Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:32 am

As far as i can tell, what you see is what you get with Kuyt. A footballer with a tremendous attitude, a fantastic work ethic, unbelievable stamina BUt unfortunately for us, fairly limited football ability and physical attributes.

Unfortunately im resigning myself to that fact also. Ive bragged about when I thought Torres would be a great signing, ive also bragged that we wouldnt miss alonso but with kuyt ive been proved wrong. Not on todays performance, just on the fact that he doesnt look like scoring, now in the past ive put it down to confidence, and even now that could well be the case but all players snap out of it after a while and get back to form, im still waiting for kuyt to do just that.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:42 am

Scottbot wrote:
MilitiaRusher wrote:Has it ever occured to you that Kuyt might've been instructed by Rafa to play that deep, just like what Rafa used to do with Morientes as well as with Crouch?

Sure Rafa likes one of his strikers too play a deeper role, that's why he always goes on about playing "in between the lines" but as far as i can see Kuyt is playing pretty much his natural game. No player can play under orders for two full seasons without reverting back to their natural game at various stages. Put Harry Kewell out on the right wing for a season (let's assume he stays fit!) and tell him to hug that touch-line and you can guarantee he will drify inside during every game, same goes for Gerrard when he's asked to play right-mid. If Kuyt was this fox in the box, goal-scoring, ball attacking centre-forward we kinda hoped we were getting then i'm sure we would have seen some of that by now. To be honest i don't think he looks particularly comfortable (at least not in the epl) playing higher up the pitch. He doesn't have the wheels to play on the shoulder and offer a threat in behind (and he knows it) and you don't often see him sit just in front of the last man with his back to goal offering feet like a Peter Crouch does.

As far as i can tell, what you see is what you get with Kuyt. A footballer with a tremendous attitude, a fantastic work ethic, unbelievable stamina BUt unfortunately for us, fairly limited football ability and physical attributes.

Spot on, Scott. :nod

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:49 am

well at least people are starting to see what I have been saying since midway through last season, it doesn't matter where rafa tells him to play, his lack of control, his inability to pass, his lack of pace, and his poor finishing are all down to kuyt and not rafa, however rafa needs to shoulder some of the blame for persisting with him to the detriment of the team,

Dirk kuyt, nice guy, a trier, but a sh!t footballer

by **kazza** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:09 am

I think Kuyt is what you see. Like was said a great engine, attitude and spirit. A finisher he is not but he is not too old to become one. If you think he is a "sh1t footballer" then you are clueless. A sh1t footballer is anyone on this forum (professional players aside) but not anyone that plays as a pro in the EPL. To say so is idiotic and afterall he is in the Dutch team wether a starter or not.

With all his critisim I decided to play close attention to his play the last few games. He saves our bacon an many occasions by getting back and defending and regaining possession. He is probably the best "team player" we have and the hardest worker. His technical skills are good and he does hold the ball up well. What he lacks is flair and that is all (and that could well be due to Raffa's instructions). Had he put away a few more of his chances (afterall scoring and missing is seperated by mere inches) then all the idiots calling him sh1t would be singing his praises.

I am not a particular fan of Kuyt (aside from the fact he is a Liverpool player, I am in agreement with Saint that we need a creative second striker rather than one that defends well) but I see what he does and get irritated hearing everyone say he is sh1t. He is not and I think 90% of Kuyt is game is following his coach's instructions other wise why would Raffa continue to play him.

It is too easy to talk sh1t, but does not make you correct.

Peewee is you old lady happy? Because if your fooking is anything like your football knowledge, you could not find the G-spot on a fifteen pound pussy. :laugh:

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:55 am

kazza wrote:I think Kuyt is what you see. Like was said a great engine, attitude and spirit. A finisher he is not but he is not too old to become one. If you think he is a "sh1t footballer" then you are clueless. A sh1t footballer is anyone on this forum (professional players aside) but not anyone that plays as a pro in the EPL. To say so is idiotic and afterall he is in the Dutch team wether a starter or not.

