Liverpool FC Forum

[Benny The Noon]

...............moving on

If Rafa is here next year there is a very real chance Torres and Gerrard will leave this summer.

Man City is said to have put in a offer for him and in truth will pay anything to have him and they also have eyes on Gerrard.

if Rafa dont walk to his new job then it should be made clear to the two players Rafa will not be here next year so they stay. both are unhappy in the way the club is heading.

Is this conjecture or have you heard something mate ?

sort of conjecture mate but it has been spoken about in the media for sometime, they say Gerrard needs to win the prem as he dont have long left and he not going to win that with Rafa at the club.

it is only us (or should say some) liverpool fans that think Rafa is anything other than a european manager, most think he was never going to make it in the prem due to his lack of understanding of what is needed to win it, and what sort of team neded to be built, he got close to having that team but then sold it.

Sort of conjecture means he has found more made up bullsh.it from his media buddies


If it was so true then how come it hasnt been printed ? If the players really did want the manager to leave (Torres/Gerrard) then surely they would of said something to the press cause then there would be no comeback in libel terms - but because they havent printed anything its because its all bullsh.it and rumours once again for you .

Come up with some sort of proof on any of your claims .

[Ben Patrick]

typical lakes cow dung

[Fauxy]

Well lets be realistic... Torres and Gerrard wont want to be playing in a team that is playing in the Europa league and struggling for a champions league spot. So although what lakes has said may have been made up, it isnt all that far from the truth because players like these two are going to want to win things.

I think that if Rafa left then it would make a positive impact on these two staying because its pretty clear that he has nearly lost the support of the players and he is gradually losing the support of the fans.

[Benny The Noon]

Even if Rafa left we would still be playing Europa League next season (if we dont get 4th this season )

[account deleted by request]

Even if Rafa left we would still be playing Europa League next season (if we dont get 4th this season )

So you think we should sack Rafa now, and get Dalglish in to make sure we get fourth...... spot on mate 

[Benny The Noon]

Even if Rafa left we would still be playing Europa League next season (if we dont get 4th this season )

So you think we should sack Rafa now, and get Dalglish in to make sure we get fourth...... spot on mate 

Nope - you know my feelings - i want Rafa to be given the chance to turn around this disappointing season .

And i still believe he will be given that chance .

[account deleted by request]

Even if Rafa left we would still be playing Europa League next season (if we dont get 4th this season )

So you think we should sack Rafa now, and get Dalglish in to make sure we get fourth...... spot on mate 

Nope - you know my feelings - i want Rafa to be given the chance to turn around this disappointing season .

And i still believe he will be given that chance .

I think he will be given the chance too mate......thats what worries me!

What I don't understand is why you think Rafa CAN turn things around, yet you don't believe that any another manager can ?

[Benny The Noon]

Even if Rafa left we would still be playing Europa League next season (if we dont get 4th this season )

So you think we should sack Rafa now, and get Dalglish in to make sure we get fourth...... spot on mate 

Nope - you know my feelings - i want Rafa to be given the chance to turn around this disappointing season .

And i still believe he will be given that chance .

I think he will be given the chance too mate......thats what worries me!

What I don't understand is why you think Rafa CAN turn things around, yet you don't believe that any another manager can ?

Because its Rafa's players mate - im pretty sure managers like capello,maureen ,hiddink can improve us - its not that i think they cant improve us (even though i dont believe they will win us the league in a short time) i dont believe we as a club can attract that sort of manager .

I believe Rafa can turn it around cause he has before .

03/04 we finished 35 points of the winners
04/05 - CL winners but in 5th place
05/06 - 3rd place - improvement in league
06/07 - went back a bit in league but imo was due to CL run to final
07/08 - improvement in league
08/09 - improvement once again in the league

So i believe at the very least next season we would get into the CL places and maybe challenge agaiin (if we keep the same squad) and add a few players .

[account deleted by request]

Because its Rafa's players mate - im pretty sure managers like capello,maureen ,hiddink can improve us - its not that i think they cant improve us (even though i dont believe they will win us the league in a short time) i dont believe we as a club can attract that sort of manager .

I believe Rafa can turn it around cause he has before .

03/04 we finished 35 points of the winners
04/05 - CL winners but in 5th place
05/06 - 3rd place - improvement in league
06/07 - went back a bit in league but imo was due to CL run to final
07/08 - improvement in league
08/09 - improvement once again in the league

So i believe at the very least next season we would get into the CL places and maybe challenge agaiin (if we keep the same squad) and add a few players .

The problem is the only way Rafa improved us after 2004/5 was by spending loads of money...... we don't have loads of money now.

