Liverpool FC Forum

by **woof woof !** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:08 pm

Sabre wrote:I don't think it's bad to think he's not good enough for Liverpool, but when it comes to criticism Kuyt is always under siege, and we don't forgive him any mistake, where as we do that with other players.

A fair point Sabre, Kuyts control is at times an embarrassment for someone playing at this level and yesterday he also missed a gift of goal from Babels pass. However on a day when once again he's ran his socks of and we've come out winners surely as fans we can give the fella a break.

Personally I was more aggrieved with some aspects of Mascherano's performance yesterday. OK overall he had a good game but he cost us the Man U goal and almost presented them a second with a sloppy cross field pass. As you mention, some players mistakes are overlooked whilst others are continually crucified.

by **woof woof !** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:19 pm

Effes wrote:If we consider Riera a starter for us, surely Kuyt's place is under threat - Babel should
now be out on the right.

I like the sound of Riera wide left and Babel wide right. Let Kuyt AND Keane slug it out for the second striker position if Rafa wants two up front.

. Riena
.
. Arbeloa Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

. Babel Gerrard Alonso/Mascherano Riera
.
. Kuyt/Keane Torres

by **dawson99** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:44 pm

kuyt set up the winning goal yesterday. looked up, saw babel, passed straight to him. i still think we're better when hes with us than not with us. yes there are better players, but i liked kuyt van dammit and every game certain people continue to slag him off, but every game he seems to do something which helps, not hinders us

by **ConnO'var** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:00 pm

woof woof ! wrote:

I'm sorry but that had me bringing coffee out me nose, I was laughing so hard!

by **Dutchsky** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:55 pm

Kuyt was essential again...
Great determination, vision and effort.
He keeps 2 men busy most of the time.

who cares he doesn't have a bergkamp-firsttouch

by **maguskwt** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:26 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Effes wrote:If we consider Riera a starter for us, surely Kuyt's place is under threat - Babel should
now be out on the right.

I like the sound of Riera wide left and Babel wide right. Let Kuyt AND Keane slug it out for the second striker position if Rafa wants two up front.

. Riena
.
. Arbeloa Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

. Babel Gerrard Alonso/Mascherano Riera
.
. Kuyt/Keane Torres

my concern with babel is his work rate and his one-dimensionality (don't know if such a word exists

) ... babel as a talent is far better than kuyt... but kuyt IMO is giving us alot in games with his work rate , his willingness to track back as well as him harrying the opponents. IMO, we saw on saturday how rafa wanted to play, his version of an ideal performance by his team. That is to pressure the opponents from up front and not give them space to play their passing game and also to overlap with full backs and put in dangerious crosses. If that is the case then kuyt is playing the way rafa wants the team to play and it's no wonder that rafa likes kuyt alot. He also is allowing arbeloa to overlap more and put in decent crosses purely because of his stamina and his willingness to track back. Does babel have what it takes to play that kind of game? IMO he's the most destructive when he comes on as a sub and is fast gaining reputation as super-sub. Ole gunnar solksjear did a similar job for the mancs and we all know how they benefitted from the norwegian. And right now kuyt is making things happen on the pitch even when playing as a right winger. Yes he has a bad first touch and I was complaining the whole match against the mancs about his first touch. AND he should have scored two with first van der sar's spilling of the ball and then later on when he had time to put it away. but without him and keane playing the pressure game would man united have surrendered their lead? I am very much doubtful... and why change something that's working? that is babel coming on as a sub and scoring and kuyt giving us 110% in every game...

by **Effes** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:05 pm

maguskwt wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
Effes wrote:If we consider Riera a starter for us, surely Kuyt's place is under threat - Babel should
now be out on the right.

I like the sound of Riera wide left and Babel wide right. Let Kuyt AND Keane slug it out for the second striker position if Rafa wants two up front.

. Riena
.
. Arbeloa Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

. Babel Gerrard Alonso/Mascherano Riera
.
. Kuyt/Keane Torres

my concern with babel is his work rate and his one-dimensionality (don't know if such a word exists ) ... babel as a talent is far better than kuyt... but kuyt IMO is giving us alot in games with his work rate , his willingness to track back as well as him harrying the opponents. IMO, we saw on saturday how rafa wanted to play, his version of an ideal performance by his team. That is to pressure the opponents from up front and not give them space to play their passing game and also to overlap with full backs and put in dangerious crosses. If that is the case then kuyt is playing the way rafa wants the team to play and it's no wonder that rafa likes kuyt alot. He also is allowing arbeloa to overlap more and put in decent crosses purely because of his stamina and his willingness to track back. Does babel have what it takes to play that kind of game? IMO he's the most destructive when he comes on as a sub and is fast gaining reputation as super-sub. Ole gunnar solksjear did a similar job for the mancs and we all know how they benefitted from the norwegian. And right now kuyt is making things happen on the pitch even when playing as a right winger. Yes he has a bad first touch and I was complaining the whole match against the mancs about his first touch. AND he should have scored two with first van der sar's spilling of the ball and then later on when he had time to put it away. but without him and keane playing the pressure game would man united have surrendered their lead? I am very much doubtful... and why change something that's working? that is babel coming on as a sub and scoring and kuyt giving us 110% in every game...

It's a valid point - but surely Babel can get coached by Rafa to do more
tracking back?

by **woof woof !** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:45 pm

maguskwt wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
Effes wrote:If we consider Riera a starter for us, surely Kuyt's place is under threat - Babel should
now be out on the right.

I like the sound of Riera wide left and Babel wide right. Let Kuyt AND Keane slug it out for the second striker position if Rafa wants two up front.

