Liverpool FC Forum

by **RedBlood** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:17 am

liverpoolfootballschool wrote:Kuyt is useless. He'd have much more luck playing at a level that suits him like the nearest strip club, he could score while still playing with tits there.

why do you go there??

oh wait my bad you meant lady boobs

by **stmichael** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:57 pm

If we bring in a top class right winger next season it will be interesting to see the effect it has on Kuyt.

For example, I'd like to think that another clever player on the left might up Kuyt's scoring rates even further, as they could keep the ball better (allowing Kuyt time to get into the box), then pick out a better ball in.

In the system that we play, it's more important that whoever plays in that position is prepared to work their boll#cks off for the team, and that is why Dirk has been playing there.

by **stmichael** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:49 am

Dirk Kuyt always in Liverpool's first XI, says Rafael Benitez
....................................................................................

Rafael Benitez says Dirk Kuyt will always be guaranteed a place in his first XI regardless of who he signs in the summer.

The Holland international striker arrived at Anfield three years ago in a £10 million deal but, thanks to his profligacy in front of goal and the signing of Fernando Torres, has been forced to carve out a new niche as an energetic right winger.

While Benitez knows it is not Kuyt's preferred role, he has been so pleased by his development he is prepared to ignore those among the club's support who are desperate for the arrival of a specialist wide man and make Kuyt as untouchable as Torres and Steven Gerrard.

Liverpool forward Dirk Kuyt joins Steven Gerrard in signing new dealHe said: "You could call him Mr Duracell, because of the way he plays, always running and always on the go. But we knew when we signed him that he was that sort of player, because he has been doing it for years.

"He's done really well this year, creating things and scoring goals, but maybe that is because the team is doing better.

"You can use him in so many different ways so you can pretty much guarantee he will be in the starting line-up."

Kuyt seems increasingly likely to face competition for one of Liverpool's wide roles next season from Croatia international Daniel Pranjic after his club, Heerenveen, admitted the winger was desperate to move to Anfield. Liverpool officials are believed to have met his agent Soren Lerby last week to discuss a potential £8 million move.

by **kazza** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:15 am

bigmick wrote:I was kind of being ironic Woof, being forever labelled "negative" and a "doomer and gloomer" and the rest. The truth is mate I just like talking about football. On most things to do with football I've got an opinion, and I'm the first to accept that most of my opinions are formed from a more neutral perspective than the most devout of fans.

Fact is Mick you have been wrong alot. Wrong on Kuyt, wrong on Alonso, wrong on Keane (both buying him and dumping him), you said we would struggle for goals. You said that Raffa will never win the prem (that has yet to be proven but even you have admitted that we can win it) and that he is not a great manager. You were wrong on whether we should offer Raffa a new contract, wrong on Yossi and since Fergie has rotated more than anyone else wrong on the fact you will never win the prem if you heavily rotate a team or wrong that we have had favourable conditions this year even though our two best players were injured for much of the season.

Fact is we are a vastly improved team under Raffa and our progression has been obvious yet you never seemed to see it. There is a reason why you are labled as negative but I will leave it to you to figure it out. You are right about having an opinion however :laugh:

because you certainly do

by **bigmick** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:49 pm

Now lets see, we'll take them one by one.

Wrong on Kuyt? Yes I've been wrong oin him twice but right on him a couple of times as well. Firstly I declared to the world that he would be a legend for Liverpool (oops), then I said he was not up to being a striker for us (on the money). I doubted whether he was capable of making a decent fist of playing right side of midfield (oops) and I think he has a poor first touch (bang on the money).

Wrong on Alonso? Well, I said that he was playing way below his best (bang on the money). I said that if we was to prosper, he needed to come out of the pocket and stop making himself so easy to nullify (bang on the money, it's a football point you'll just have to take my word for it). I said that he was worth low teens in millions at the end of last season, Rafa asked 16 million and although a few teams showed interest, none were prepared to go as high as 16 mill. I would say that was bang on the money as well. I'm not sure where I was wrong on Alonso but we move on.

Wrong on Keane? I thought we'd paid top dollar for him but I think he's a good player. I didn't advocate his signing beforehand to any great extent, but I wasn't gutted when we got him. I think we handled him ridiculously, and choosing to sell him without bringing in a replacement arguably contriuted to us perhaps not winning the title, so I'm not sure where I was wrong there. If we weren't going to play him, there was little point in keeping him so I think you may have got me confused with someone else here, although I've no doubt you'll spend the rest of the day searching for quotes to the contrary.

