Liverpool FC Forum

by **red till i die!!** » Fri May 28, 2010 2:29 am

no doubting mourinho is a top class manager whether you like him or not.
but imo he's at a club with a ruthless history with managers and they are not a club that afford a luxury of time and patience.
they spent like no other last year and still they couldnt manage to break barca's reign in la liga or indeed bring any other silverware to the bernabeu.
its more a case of deliver or else!!

by **Kharhaz** » Fri May 28, 2010 3:39 am

Penguins wrote:In the meantime Rafa has been to 2 finals with maybe 20% of the funding as Mourinho, but please don't take of your blinkers for that....

Your right. Lets not.

Clubs like chelsea and man city are having to reach the likes of Liverpool by throwing money at position we are in. Look at Torres, we will attract players like him as reputation plays a big part. Yes there are good players out there who will accept the money, lets look at Kaka. Did money play a part? of course not, it appeals to the one who are making the most of what is given to them, in Torres' case we know he is the best, everyone else knows he is the best, even Torres knows he is the best. But to him its not a question of money, it a question of achievement.

So lets now look at Rafa. Is Rafa the best manager for the job? Does Rafa have the club and the success of the club closest to his heart? The contract Rafa signed, was that for the better of the club? Or indeed the fact he kept his key players from signing there contracts until he signed his?

People talk about money, so lets talk about it. Rafa has signed a ludicrous contract, he is made. And yet in the same breath the same people complain about the owners. They complain about the lack of money, and yet nothing is mentioned about how Rafa is given the most control of a club. How Rafas job could be placed in Fort Knox and it still wouldnt be as safe as it is now. How we simply couldnt afford to sack Rafa.

But hell....lets not take off our blinkers in case we see the whole picture.

by **Rush Job** » Fri May 28, 2010 5:23 am

shawnk wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
Penguins wrote:
Redman in wales wrote:
Owzat wrote:INTER MILAN - ..... Sure he won the European Cup, again more credit for that than winning the league but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final

most of your post I can agree with , but you really haven't given enough credit here.

you say "but again they only beat Bayern Munich in the final"

they also beat Barcelona in the Semi final.

they also beat Chelsea in the last 16.

And how did they beat Barca?
One offside goal at home and played with 9 defensemen away.
Brilliant!

And he away 30+ million just in one summer on Quaresma and Mancini. But who cares....

He won the treble

Any manager who can beat the current Barcelona team over two matches is a great manager. Simple as that really irregardless of how much money you have (e.g. Real Madrid).

Bet most of the fans here would be saying differently if he has the look of Rafa with the same achievement?

It was ugly as fk though you must admit, inter made something like 25 passes second half, barca had over 200.
First half was much the same,yet there are people bemoaning the boring footy of rafa and their ulternative is moureen?

Its not just the boring footy though these people also find rafa stubborn and arrogant, their alternative....... jose mourinho?

Fk off jose mourinho! If we were still in the cl we`d tear you lot a new un.

by **Zidane** » Fri May 28, 2010 5:24 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Penguins wrote:In the meantime Rafa has been to 2 finals with maybe 20% of the funding as Mourinho, but please don't take of your blinkers for that....

Your right. Lets not.

Clubs like chelsea and man city are having to reach the likes of Liverpool by throwing money at position we are in. Look at Torres, we will attract players like him as reputation plays a big part. Yes there are good players out there who will accept the money, lets look at Kaka. Did money play a part? of course not, it appeals to the one who are making the most of what is given to them, in Torres' case we know he is the best, everyone else knows he is the best, even Torres knows he is the best. But to him its not a question of money, it a question of achievement.

So lets now look at Rafa. Is Rafa the best manager for the job? Does Rafa have the club and the success of the club closest to his heart? The contract Rafa signed, was that for the better of the club? Or indeed the fact he kept his key players from signing there contracts until he signed his?

People talk about money, so lets talk about it. Rafa has signed a ludicrous contract, he is made. And yet in the same breath the same people complain about the owners. They complain about the lack of money, and yet nothing is mentioned about how Rafa is given the most control of a club. How Rafas job could be placed in Fort Knox and it still wouldnt be as safe as it is now. How we simply couldnt afford to sack Rafa.

But hell....lets not take off our blinkers in case we see the whole picture.

I'd like to know how much other top managers get paid in comparison to Rafa, does anyone know? Just wondering not tryin to prove anything.

by **Tricky Dicky** » Fri May 28, 2010 5:26 am

Rush Job wrote:
shawnk wrote:Any manager who can beat the current Barcelona team over two matches is a great manager. Simple as that really irregardless of how much money you have (e.g. Real Madrid).