03/04 We finished so badly because the players no longer believed in the manager

04/05 basically the same players won us the CL

05/06 Crouch, Reina and Sissoko were bought and improved us.

06/07  Bellamy, Pennant and Kuyt set us back

07/08 Torres.... would improve any side

08/09 Keane and Riera ..... Riera gave us some balance

09/10 We finished so badly because the players no longer believed in the manager and the bad buys of previous years finally caught up with him when we had no suitable replacement for injuries.e.g. Degan and Dossena meant Masch and Carra playing Right back and Insua having to play all season when he is clearly not ready.


With money tight and the players no longer believing in the manager, we need someone to inspire the players and do more with less.

Like with Houllier we will probably keep Rafa a season too long and pay a heavy price for it.

[Benny The Noon]

Because its Rafa's players mate - im pretty sure managers like capello,maureen ,hiddink can improve us - its not that i think they cant improve us (even though i dont believe they will win us the league in a short time) i dont believe we as a club can attract that sort of manager .

I believe Rafa can turn it around cause he has before .

03/04 we finished 35 points of the winners
04/05 - CL winners but in 5th place
05/06 - 3rd place - improvement in league
06/07 - went back a bit in league but imo was due to CL run to final
07/08 - improvement in league
08/09 - improvement once again in the league

So i believe at the very least next season we would get into the CL places and maybe challenge agaiin (if we keep the same squad) and add a few players .

The problem is the only way Rafa improved us after 2004/5 was by spending loads of money...... we don't have loads of money now.

03/04 We finished so badly because the players no longer believed in the manager

04/05 basically the same players won us the CL

05/06 Crouch, Reina and Sissoko were bought and improved us.

06/07  Bellamy, Pennant and Kuyt set us back

07/08 Torres.... would improve any side

08/09 Keane and Riera ..... Riera gave us some balance

09/10 We finished so badly because the players no longer believed in the manager and the bad buys of previous years finally caught up with him when we had no suitable replacement for injuries.e.g. Degan and Dossena meant Masch and Carra playing Right back and Insua having to play all season when he is clearly not ready.


With money tight and the players no longer believing in the manager, we need someone to inspire the players and do more with less.

Like with Houllier we will probably keep Rafa a season too long and pay a heavy price for it.

But you have no idea the players dont believe in the manager

The 03/04 team was more than not believing in the manager it was also down to the fact we had a lot of poor players in the team - a damn sight more than we have currently - im guessing we had 4 very good players with only gerrard being world class - players like sami,carra were very good plus owen and he is a different story .

Rafas buys that summer were also crucial in the CL win - players like Garcia and Xabi were crucial in winning the thing .

You believe we went backwards when we bought Bellamy etc but for me it was the run in the cl to the final . We played weaker line ups to concentrate on the CL that season and results faded in the prem . The year before we went out of the CL early so concentrated more on the league hence the better result in that comp.

Yes players being brought in will also improve us . This year it hasnt worked with both major players that have been brought in spending more time on the treatment table as opposed to the pitch . Yep mistakes have been made allround but we need to turn them around - Rafa has already secured a striker who i believe to be pretty damn good and will improve us up front and give us options without torres .

[Emerald Red]

Well lets be realistic... Torres and Gerrard wont want to be playing in a team that is playing in the Europa league and struggling for a champions league spot. So although what lakes has said may have been made up, it isnt all that far from the truth because players like these two are going to want to win things.

I think that if Rafa left then it would make a positive impact on these two staying because its pretty clear that he has nearly lost the support of the players and he is gradually losing the support of the fans.

Well, that would depend on the said players' aspirations, wouldn't it? Does anyone really know what these are? What trophies they deem good enough? Gerrard has won virtually everything bar the EPL for Liverpool. It was under Benitez that he landed arguably his dream final/finals and won one of them. He clearly believed after 07' that "we'll play in another one of these big finals", so whether or not he still has that belief is a matter of pure speculation, or for some a matter of fact that he's given up on that. Now, in my own personal opinion, Gerrard wants the EPL and the EPL only. I don't think it would phase him that much to be playing in the Europa league for a season if it meant that it'll be an all out assault at landing the one we all desire. He'll stay, because who else is he going to go to to win the league with in the Premiership? Chelsea? At this stage in his career? Surely he wants to be remembered as a Liverpool faithful and not a Judas c*nt like Owen. United? NO! Arsenal? Do they have 30 million? No. City? Who the f*ck are they? No. Gerrard stays here, or in his final season or so, goes to Spain or Italy. That's it.

