Liverpool FC Forum

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

My final word on Benitez is this : although this season has been abject in every respect ,(that at least is without doubt) I do believe that any manager on dealing with  the adverse conditions that Rafa has had to deal with ,would have crumbled by now under the intense media speculation and conjecture he has had to endure ,not to mention the war of attrition with the owners who promised him funds to buy the players needed to press on with a realistic title challenge ,you name me one manager that would not have walked after having such personal assurances revoked

A manager with a very lucrative five year contract, with control over all aspects of the club?

What good is overall control if its potency has been severely diluted with a lack of financial backing , Lets face facts Benitez is a very reserved character no one can say they know what his personal stance is in regards to the owners or his 5 year contract ,whether in hindsight he now sees it as a blunder on his behalf to sign a further contract or not ,lets not forget before this his reputation in Europe and last season the Premiership was growing steadily by the minute and even Ferguson was given a wake up call by Liverpool's resurgence ,It seems while the club was in turmoil last season we still didn't allow it to seep through to our performances on the field (well albeit for maybe the last few games )but this season it has had a demoralizing effect on Liverpool's season because of the disparaging media campaign to destabilize the club and its manager ,not to mention your Captain simply refusing to become involved with the importance of the season the hideous and numerous catalogue of injuries we have had to endure ,it all makes for a deadly cocktail that would have devastated any manager regardless of his managerial abilities .

It seems while a lucrative contract might pay the bills ,it is hardly a prerequisite to enhance your reputation as a manager

[account deleted by request]

So now its the media's fault we are playing so badly, and whilst the turmoil behind the scenes had no effect last season it has been a major factor this time around ?

Ferguson was hardly worried about us mate, as he put it "Liverpool had their best season in years and still finished 4 points behind us, I hardly see them improving on that".   

The manager has failed to get anything like the best out of the team this season, he makes too many costly mistakes and every time he comes under threat uses one of his get out of jail free cards ( Real Madrid want me) while the fans try to justify his failure by blaming the owners, lack of funds, the media and anything else they can bring to mind.

We have won nothing for almost 4 years, we have only one player that he bought who has actually WON something with Liverpool. Rafa is the man in charge, he should bear the brunt of any criticism not living on past glories won with a team the majority of whom were brought in by his predecessor.

If he can't do better than this, I know a man that can, in fact I know a couple. 

[roberto green]

If he can't do better than this, I know a man that can, in fact I know a couple. 

Who who? if you tell me i'll go and get them

[Kharhaz]

I think in fairness a fair few did not want rafa to sign a five year contract (myself included) and so its not just this season that has brought on his critics. The flaws were shown before this season. And lets not forget, last season also wasnt going brilliantly then the team picked up there form and went onto a good run, in the meantime rafa got his contract, and the good form continued. Then of course the summer. Rafa could relax, his future is secured, he has the fans on his side so all is good. Then the transfers. I wonder even now how many players looked at those who left and those who came in and thought "hang on a minute...". I would place a good bet Gerrard was one.

Which brings me onto his signings. This sums up the feelings for rafa with regards to the money he has and how he spends it. He signed Johnson. For the price I was miffed. A ludicrous amount for me, could have been better spent however so many on here and elsewhere praised rafa for signing him. After a few games, he looked like he could be decent for us after all. However Aqualani was, well, unknown. All we had were good reports from italy and you tube clips. Benefit of the doubt was given. As the season went on we were all praying Aqualani would be our 'saviour'. It turns out, we have yet to see the best of him. But this is not the players fault.

Which brings me back to rafa. Now that his contract was signed and the fans were all praising his positive tactics, did he attempt to build on that? Or did he take it as another chance this season to experiment, to gel in his other signings from previously and see how they perform? well both sides of the argument could pick up either for me though, its the experiment one. He decided his preferable formation, how his teams set up and stuck with it, regardless.

There is no creativity in the team, just constant negative football. The team is predictable. It has been for a while now and its down to rafa to change it. But we know, stubborn and all that, its his way or the highway. I think he could have more support on his side if he only played positively. Wigan, Lille, Portsmouth, whoever go for it. We dont need so many defence minded players on the pitch. If they score then get the ball forward and score one back. But it isnt like that. Its "at all costs dont concede". This is frustrating for us supporters, it must get players like Torres and Gerrard down even more.

The teams lacking confidence, its lacking passion, its lacking the most basic of skills at times and its these reasons as to why so many of us are blaming rafa. Look at past decisions, playing Crouch on the left wing, taking off gerrard in a match as he is "too passionate", leaving hamann on the bench in a key cup final, convincing alonso to stay by saying "the fans want you to stay so perhaps you should". I think it has all caught up with him this season. Players who have been through it, seeing the consistant inconsistency (funny when you think about it, seeing as we are predictable and all). Seeing good players leave and average players stick around.

