Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:32 pm

Can you believe that the bookies are paying out already on Chelsea winning the league :angry:

FFS it only September they have ruined the game, what the point in any club playing in the prem now? What for just a CL spot and a UEFA cup place.

Hope this back fires, cheating rent boy b@stards if Lump of lard and Terry get crocked watch them start loosing big time. God hate that club and all it stands for.
Our lads done us very proud last night and so did Rafa totally outclassed them on everything.

by **Alonso14** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:36 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Traore was good defensively but got beat in the air by Shaun Wright-Phillips.

He was also in some funny positions when he drifted in a bit too much and alowed the ball to be played over the top of him and into duffs path.

but on the whole he looked good.

by **andy_g** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:53 pm

i also thought traore had a pretty decent (by his standards) game last night. but its obvious the guy has very little confidence in his own ability, when he's in posession of the ball the speed of his decision making is painfully slow and momentum can be lost. several times last night he found himself in an advanced position on the left flank as we were going forward, but even when he had a load of space he'd put his foot on the ball and look around for someone to give it too. any more confident or better player (riise? warnock?) could have attacked a lot of that space or at least kept the momentum of a move going.

but anyway, apart from losing track of where the ball was a couple of times and missing easy headers he did alright i suppose.

by **7_Kewell** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:56 pm

but anyway, apart from losing track of where the ball was a couple of times and missing easy headers he did alright i suppose.

agreed but i think Warnock will be starting Sunday and he's got the makings of our next regular left back.

by **JC_81** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:05 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Traore was good defensively but got beat in the air by Shaun Wright-Phillips.

Good defensively?

Hope that was sarcasm Stu, or else I didn't watch the same game. He was all over the place, how many times did he get caught out with the cross-field ball into either Duff or Robbens' feet? The guy is incapable of judging the flight of the ball and where it's going to land, it's agonising to watch.

And his distribution was poor as well. Too slow to release the ball when he's under pressure, and when he does it's invariably a scooped long ball to no one. He gave away possession countless times last night.

I can't believe how poor he is in the air for a big lad, SWP beating him in the air was just taking the :censored:

.

The one thing he did well, as he always does, is make good recovery tackles with those long legs of his, but he wouldn't need to do it so often if he had decent positional sense.

Traore can play better than that, he had a good season last year and showed good improvement. Last night's poor display can partly be put down to rustiness as he's not long back from injury, but bottom line is he's not good enough. Can't believe Benitez rates this guy, offering him a new 4 year deal over the summer :no

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:50 pm

Of course it was sarcasm.

I'm with you 100% and can't believe Rafa sees anything in Traore.

His attitude seems good, i'll give him that. Ability though?

What ability? He's shocking. :no

by **HantsRed** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:54 pm

Did anyone else see Mourinho talking away to the Ref as they came out of the tunnel at half time last night?
Wasn't that what he got so upset with Rikkard and Barca last season!!!

Overall, very good performance from the boys I thought and the "Special One" looked more like the Scared One to me.

by **JBG** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:56 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Luis Garcia was superb last night.

That was Traore's best game for Liverpool last night. He looked more assured than ever, yet still made mistakes and his passing was simply a disgrace. Alot of moves broke down with him. However there was one incident where he played a good ball to Gerrard and didn't demand the ball back off the captain. Had he the bottle to d that he'd have been through on goal providing he'd taken a half decent touch.

I thought Garcia did ok, I'm not really a massive fan, and he showed some of his bad points last night, yet again.

He thinks he has more ability than he actually has, looking up and thinking about the next move before the ball comes to him, only for him to miscontrol the ball when it reaches him.

He tried some tricks last night when they clearly were not on. He needs to vary them.

His use of the ball was frustrating at times. Early in the second half Cisse had a chance to get in behind Gallas as Liverpool broke down the field, only for Garcia to play a sloppy ball to Cisse, which, although Cisse got hold of it, the pass had been over hit and allowed Gallas to recover and get goalside of Cisse.

Garcia is best in the hole, as he cannot play wide and he did his best work when he sat off the shoulder of Crouch in the second half.

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:15 pm

I know the pass you're referring to and i disagree. Cisse didn't read it, make the correct run or take a good touch. Luis Garcia for me was along with Sami and Xabi our best player last night.

by **JC_81** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:09 pm

stu_the_red wrote:I know the pass you're referring to and i disagree. Cisse didn't read it, make the correct run or take a good touch. Luis Garcia for me was along with Sami and Xabi our best player last night.