With all his critisim I decided to play close attention to his play the last few games. He saves our bacon an many occasions by getting back and defending and regaining possession. He is probably the best "team player" we have and the hardest worker. His technical skills are good and he does hold the ball up well. What he lacks is flair and that is all (and that could well be due to Raffa's instructions). Had he put away a few more of his chances (afterall scoring and missing is seperated by mere inches) then all the idiots calling him sh1t would be singing his praises.

I am not a particular fan of Kuyt (aside from the fact he is a Liverpool player, I am in agreement with Saint that we need a creative second striker rather than one that defends well) but I see what he does and get irritated hearing everyone say he is sh1t. He is not and I think 90% of Kuyt is game is following his coach's instructions other wise why would Raffa continue to play him.

It is too easy to talk sh1t, but does not make you correct.

Peewee is you old lady happy? Because if your fooking is anything like your football knowledge, you could not find the G-spot on a fifteen pound pussy.

It started off funny mate until you made it personal, maybe you have a 15 pounder and that's why you bloke fked off sharpish.

Now to football, no doubt I have played football to a higher level than some bint and for you to make kuyt out to be anything other than sh*t shows a lack of knowledge, you will be telling me Diao was world class next because he played in the world cup

by **Scottbot** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:00 am

peewee wrote:well at least people are starting to see what I have been saying since midway through last season, it doesn't matter where rafa tells him to play, his lack of control, his inability to pass, his lack of pace, and his poor finishing are all down to kuyt and not rafa, however rafa needs to shoulder some of the blame for persisting with him to the detriment of the team,

Dirk kuyt, nice guy, a trier, but a sh!t footballer

Yes mate, you were the only one to doubt Kuyt's ability last season, the rest of us thought differently but now we see you were correct all the time. Get a grip.

Also, i don't agree entirely with your assessment. I don't think Kuyt's first touch or passing are necessarily poor, just average. I don't have a problem with Kuyt's ball retention, for the most part he keeps it fairly simple but therein lies one of the problems, we need quite a bit more than that from our second striker. As for his control, it isn't that bad, am not saying it's brilliant but he doens't usually have a problem killing a ball first time.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:08 am

He can trap it further than most of us can kick it, you do know which one kuyt is don't you?

by **Scottbot** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:15 am

peewee wrote:He can trap it further than most of us can kick it, you do know which one kuyt is don't you?

Second touch a sliding tackle!

But seriously, his touch isn't terrible, i'd say it is fairly average like much of his game. He just isn't quite up to this level for me, at least not at Liverpool where teams sit back and demand we do something special to score. For me it's very similar to Sissoko's situation, they are both good players who aren't quite up to it but would do very well at a lower table side where expectations are less and the opposition come out and play a bit more.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:17 am

Scottbot wrote:
peewee wrote:He can trap it further than most of us can kick it, you do know which one kuyt is don't you?

Second touch a sliding tackle!

But seriously, his touch isn't terrible, i'd say it is fairly average like much of his game. He just isn't quite up to this level for me, at least not at Liverpool where teams sit back and demand we do something special to score. For me it's very similar to Sissoko's situation, they are both good players who aren't quite up to it but would do very well at a lower table side where expectations are less and the opposition come out and play a bit more.

yes mate, he is a lower league player on his current form, sadly his current form is only slightly less than the best i have ever seen from him, he is not a good player, i like the guy and i like his work ethic, but he just doesnt cut the mustard

by **dawson99** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:32 am

you like the guy? do me a lemon.

i think hes under too much pressure. he knwos hes not playng as well as he did last season (where he scored a load of our goals) and Rafa needs to give the guy a breather. maybe its personal stuff, but hes better than what weve seen. hes playing too deep, his crosses are weak and he should just be poaching.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:45 am

I think Rafa would do well to tell Kuyt to just forget all about dropping deep and chasing the ball in wide areas. Nail the f*cker to the last man, and let's see if he has anything else to show us.