He has the ability to spot and sign good players, he also has the ability to drain them of confidence, mess them around and then get rid of them.

We are a mess. He has his good points but after enough time at Liverpool we have all seen he also has his bad points, and its the bad points that have crippled the team.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

So now its the media's fault we are playing so badly, and whilst the turmoil behind the scenes had no effect last season it has been a major factor this time around ?

Ferguson was hardly worried about us mate, as he put it "Liverpool had their best season in years and still finished 4 points behind us, I hardly see them improving on that".   

The manager has failed to get anything like the best out of the team this season, he makes too many costly mistakes and every time he comes under threat uses one of his get out of jail free cards ( Real Madrid want me) while the fans try to justify his failure by blaming the owners, lack of funds, the media and anything else they can bring to mind.

We have won nothing for almost 4 years, we have only one player that he bought who has actually WON something with Liverpool. Rafa is the man in charge, he should bear the brunt of any criticism not living on past glories won with a team the majority of whom were brought in by his predecessor.

If he can't do better than this, I know a man that can, in fact I know a couple. 

I think the media was one point of a virtual myriad of reasons I put forward Saint ,not a specific selling point and I also think Ferguson was more than rattled ,and to his credit I am stating it didn't effect us last year ,because the manager provided enough diversions with his remarks in the press to keep the media of the scent of the growing incompetence of the owners ,which given the problems of this season has been highlighted ,so other than proffering a general futile attempt to explain myself repeatedly we will have to agree to disagree mate 

[account deleted by request]

So now its the media's fault we are playing so badly, and whilst the turmoil behind the scenes had no effect last season it has been a major factor this time around ?

Ferguson was hardly worried about us mate, as he put it "Liverpool had their best season in years and still finished 4 points behind us, I hardly see them improving on that".   

The manager has failed to get anything like the best out of the team this season, he makes too many costly mistakes and every time he comes under threat uses one of his get out of jail free cards ( Real Madrid want me) while the fans try to justify his failure by blaming the owners, lack of funds, the media and anything else they can bring to mind.

We have won nothing for almost 4 years, we have only one player that he bought who has actually WON something with Liverpool. Rafa is the man in charge, he should bear the brunt of any criticism not living on past glories won with a team the majority of whom were brought in by his predecessor.

If he can't do better than this, I know a man that can, in fact I know a couple. 

I think the media was one point of a virtual myriad of reasons I put forward Saint ,not a specific selling point and I also think Ferguson was more than rattled ,and to his credit I am stating it didn't effect us last year ,because the manager provided enough diversions with his remarks in the press to keep the media of the scent of the growing incompetence of the owners ,which given the problems of this season has been highlighted ,so other than proffering a general futile attempt to explain myself repeatedly we will have to agree to disagree mate 

Fair enough mate, we will just agree to disagree. Nothing wrong in having opposing views mate, but maybe next time just admit I am right and save time.   

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

So now its the media's fault we are playing so badly, and whilst the turmoil behind the scenes had no effect last season it has been a major factor this time around ?

Ferguson was hardly worried about us mate, as he put it "Liverpool had their best season in years and still finished 4 points behind us, I hardly see them improving on that".   

The manager has failed to get anything like the best out of the team this season, he makes too many costly mistakes and every time he comes under threat uses one of his get out of jail free cards ( Real Madrid want me) while the fans try to justify his failure by blaming the owners, lack of funds, the media and anything else they can bring to mind.

We have won nothing for almost 4 years, we have only one player that he bought who has actually WON something with Liverpool. Rafa is the man in charge, he should bear the brunt of any criticism not living on past glories won with a team the majority of whom were brought in by his predecessor.

If he can't do better than this, I know a man that can, in fact I know a couple. 

I think the media was one point of a virtual myriad of reasons I put forward Saint ,not a specific selling point and I also think Ferguson was more than rattled ,and to his credit I am stating it didn't effect us last year ,because the manager provided enough diversions with his remarks in the press to keep the media of the scent of the growing incompetence of the owners ,which given the problems of this season has been highlighted ,so other than proffering a general futile attempt to explain myself repeatedly we will have to agree to disagree mate 

Fair enough mate, we will just agree to disagree. Nothing wrong in having opposing views mate, but maybe next time just admit I am right and save time.   

None of that finding common ground malarkey then   

[account deleted by request]

To be honest mate, I don't think there is much common ground left (apart from detesting our owners).  The gulf between the believers and none believers is fast becoming a chasm, even for people of moderate views like you and me. 