Bet most of the fans here would be saying differently if he has the look of Rafa with the same achievement?

It was ugly as fk though you must admit, inter made something like 25 passes second half, barca had over 200.
First half was much the same,yet there are people bemoaning the boring footy of rafa and their ulternative is moureen?
Its not just the boring footy though these people also find rafa stubborn and arrogant, their alternative....... jose mourinho?

Fk off jose mourinho! If we were still in the cl we`d tear you lot a new un.

Perhaps if the "boring football of Rafa" had actually won us as many matches as the "boring football of Mourinho" people wouldn't be so quick to jump up and down.

by **Rush Job** » Fri May 28, 2010 5:41 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Penguins wrote:In the meantime Rafa has been to 2 finals with maybe 20% of the funding as Mourinho, but please don't take of your blinkers for that....

Your right. Lets not.

Clubs like chelsea and man city are having to reach the likes of Liverpool by throwing money at position we are in. Look at Torres, we will attract players like him as reputation plays a big part. Yes there are good players out there who will accept the money, lets look at Kaka. Did money play a part? of course not, it appeals to the one who are making the most of what is given to them, in Torres' case we know he is the best, everyone else knows he is the best, even Torres knows he is the best. But to him its not a question of money, it a question of achievement.

So lets now look at Rafa. Is Rafa the best manager for the job? Does Rafa have the club and the success of the club closest to his heart? The contract Rafa signed, was that for the better of the club? Or indeed the fact he kept his key players from signing there contracts until he signed his?

People talk about money, so lets talk about it. Rafa has signed a ludicrous contract, he is made. And yet in the same breath the same people complain about the owners. They complain about the lack of money, and yet nothing is mentioned about how Rafa is given the most control of a club. How Rafas job could be placed in Fort Knox and it still wouldnt be as safe as it is now. How we simply couldnt afford to sack Rafa.

But hell....lets not take off our blinkers in case we see the whole picture.

Its rafa agents job to get his client the best possible deal, guns were not held to heads and not every fan regrets rafa getting a new deal.
Its not rafas fault the club would have to fork out to sack him, and its not rafas fault we are to skint to because the club has been saddled with hundreds of million pounds worth of debt.
Do you think we would get a hiddink or a mourinho on a lesser deal? Its not like he`s got the best deal in football management, its just a stupid deal to hand out when your skint but thats our owners fault not rafas. Has anyone, anywhere ever turned down a contract because it seems your owners value you highly enough to give you a good deal?
All this holding the club to ransom sh!te is just that, of the highest order.

by **Rush Job** » Fri May 28, 2010 5:43 am

Perhaps if the "boring football of Rafa" had actually won us as many matches as the "boring football of Mourinho" people wouldn't be so quick to jump up and down.

So boring footy is ok as long as your winning?
You havent been around very long have ya.

Not if your name is rafa benitez

by **shawnk** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:33 am

red till i die!! wrote:no doubting mourinho is a top class manager whether you like him or not.
but imo he's at a club with a ruthless history with managers and they are not a club that afford a luxury of time and patience.
they spent like no other last year and still they couldnt manage to break barca's reign in la liga or indeed bring any other silverware to the bernabeu.
its more a case of deliver or else!!

You have a good point there. Although clubs that Jose joined pays handsomely but the expectation from them is high as well. Just look at the latest exit of the Real Madrid manager. They maybe giving you the funds but if you don't produce any result, you'll just have to go.

Think Rafa can join any of these rich clubs that allows him to buy any great players and win something with them like a treble (not even talking about some coca cola European club trophy)? I doubt he can do it the way Jose did.

BTW I have always admire Jose as a great football manager even before his treble this season.

EDIT: And I said the above not because I care about my online reputation. I just think that result don't lie and I think there's a lot of bias :censored:

going around.

by **shawnk** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:35 am

Rush Job wrote:So boring footy is ok as long as your winning?
You havent been around very long have ya.
Not if your name is rafa benitez

Good point but it's blardy worse if we still lose when playing bloody football eh :eyebrow

Yes, I want Liverpool to win or get results in whatever way.

by **Owzat** » Sat May 29, 2010 8:04 am

Boring football is never people's first choice, but effective yet not terribly entertaining football is good ONLY IF you win a trophy, or more precisely the league title.