I'd agree with that, those 3 along with Hamann were our best players last night.

Garcia did well, Sami was pretty solid and won everything in the air, something he doesn't get nearly enough credit for. And Alonso, what can you say? Where are the people that only last week were saying he couldn't tackle? Eat humble pie lads. He won more tackles than the whole Chelsea midfield put together.

Hamann did a good job too, stuck in a good few tackles, definitely our most reliable player imo, never spectacular, never poor. You know what you're getting every time.

by **dward** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:40 pm

all I can say is.....BRING ON PART 2!!!!!!!!!!! :buttrock

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:35 pm

The case for the defence as far as Traore is concerned obviously lies with me again. Sean Wright-Phillips in the air? The kids a talented player with great spring, not unlike his stepdad in that respect TBH. Is Djimi the first taller player he's beaten in the air? Is he buggery and he won't be the last either.
Much more worrying were the couple of occasions in the second half where long crossfield balls which should have been cut out by the bigman were missed as he got under the flight. Am I the only one however who thinks that in a one on one where the winger has it at his feet he is solid as a rock? He is quick, gangly and awkward and I venture if you were to ask Robben and Duff who they least like playing against, then Djimi would be near the top of the list.
Distribution? Absolutely terrible, always has been so don't give the fecker the ball then. It just seems strange to me that the guy can play against the football machine that is Chelsea with two sh!te hot wingers, as full-back in a back four that doesn't even concede chances against them never mind goals and he's useless?
If you're looking for Ashley Cole or Lizarazu you're going to be very disappointed. If you want a bloke who gives his all and doesn't let much get past him then Traore is your fella. Jeez, if he was our biggest problem last night then we really haven't got any worries.
I know plenty of guys on here much prefer Warnock to Traore. FWIW I prefer the big fella against a good winger but it's irrelavent really. Even if Warnock does turn out to be the better bet, it doesn't necessarily follow that Traore is useless.

by **andy_g** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:02 pm

you're obviously on the same wavelength as benitez there bigmick (unless you are benitez - which i'm beginning to suspect), maybe he sees the same positives as you do. everybody knows that djimi can make great recovering tackles and as you say can be hard to get past. so far so good on his scorecard then, so lets bring in the tests for arial ability, positioning, judging the flight of the ball, and distribution. suddenly he doesn't look so tasty.

i won't disagree with the fact that the most important part of being a defender is to stop the other guy getting past you and for that djimi can normally do a job - he did it pretty well last night. (did he even have a dig at robben to get him limping off?). but look at the other well regarded left backs in todays game - ashley cole, asier del horno, paulo maldini, gabriel heinze, etc etc - they'll stop the guy getting past them but they'll also launch the team back into attack and maybe set a goal up or nick one themselves (another assist for maldini last night in fact).

bless him, but djimi gives us none of this. if we really want to move forward as a club we need a left back who is the full package. i'm not totally convinced by warnock yet but he has potential and is a more complete player than our djimi.

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:12 pm

I share you're lack of conviction with Warnock Andy although he, despite being 23 is a player who looks like he will improve and certainly interms of football ability is in a different stratosphere to dear old Djimi. Djimi probably aint gonna get no better to tell you the truth but I have more than a sneaking suspicion, and I suspect that Rafa shares this, that one day he will make a good stopper centre-half. At the very least he makes an excellent squaddie as he can play all accross the back and Rafa's decision not to offload him to Everton for 1.5 million (which I disagreed with at the time) is now looking inspired to me.

by **JC_81** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:30 pm

bigmick wrote:Distribution? Absolutely terrible, always has been so don't give the fecker the ball then.

I see where you're coming from with your defence of Traore bigmick, but I just don't rate the guy.

I just don't think you can ignore his poor distribution. You can't just say don't give him the ball, because the reality is that in modern football defenders aren't just for defending, you need fullbacks who are at least competent with the ball at their feet and comfortable in possession. Not being able to pass the ball is just not good enough from a fullback imo.

The most worrying thing about Traore though is how unsettling it must be for team-mates around him. His positional play is atrocious. His last ditch tackles might look good on tv, but let's ask ourselves why he has to make so many last ditch tackles, whereas Finnan on the other side of the field seems to stroll through games without having to make any. Why? Because Finnan knows his position inside-out and is very rarely caught out of position.

I'm firmly in the Warnock camp over this one. He's more assured on the ball and a good passer. He's also better at coming forward. His positioning is not yet completely sound either, but he's a converted midfielder and he looks to be getting to be a better left back every time I watch him.

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