. Riena
.
. Arbeloa Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

. Babel Gerrard Alonso/Mascherano Riera
.
. Kuyt/Keane Torres

my concern with babel is his work rate and his one-dimensionality (don't know if such a word exists ) ... babel as a talent is far better than kuyt... but kuyt IMO is giving us alot in games with his work rate , his willingness to track back as well as him harrying the opponents. IMO, we saw on saturday how rafa wanted to play, his version of an ideal performance by his team. That is to pressure the opponents from up front and not give them space to play their passing game and also to overlap with full backs and put in dangerious crosses. If that is the case then kuyt is playing the way rafa wants the team to play and it's no wonder that rafa likes kuyt alot. He also is allowing arbeloa to overlap more and put in decent crosses purely because of his stamina and his willingness to track back. Does babel have what it takes to play that kind of game? IMO he's the most destructive when he comes on as a sub and is fast gaining reputation as super-sub. Ole gunnar solksjear did a similar job for the mancs and we all know how they benefitted from the norwegian. And right now kuyt is making things happen on the pitch even when playing as a right winger. Yes he has a bad first touch and I was complaining the whole match against the mancs about his first touch. AND he should have scored two with first van der sar's spilling of the ball and then later on when he had time to put it away. but without him and keane playing the pressure game would man united have surrendered their lead? I am very much doubtful... and why change something that's working? that is babel coming on as a sub and scoring and kuyt giving us 110% in every game...

Fair comment there Mag, certainly the work rate put in by Kuyt and Keane in harrying Man U was perhaps fundamental to our win BUT do we really want to see two Strikers employed as front line stoppers because maybe they lack the skill to perform a strikers primary duty ?

Doin' my head in now

Maybe you're right, maybe we have to acknowledge the players limitations and just accept that Rafa's game plan demands that Kuyt and Keane play within them.

Square pegs, round holes , not the first time we've had previously successful players fail to live up to their billing when they come to LFC

by **GYBS** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:01 am

Lol brilliant - Kuyt has another great game - sets up the winning goal - works twice as hard as anyone else on the picth gets in great positions - gets his shots on target and if it wasnt for two great saves would of been on the score sheet - kuyt didnt miss sitters he got them on target and the keeper made great saves and he was praised in the ground and in the pub after . keane missed sitters . great work rate thou from him as well but great game from kuyt once agian but no doubt people will still have a pop .

by **Yooj Bigullz** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:23 am

GYBS wrote:Lol brilliant - Kuyt has another great game - sets up the winning goal - works twice as hard as anyone else on the picth gets in great positions - gets his shots on target and if it wasnt for two great saves would of been on the score sheet - kuyt didnt miss sitters he got them on target and the keeper made great saves and he was praised in the ground and in the pub after . keane missed sitters . great work rate thou from him as well but great game from kuyt once agian but no doubt people will still have a pop .

He played very well, no denying that. There will always be doubts over his quality as far as I'm concerned. Nearly a year since his last league goal.

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:33 am

Kuyt did pretty well lets be honest. He did what he does best, running around a lot and generally making a nuisance of himself (and on this occasion it was almost all to the opposition

) He did miss a couple of gilt edged chances, particulary the one at the end but no harm done as it turned out. All in all he contributed very well, and I have no doubt that he and Keane's energy were instrumental in the result, such effort often is and was contageous.

I do think though that perhaps as the debate has been as long as it has, people sometimes get a little precious in their defence of the Dutchman. I came on here in the immediate aftermatch of the victory and took the micky a bit, but really it was really in jest and I hope that was fairly obvious, as I think it was with other posters comments.

In defence of the player, we then get people getting a little carried away. I think a good example of that is Kuyts pass for the winner. He squared it to an unmarked Babel, and it will go down as an assist. The significant piece of play in the passage though was Masherano winning the ball in the oppsitions box. I'm not saying that to begrudge the credit to Kuyt, I am simply pointing out the obvious. When Manchester United conduct their post mertem into the goal, they won't talk about how Babel was free, they'll discuss at length the ramifications of being disposessed of the football in their own box.

Anyway, like I said I think he did well and good luck to him. It couldn't by all accounts happen to a nicer fella.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:15 am

GYBS wrote:gets his shots on target and if it wasnt for two great saves would of been on the score sheet - kuyt didnt miss sitters he got them on target and the keeper made great saves

Before I go any further, let me make it clear that I thought Kuyt had a great game for us and really caused the Mancs problems. That said, I'd hardly say it was great goalkeeping that kept him off the score sheet. Fair enough, the first one was debatable--Kuyt got off a decent effort but Van Der Sar had it covered. I think someone like Torres might have found the wherewithall to go across the keeper even despite the speed at which it all unfolded but, I digress. The second one, though, was a bad miss. Babel gave him the ball on a silver platter, the goal was at his mercy and he was under very little pressure and he still hit it right at Van Der Sar. Those really are the kinds of chances you expect your strikers to put away. Not taking anything away from the lad's performance...just disputing the idea that it was Van Der Sar's brilliance that denied Dirk a goal or two.

by **pokster** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:08 am

You can say its Macherano's credit for the second goal. Many players would have turned their back or staying put in their positions when the ball was seemingly going out of the bye-line. But not Kuyt, he showed the willingness to fight for every second balls/loose balls and created Babel's goal. He did not miss those shots, the fact is, the keeper saved them. Kuyt is the un sung hero of the team.

by **pokster** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:10 am

Just a thought. Who would win if you were to put a team of Carraghers vs a team of Kuyts ?

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:34 am

pokster wrote:Just a thought. Who would win if you were to put a team of Carraghers vs a team of Kuyts ?

Nobody. It'd be 0-0.

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