I'm sick and tired of reading about him being a worker, exactly the kind of grafter Rafa likes in his teams, blah blah blah because it's absolute b*llocks. You don't relentlessly chase a player that was scoring a goal every 120 minutes for his qualities as a central midfielder. We signed him as a goalscorer, and he's simply not done anything even close to the business since arriving.

Ian Rush was absolutely brilliant and relatively unsung at coming back and helping break up opposing play, but did it stop him scoring hatfuls each season? B*llocks did it. Kuyt clearly isn't capable of doing both. And I wouldn't mind, but look at the players we have at our disposal in central midfield - Kuyt's a square peg into a round hole that doesn't even exist. Half the time he's occupying an area of the pitch that Mascherano or Gerrard are more than capable of managing, and the net result is that we get more and more withdrawn, and whoever's alongside him up front gets totally isolated.

Either Rafa needs to play him as an out-and-out striker, or for me he just shouldn't play him. There is something to be said for having a guy playing just off Torres, but it's plain to see that Kuyt's not the person to do it, so why not just throw them both up right on the defensive line and give us a bit more unpredictability? When Kuyt gets the ball somewhere vaguely advanced, it doesn't take a genius to work out that his first thought is "is a pass to Torres on?". Yesterday he did alright, but when a guy puts in a performance that's average by any top team's standard, and it feels like an occasion to get the bunting out, he's just not good enough.

We've carried strikers that don't cut it for years now, and while we're showing enough elsewhere in the side to get us into the top 4 regularly, just look at the teams above us and see how it's a problem they don't have. Emile Heskey would be an improvement on Kuyt right now, and if that doesn't get the alarm bells ringing, god only knows what will.

This was always a make-or-break season for the lad in my eyes, yet while Rafa's shown persistent faith in him, we're still waiting for him to explode into some kind of form.

Off the leash, or on the plane out for me.

by **Seano Kop** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:46 am

peewee wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
peewee wrote:He can trap it further than most of us can kick it, you do know which one kuyt is don't you?

Second touch a sliding tackle!

But seriously, his touch isn't terrible, i'd say it is fairly average like much of his game. He just isn't quite up to this level for me, at least not at Liverpool where teams sit back and demand we do something special to score. For me it's very similar to Sissoko's situation, they are both good players who aren't quite up to it but would do very well at a lower table side where expectations are less and the opposition come out and play a bit more.

yes mate, he is a lower league player on his current form, sadly his current form is only slightly less than the best i have ever seen from him, he is not a good player, i like the guy and i like his work ethic, but he just doesnt cut the mustard

He didn't get the season off to a great start to be fair. His dad passed away with cancer before the season kicks of.

And I ask you, had his header gone in today, would you be saying all of this? Doubt it. cough*bandwagons*cough

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:56 am

dawson99 wrote:you like the guy? do me a lemon.

i think hes under too much pressure. he knwos hes not playng as well as he did last season (where he scored a load of our goals) and Rafa needs to give the guy a breather. maybe its personal stuff, but hes better than what weve seen. hes playing too deep, his crosses are weak and he should just be poaching.

Kuyt has played a few games as the front striker (with Voronin) and has looked as bad if not worse than when he has played deeper.

He seems to have lost a yard of pace, has no anticipation, has no great creative vision or ability, poor first touch, for a tall striker is poor in the air, and his only great asset is his work ethic and from what I vaguely remember a good shot, but its that long since we have seen it, it may just be a myth.

If we got offered £8 million for him, who on here would turn it down? Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen, and the best we can hope for is he is included in some kind of swop deal when we buy a top striker.

The sad thing is he is such a likeable character who would run through a brick wall for the team and who I really wanted to be a huge success for us. Never going to happen though.

by **ivor_the_injun** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:59 am

I honestly can't see another side in the Prem paying more than a few mill for him, and the b*gger is that although most Dutch sides would love to have him, none of them have a vast amount of cash to throw about.

Sadly, I sense another of those "undisclosed fee"-style exits either this summer or next.

by **imouthep** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:15 pm

Swop deal with ajax maybe huntelaar? Highly unlikely though and huntelaar is also slightly unproven may flop in the prem.

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