7million, and then there was Robbie Keane. For a manager who is operating on a budget (as he never fails to remind us) much lower than his immediate rivals, he must minimise these sort of judgement errors.

Over-analysis

After Liverpool beat Real Madrid last summer, one of the Spanish papers wrote that you should never play chess with a grandmaster. It's true, and it might be one of the reasons that Liverpool had such a good record in 'big' games last season, while they dropped points against the lesser lights of the Premier League.

Clever thinking and effective tactics are required against Manchester United and Chelsea, but perhaps less so against Stoke and Hull. One suspects against those from the nether regions of the Premier League, Alex Ferguson offers little by way of tactical thinking - he simply says 'You're better than them, go and win it'. Benitez rarely lets his players loose, or goes for all-out attack in the same way that Jose Mourinho used to at Chelsea. If they were losing 1-0 after an hour, Mourinho would chuck on two more strikers and play four up front. Benitez tends to stick with the plan.

He has a tendency to over-think, to try and work out how to beat every team, when he could merely trust that his troops are better than the opposition, which they frequently are. Sometimes football really is that simple, and it might be a lesson that Benitez would do well to learn.

[Bad Bob]

a bit of generic page-filling but a relatively/surprisingly even analysis from f365.com - esp concerning the "rant"

5 years on :The good and bad of Rafa

THE GOOD

Signing Fernando Torres, Xabi Alonso and Pepe Reina

Quite good players, these three. Would any of them be in the Premier League if it wasn't for Benitez? Real Madrid were Alonso's other main suitor in 2004 (still are), Torres might still be at Atletico had Liverpool not come up with the cash, while Reina would most likely have moved back to Barcelona. In these three - along with Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher - Benitez has created a spine around which Liverpool's success is based, and if he does something daft (like selling Alonso) this summer, their continued title challenge will almost certainly falter.

Keeping - then getting the best from - Steven Gerrard

When Benitez arrived, two of Liverpool's best players were about to jump ship. While Michael Owen left, Gerrard was persuaded to stay (just a couple of weeks after Benitez's appointment too) despite offers of riches and instant success from Chelsea. It happened again the following summer, and while Gerrard claimed it was an emotional decision, Benitez would no doubt have been a major factor.

Keeping him was only a half-success though. After a couple of years shoving him out to the right and occasionally the left of midfield, Benitez realised that his true potential could only be brought out in his current 'free' role. While it might be a stretch to say Benitez alone has converted him from midfielder to support striker, he must be praised for allowing Gerrard to roam free.

Istanbul

The story goes that, as the entire Liverpool side and staff were cavorting around the Ataturk Stadium pitch, Benitez took Jamie Carragher aside and offered some constructive criticism about his positioning during the game.

It's this sort of cold attention to detail that was the centre of Liverpool's comeback. Amid the chaos of half-time, and after setting out a formation that included 12 players, Benitez had the nous and awareness to realise that he had to introduce Dietmar Hamman in order to protect his ravaged defence and midfield. Without this Liverpool probably wouldn't have scored those three goals in six minutes, and certainly wouldn't have prevented Milan from adding more.

Reigniting a rivalry

In this generation of football, there can be few things more flattering than Alex Ferguson recognising you are a threat. The difference between Ferguson's treatment of Benitez and Arsene Wenger at the tail end of last season was telling. While Wenger received the equivalent of a ruffle of the hair and a 'Bless 'em, they play nice football', Benitez was the subject of a cynical and co-ordinated attack from Ferguson and Sam Allardyce, designed to destabilise their season.

Much has been made (on these pages and others) of the 'facts rant', and while it's clear that Ferguson got under Benitez's skin, it's difficult to prove either way that it had a significant impact on Liverpool's season. Sure, they went on a poor run shortly after, but if Benitez had truly been psychologically battered and it had sabotaged Liverpool's season, how do you explain the 4-1 win at Old Trafford?

The improvement in Liverpool's league position since 2004 has been gradual, but last season they were genuine, serious and sustained title contenders for the first time since they last won the thing in 1990. With the right signings, it could be even closer next time.

Surviving the power struggle

18 months ago it looked like Benitez's time at Anfield was done. Disagreements with the American owners and Rick Parry over control (it always is) meant that he was being pushed out, with Tom Hicks and George Gillett even lining up Jurgen Klinsmann to replace him.

How much should be made of the apparent power struggle between Parry and Benitez is unclear, and who actually bought Robbie Keane, but if there really was a row, there's only one winner.

The extent of his victory is perfectly illustrated by the long negotiations over his new contract last season. He rejected every version of the deal that didn't please him, safe in the knowledge that he could ask for a monkey butler and strippers and the club would have to acquiesce, such was and is his power. He now has control over Liverpool's transfer policy, and is shaping the club into his own image.