Torres is a different matter. He's a foreigner and wants to win things with us. It was Rafa that brought him here and turned him into the player he is now. He has also been one of the most outspoken players for the need for investment into the side. If we don't get that in the summer and he decides that we aren't going anywhere, then people will point fingers, but some will be pointing them in the wrong direction if his proclivities are anything to judge. Torres is too big of a player for this club to lose in it's current state. In the Summer, when clubs start throwing 60-80 million record fees for him at us, it might be too much for a different manager to resist, or worse, the Yanks. Benitez has warded off these massive fees before and kept the player. Something the man gets no recognition for whatsoever. People are saying that if Rafa stays, Torres leaves. I think they are wrong. I think if Rafa stays, Torres stays and Gerrard likewise.

[account deleted by request]

But you have no idea the players dont believe in the manager 

   

The 03/04 team was more than not believing in the manager it was also down to the fact we had a lot of poor players in the team

12 of those "poor players" won the CL final the following season

Rafas buys that summer were also crucial in the CL win - players like Garcia and Xabi were crucial in winning the thing .

Xabi played in less than half of our CL games that season mate.

You believe we went backwards when we bought Bellamy etc but for me it was the run in the cl to the final . We played weaker line ups to concentrate on the CL that season and results faded in the prem . The year before we went out of the CL early so concentrated more on the league hence the better result in that comp.

Yeah just like this season 

As I have said before Rafa has NEVER won anything with HIS team. At Valencia the players were already there and had just reached the CL final two years on the trot, and at Liverpool back when we won things, the vast majority of the players were already at the club.

[NANNY RED]

My feeling on that one is that a majority of the blame can be placed at Rafa's door and that it's time for him to go...

I agree Bob, but its still sad to see mate. As long as reasonably well balanced posters like yourself were still holding out for Rafa, it allowed me a faint hope that I was totally wrong and that he maybe just needed more time than I was willing to give him. Now you have come over to the darkside ......all such hope is gone

So what are yeh trying to say then is im not well balanced . Well fecking thanks very much 

[account deleted by request]

My feeling on that one is that a majority of the blame can be placed at Rafa's door and that it's time for him to go...

I agree Bob, but its still sad to see mate. As long as reasonably well balanced posters like yourself were still holding out for Rafa, it allowed me a faint hope that I was totally wrong and that he maybe just needed more time than I was willing to give him. Now you have come over to the darkside ......all such hope is gone

So what are yeh trying to say then is im not well balanced . Well fecking thanks very much 

I think you just let your heart rule your head Nanny. You know better but just can't bear to admit it yet. Or maybe its not over till you start singing ? 

[bigmick]

I think we'll keep Rafa on, just like the Rafaplogists want, but it will be a disaster on many levels. Firstly, from a football point of view it can't and won't work because he is a busted flush. My guess is next season will mirror this one, both in terms of the results and the excuses.

The really ironic thing about the Rafapologists stance of course is that if you were to ask Hicks and Gillette what would be their absolutely ideal scenario, they'd most likely keep Benitez in charge as well. Why? Well firstly they avoid having to dip into their trousers for any compensation payments. Keep him on and it also saves having to try and recruit a new manager, having to pay severence potentially for HIS contract, perhaps having to pay an increased salary. Almost certainly if they pull the trigger on Benitez they would have to hand any new manager at least some transfer budget, just to keep the fans reasonably on side. If they took on an outspoken manager (a Mourinho for instance) they would risk him downing tools and fecking off if he got some of his promises broken, as well as having to deal with the inevitable increased ambition from most fans (not everyone thinks fighting for fourth with Man City, Spurs, Villa and Birmingham is the best we can do).

As it is, they leave Benitez in charge and it kills a multitude of birds with one stone. Firstly it deflects criticism from them. Secondly, they can tell Benitez he's getting feck all to spend and there's no danger of him saying feck all, because he wants to keep his big fat contract. Thirdly, if we don't win feck all yet again, fans are getting accustomed to it now and consider any sort of success, even in the European Copa Cup as something of a bonus. Fourthly, if we do get into Europe by hook or by crook, there's a good chance that Benitez won't waste time and energy trying to win the inwinnable battle in the league, he'll rest our best players and make sure we progress as far as possible in the cash laden European stakes. He'll also agree without comment to go play in Timbuktu in pre season, long as he keeps his contract. Also, as an added bonus, he's fecked up so often with big money transfers that pretty much nobody could blame the owners for not giving him the price of a newspaper to spend. You also by keeping Benitez give the business significant and obvious potential upside for any purchaser. Anyone with any sense will know that if they get shut they could potentially raise the value of the club significantly. It is only potential, but it's a carrot for a buyer anyway.

Ask yourself, if you were Hicks or Gillette and your motivation was the same as theirs, would you get rid of Benitez? Would you feck, you'd give him an extended contract if you had any sense.