To play boring football and not win things is unforgivable, to play boring football to finish fourth is perhaps the worst offence - well maybe playing boring football and NOT finishing fourth caps it off, take a bow Rafa. You can understand the teams who fear relegation, know a lot of sides are as good if not better than them, and know they need to scrap (literally) for every point, playing dire, defensive and sometimes dirty football to gain placings in the table, but it shouldn't be the case at a club whose squad cost £141m+

I know some fans will claim they'd rather play a pretty passing game with no end product than playing boring fare, that is a good defence for getting relegated, but I'm sure they'd rather stay up or win a trophy if they could tell the truth.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:08 pm

Can't quite believe no-one has started this topic yet, apologies if it's in another section of the forum. Mind you, bit dumb if it is.

A real tough one this because we don't know (for certain) if Gerrard, Torres and Masch will be sold off. Therefore we (and he) don't know what the new manager will be walking into. Anyways here are the viable candidates as I see them in the order I would like to see them.

1/ Louis Van Gaal - I see the bookies have him at 25/1 at the moment. The exact opposite to Rafa and Houllier before him. Far more likely to bring a style of football in the Evans mould. Has been there and done it all over Europe but surprisingly has never managed in England. Big name in football and is personable and charismatic as far as I can tell. The players would like him. I believe Gerrard AND Torres would shelve any ideas of leaving if we could appoint someone like Van Gaal. Don't know how long he is contracted to Munich or whether he'd be interested in the job. It's a long shot I guess but i'd love to see some sexy football back at Anfield next season.

2/ Guus Hiddink - I'd put him at number 1 but he's a real long shot because he has signed a deal to manage the Turkish national side and is rumoured to have just turned down the Inter Milan job. Probably no chance but we can all dream.

3/ Roy Hodgson - Good track record over the years. Did well to get the Swiss to Euro 96 and is held in high regard at Inter where he won a Cup Winners Cup in the 90's. Has done a fantastic job with Fulham the past 18 months. His players seem to like him and his teams play attractive football. If you'd mentioned his name in connection with the LFC job 12 months everyone would have said you were crazy but football is a 'funny old game'.

4/ Martin O'neil - Doesn't seem to be very popular on here. Quite a few are bitter about how he conducted himself during our pursuit of Gareth Barry but we may well be needing that kind of attitude at Liverpool in the very near future. Also gets labeled as a long ball merchant but i think that is harsh and would point out we haven't played truly attractive football on a regular basis since Roy Evans was LFC manager. I've followed O'neil's career pretty closely ever since he achieved 3 promotions with Wycombe (starting in the conference) in the early 90s. We need someone with a bit of back bone who can do less with more it seems, well this guy won two League Cups with lowly Leicester and had them finishing in the top 10 on a regular basis. I won't ask where they are now. We could do a lot worse.

Whatever happens it needs to happen QUICKLY.

PS. If anyone mentions Alex McLeish or Mark Hughes (even in jest) they should be banned instantly.

by **Greavesie** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:13 pm

Marcelo Lippi - lots of league titles and a world cup, plus a sh!tload of experince. Emphasise unity in his approach. I think he could bring the lads together and do a good job. A few have already touted him and I'm inclined to agree with them to be honest. He's a good coach and free after the WC so I'd fancy our chances of a canny coup with this guy

I like the thought of Van Gaal as well Scott so either of them two would be fine

I also like Laurent Blanc but he's probably a bit too inexperienced and was a Mmanc so I dunno how we'd take to him. I like him tho FWIW

It all boils down to money here I reckon - I think we're going to go British but I'm not even going to discuss them

by **Reg** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:13 pm

Capello has the perfect profile.

I would have said Morris but in retrospect if Capello is shakey in the England job, snap him up asap. He would relish the challenge I'm sure.

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:14 pm

Please don't take this the wrong way Scott , but for the first time since i can remember i'm not in the slightest interested mate . Couldn't give two fecks who are manager is next year ,because we are fecked as a club whoever it is . Soz mate .

by **tubby** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:18 pm

I actually started one here in general but I guess mods can just merge them...

http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=27185

It's all well and good saying it needs to happen quickly but the first question anyone is going to ask is "how much do I have to spend?"

And to be honest unless you have been living on the moon for the last few years you will be fully aware of how these 2 yanks like to play. So straight off the bat id say no top manager would even touch us with a bargepole... until the ownership situation changes or somehow they manage to promise significant funds.

IMO We will not go for a top tier manager as we need to lower the target for the next few years. Probably a mid table team type manager is where we should be looking as lets face it we are no longer a top 4 team. Even MON would probably say no.

As Igor says though no one is really interested. Until those 2 are out we are well and truley :censored:

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