The more one side tries to "prove " we can do better, the more the other fights to "prove" we can't. We all want a successful team we just see different ways to achieve it. I believe we have had a good enough team and enough money to do much better than we have done, and blame the manager for much of our lack of success. Others believe the manager has done the best he can with a poor team and lack of funds.

[Kharhaz]

Others believe the manager has done the best he can with a poor team and lack of funds.

Which to me questions when he first took over. Was that team better than what we have now? If so, then whose fault is it that now we are so bad?

If not, then where are the improvements?

I have seen so many arguments for how it is rafas fault, and many have been detailed with facts to back them up.

The pro rafas have yet to put forward a good argument to convince me (and many others) otherwise. The arguments stem from those who are sticking up for rafa as there simply isnt enough for them to go on to argue his case.

[account deleted by request]

Others believe the manager has done the best he can with a poor team and lack of funds.

Which to me questions when he first took over. Was that team better than what we have now? If so, then whose fault is it that now we are so bad?

If not, then where are the improvements?

I have seen so many arguments for how it is rafas fault, and many have been detailed with facts to back them up.

The pro rafas have yet to put forward a good argument to convince me (and many others) otherwise. The arguments stem from those who are sticking up for rafa as there simply isnt enough for them to go on to argue his case.

Spot on mate

[J*o*n*D*o*e]

spot on my ar$e

[account deleted by request]

Try using dettol mate.

[Igor Zidane]

Ok this season is over now , it's finished ,it's been finished since october . What i would like is for everyone who wants the manager sacked for various reason's ,some valid and some not so . To put all there energy into saving our club now . That's a far more important issue than who the manager is , we have to come united on this as there are to many distractions. Sack rafa , lUcas is cack , Kuyt is ,zonal feckin marking . Leave it all for now ,because that will be resolved in the summer one way or another . We must all come together and let the owners know once and for all that they are not welcome and they are not wanted . All the people who want a change in manager you were right and me?we were wrong . There you go ,now forget it and get on with what really imortant at the moment and that,s the future of OUR club . NO MORE DISTRACTIONS ,NO MORE INFIGHTING .UNITY ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE .

[account deleted by request]

Ok this season is over now , it's finished ,it's been finished since october . What i would like is for everyone who wants the manager sacked for various reason's ,some valid and some not so . To put all there energy into saving our club now . That's a far more important issue than who the manager is , we have to come united on this as there are to many distractions. Sack rafa , lUcas is cack , Kuyt is ,zonal feckin marking . Leave it all for now ,because that will be resolved in the summer one way or another . We must all come together and let the owners know once and for all that they are not welcome and they are not wanted . All the people who want a change in manager you were right and me?we were wrong . There you go ,now forget it and get on with what really imortant at the moment and that,s the future of OUR club . NO MORE DISTRACTIONS ,NO MORE INFIGHTING .UNITY ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE .

I fecking knew I was right 

I agree mate, it is the most important issue, the problem is what to do for the best. Purslow says that protests may put new investors off, so do we just stand here waving our dicks in the air or what?

There was talk about direct action against West Ham, talk that Moores will "reveal all" at the end of the season if no investment has been forthcoming etc etc but what more CAN be done?

[Igor Zidane]

Ok this season is over now , it's finished ,it's been finished since october . What i would like is for everyone who wants the manager sacked for various reason's ,some valid and some not so . To put all there energy into saving our club now . That's a far more important issue than who the manager is , we have to come united on this as there are to many distractions. Sack rafa , lUcas is cack , Kuyt is ,zonal feckin marking . Leave it all for now ,because that will be resolved in the summer one way or another . We must all come together and let the owners know once and for all that they are not welcome and they are not wanted . All the people who want a change in manager you were right and me?we were wrong . There you go ,now forget it and get on with what really imortant at the moment and that,s the future of OUR club . NO MORE DISTRACTIONS ,NO MORE INFIGHTING .UNITY ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE .

I fecking knew I was right 

I agree mate, it is the most important issue, the problem is what to do for the best. Purslow says that protests may put new investors off, so do we just stand here waving our dicks in the air or what?

There was talk about direct action against West Ham, talk that Moores will "reveal all" at the end of the season if no investment has been forthcoming etc etc but what more CAN be done?

More protest more banners more idea's mate , not giving up for sure . More people like yourself , with passion for the club . More people to educate , to help educate the tourists and the daytippers .More people to get on board and wake our apathetic support out of there slumber, because while we/they are arguing about Rafa or the players we/they are missing out on the oppotunity to vent our anger and frustration at the route cause of the big big problems in our club and that's the owners . We've nothing to lose now ,ONLY OUR CLUB .