THE BAD

Blind spots

Strange how some managers have blind spots in certain positions. With Ferguson for a long time it was goalkeepers, for Arsene Wenger centre-backs, but for Benitez it seems to be full-backs. Josemi, Jan Kronkamp, Antonio Barragan, Philip Degen, Andrea Dossena, Alvaro Arbeloa and Fabio Aurelio have been purchased, with arguably only the latter two being successes. And now it looks like he is about to pay a huge fee for the good, but not great, Glen Johnson.

The '7/10' obsession

The fundamental element of Benitez's managerial philosophy is control. He's obsessed with it. One imagines the sort of games that we punters enjoy (the break-neck seven-goalers, the games we remember) are the ones that Benitez hates, because there's no control. They're unpredictable. Anything could happen.

This might explain his early fascination with steady, predictable players that would play quite well and run around a lot every week, but rarely created anything spectacular. It's why he persisted with Dirk Kuyt and eventually found a place for him, as well as Momo Sissoko, Andrei Voronin, Alvaro Arbeloa, Bolo Zenden, Albert Riera, even Craig Bellamy and to an extent Yossi Benayoun.

With the signing of Torres one suspected he finally realised that a mixture of flair and graft is the way to go, which is why their reluctance to chase a player like David Silva is so frustrating.

Rotation

In his early days, you suspected that Benitez made changes to his side almost out of spite, being deliberately obtuse. He famously didn't keep the same side for 99 consecutive games (even that he made no changes for that 100th match suggests stubbornness), and such changes were as much about him not knowing his best side as keeping things fresh. Now, most people could probably name his first-choice eleven, but back then you might as well have picked names from a hat. It's difficult to work out whether the recent success is simply down to keeping a settled side, or the settled side is simply because he has better players now, and can thus more readily trust them.

Questionable transfer record

For every Torres there's a Voronin, for every a Skrtel a Kronkamp, for every Alonso a Nunez. In five years Benitez has signed 45 players, a massive number that smacks of at best trial and error, at worst guessing. Obviously he was unsure in his early days about which players would work in England, but even last summer there were some stinkers.

Philip Degen has yet to make a league appearance (although much of that was down to injury), Andrea Dossena cost £7million, and then there was Robbie Keane. For a manager who is operating on a budget (as he never fails to remind us) much lower than his immediate rivals, he must minimise these sort of judgement errors.

Over-analysis

After Liverpool beat Real Madrid last summer, one of the Spanish papers wrote that you should never play chess with a grandmaster. It's true, and it might be one of the reasons that Liverpool had such a good record in 'big' games last season, while they dropped points against the lesser lights of the Premier League.

Clever thinking and effective tactics are required against Manchester United and Chelsea, but perhaps less so against Stoke and Hull. One suspects against those from the nether regions of the Premier League, Alex Ferguson offers little by way of tactical thinking - he simply says 'You're better than them, go and win it'. Benitez rarely lets his players loose, or goes for all-out attack in the same way that Jose Mourinho used to at Chelsea. If they were losing 1-0 after an hour, Mourinho would chuck on two more strikers and play four up front. Benitez tends to stick with the plan.

He has a tendency to over-think, to try and work out how to beat every team, when he could merely trust that his troops are better than the opposition, which they frequently are. Sometimes football really is that simple, and it might be a lesson that Benitez would do well to learn.

Actually, that is a pretty reasonable assessment of his strengths and weaknesses, all told.  The key question for the "bad" column is whether he's learned from some of those mistakes.  I think he has in terms of the mass rotation but time will tell about the transfers and about the over-thinking against limited opposition.

[Alex G.]

Clever thinking and effective tactics are required against Manchester United and Chelsea, but perhaps less so against Stoke and Hull. One suspects against those from the nether regions of the Premier League, Alex Ferguson offers little by way of tactical thinking - he simply says 'You're better than them, go and win it'.

Spot on.

He should be less tactical and conservative against small clubs.

[DrPepe]

Clever thinking and effective tactics are required against Manchester United and Chelsea, but perhaps less so against Stoke and Hull. One suspects against those from the nether regions of the Premier League, Alex Ferguson offers little by way of tactical thinking - he simply says 'You're better than them, go and win it'.

Spot on.

He should be less tactical and conservative against small clubs.

I especially liked the comments about monkey butlers 

[Judge]

monkey butlers

[aCe']

so ?

excellent replay ace, as you can see this is the most important thread on the board

my apologies your highness...

and that analysis posted by doc was pretty good....

[Judge]

so ?

excellent replay ace, as you can see this is the most important thread on the board

my apologies your highness...

and that analysis posted by doc was pretty good....

thank , only took you a day to post your reply