I did say rafa will not win the Prem, and I'm glad you pointed out that I've already said that has been disproven simply because we have a chance of winning it. We haven't won it yet of course, but it would be silly to deny that we CAN win it given what we've seen this season. I did also say that in order to challenge we needed to rotate significantly less, and we needed to attack significantly more. I've been saying the same thing for four seasons now, and been contradicted and argued with many times by people such as your good self. I've said it so often I've got almost as bored saying it as you've got reading it (though I accept not quite as much).

The irony of being told I was wrong all along, despite the fact we are now rotating significantly less and are attacking significantly more and are challenging for the title isn't lost on me :laugh:

I can't think of a scenario in which I could possibly be proven more right to be honest, so we'll move on from that one.

I was wrong on whether we should offer rafa a new contract? Possibly, but perhaps it's not as clear cut as you think. I advocated waiting until the end of the season and then reasessing the situation. I'd offer him a contract as of now for sure, but once again the public wrangling did nothing for our title challenge. Wrong? perhaps, but we'll see. As for the "great manager" thing, he isn't. He may yet prove to be one, but so far based on what he has done in English football, he isn't. Great managers of Liverpool Football Club win titles, cups, leagues etc. rafa may yet do some of those things, but so far based on what he's won and done, there is long way to go. I suspect we have a different definition of "great" here, which is cool.

Wrong on Yossi? I think I was harsh on him yes, and he has proven himself to be useful as an "options and possibilties" player. There are many reasons for that I think, but as I know you don't go a bundle on actual football debate, I'll concede I was harsh on him/wrong about him and move on.

Wrong on the rotation thing? Oh dear. Fergie style and Rafa style (as was) are very different animals. I won't go into them now as once again I know you'll glaze over (as will I to be truthful) but no, with the greatest respect I'm amazed you even want to bring rotation up. Like so many others who have given me and others abuse on the subject over the years, you have been proven to be 100% categorically wrong. Even the manager accepts it now, he even talks about it in interviews

Stick to the "it would have worked if we had better players" line, that is just about the last place on the desert island which hasn't been engulfed by the tide of common sense.

Favourable conditions I've kind of covered over these last few days. It seems some people don't understand the concept, and you are one of them. There's no need for us to fall out over it, but if you think that the Arsenal team this season is as good as it was last season, and if you think that Chelsea wouldn't have been stronger if Hiddink was there all season, then we'll just have to agree to differ. If you think their strength has no bearing on how well we perform, then ditto. When they improve next season though and you and others are bleating about them being a "completely different team" don't be surprised when I remind you of this conversation. As I said earlier, maybe Chelsea will get another manager who thinks Deco is the answer in English football, but then again maybe they won't. If you think those teams are strong relative to what they normally are, then peachy. In this sense, the circumstances have been favourable.

When you talk of two of our best players being injured for much of the season, I can only assume you mean Torres (who was a loss) and Deggen (who I must confess I've never seen play). They are the only two players I can think of who have missed a lot of matches. That said, we did spend/spunk 20 million quid buying a player to cover for the Torres eventuality eight months ago, but presumably it's my fault that the signing never "worked out".

As for the "vast improvement" it is obvious as you say (you saw it). That's probably why I said two seasons ago we were good enough to challenge for the title, and said during and at the end of last season that we were "plenty good enough" to seriously challenge for the title. As I remember you were busy telling everyone that we couldn't challenge because the owners sent some dodgy emails/Rick Parry was a clown/we were outmuscled financially by the big clubs.

Now we ARE challenging though, even though I said what we needed to do in order to challenge, even though i said we were plenty good enough to challenge of we did those things, even though one of our most influencial players this season I explained quite clearly what he needed to do in order to revisit his best form, I called it wrong.

Guilty as charged, I was wrong about everything and you were right mate :laugh:

by **Festy** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:54 pm

WTF mick......can you just sum everything up in 2 lines whatever you posted above ?

by **GYBS** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:56 pm

Mick he put out the rod , hung a little worm onto the hook and your grabbed hold of it like a big juicy trout :laugh:

by **bigmick** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:56 pm

Seriously I apologise to Kazza for the snidey nature of the post, but really. To say with a straight face that I was wrong about rotation just about takes the old biscuit, feck me how much proof does someone need :laugh:

.

by **GYBS** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:58 pm

was there not a stat from someone that showed we have rotated this season just as much as previous seasons ? which is still less than man utd .

by **bigmick** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:08 pm

GYBS wrote:was there not a stat from someone that showed we have rotated this season just as much as previous seasons ? which is still less than man utd .

I doubt it GYBS, but even if there were it wouldn't alter the point. The point is you don't hit the ground runnign with mass rotation, swapping players willy nilly from game one of the season. If players are going to get tired, you actually wait until they are tired before you start changing them around. You don't plunge yourself into the baloney of Brammall Lane, or the farce of Fratton park or the madness at the Madjeski by thinking you are playing football manager when you are selecting the team.

Check out the rotation thread and you'll see the debate in there. It's not totally about 2.87 changes to the team per game, it's who you change, when you change them etc. Rafa has said himself there have been less changes this season, and there have. There's been less ridiculous ones, but still a few here and there. There's been no Peter Crouch on the left wing, but we have had Martin Skyrtel at right back to counter Stewart Downing, and Fabio Aurelio in central midfield.

Gradually we have got the hang of the fact that if you try and take the p!ss out of teams in the Premiership, you lose/draw football matches. It's taken four and a half years, but finally we've got it.

by **GYBS** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:23 pm

But isnt that because the standard of players that have been brought in are of a better standard than we previously had at the club . Crouch played out left for about 20 mins was it in the cl quarter against arsenal ?? as he was in form and people wanted in him the starting line up so at first torres was shoved out there to let crouch play - it didnt work they moved crouch out there for 20 mins then subbed him for babel - the rest they say is history .

Against teams like pompey players like kuyt and torres have been rested with players like babel and benny coming in . Sami has come in , insua ,lucas , agger as well as benny and babel and lucas - better standard than we had previously to be brought in . Changes were made at the begining of the season , players were rotated and rested . So Rotation itself works as the winners of the prem have been doing in for the last 5 years . Why wait till they are tired before rotating them when if they are tired they could easily succumb to injury , as opposed to trying to keep players a lot more fresher throughout the season .

The fundamentals for rotation are spot on , it all boils down to the standard of players that are brought in to replace players . man Utd have the luxury of resting rooney or berbatov and bringing in tevez - we bring in Ngog , they rest ronaldo etc and rbing in nani , they rest scholes or giggs or carrick and bring in fletcher or Anderson.

by **Reg** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:44 pm

Festy wrote:WTF mick......can you just sum everything up in 2 lines whatever you posted above ?

I have to take a day off work whenever Mick posts.

by **fivecups** » Sun May 31, 2009 12:45 pm

Who is the loudest in the squad?

I think that's Jamie Carragher! He's always shouting at people and telling them what to do on the pitch – it seems like you can hear him from everywhere. Sometimes he's so loud you just have to laugh about it.

Who has got the hardest shot?

When Riise was here it was definitely him, but now it must be Stevie Gerrard! Daniel Agger can really hit the ball hard and has scored some great goals for us, but I think Stevie just has more power.

Who is the best at FIFA 09?

Fernando Torres and Javier Mascherano play the FIFA games a lot on away trips, but I'm not sure who is the best! Hopefully they'll both let me get involved soon because I know I would be better than them!

Who's the cleverest?

Most people say footballers aren't very intelligent! It's hard to tell because we spend most of our time talking football, but I think Xabi Alonso is quite clever – at least he thinks he's clever anyway!

Who is the strongest?

The whole squad does weights a few times a week after training and Pepe Reina is the strongest. If there was a competition to see who could lift the most weights or do the most squats, Pepe would definitely win!

Who is your best mate?

I get on with all the lads, but I play golf with Pepe Reina and Albert Riera whenever I get the chance. Yossi Benayoun plays poker with us sometimes as well, so I probably spend the most time with them.

Who's the club DJ?

I don't want to big myself up but the lads always ask me to put my iPod on before games. It's probably because I'm the only one who has an iPod with me! I try to get a good mix of songs to keep everyone happy.

Who's the fastest?

We always do sprint tests at Liverpool so that's an easy one. We did the tests a couple of weeks ago and Ryan Babel was easily the fastest – even quicker than Fernando. I think he did athletics when he was younger.

Who is Mr Liverpool?

I think Carra knows everything – not only about Liverpool but about football in general. He eats and sleeps football and watches it every day, so he knows everything about the club. Steven Gerrard knows a lot about Liverpool too.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun May 31, 2009 1:08 pm

bigmick wrote:Seriously I apologise to Kazza for the snidey nature of the post, but really. To say with a straight face that I was wrong about rotation just about takes the old biscuit, feck me how much proof does someone need .

'"Rafa-Style", changing the team, the formation and/or the positions which the players play in with the frequency and to the degree which Rafa does will never be successful in the English premier League...

... But when Ferguson does it and wins a treble, including the league, I'm still right...'

Could it possibly be things like this, Mick?

by **Madmax** » Sun May 31, 2009 1:15 pm

Reg wrote:
Festy wrote:WTF mick......can you just sum everything up in 2 lines whatever you posted above ?

I have to take a day off work whenever Mick posts.

lol for me its a fortnight

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