Liverpool FC Forum

[Lando_Griffin]

last season was bad business with Robbie Keane... however Riera was a good buy and if I'm not wrong was 8 millions. One of the reasons we did well was becasue Riera brought much needed balance to the team. As for Dossena he had looked promising but who would've thought he would turn out to be such a dross.

I think Riera was 8 million Magus, I was giving credit to Rafa for him being a good buy by estimating his current value at 11 million or so. He did bring balance, and despite deep reservations from people like me is a good player and a good buy.

As for Dossena, and your "who would have thought it" line, well hopefully the manager, before he shelled out 7 million quid for him is the answer. That's kind of what he gets paid for. Lets not forget either, that's seven million quid in transfer terms as well, then theres his contract, signing on fee and the rest. IMHO he is an absolutely terrible buy, truly awful and probably Rafa's worst. As a 7 million pound player, he'll be 60-70 grand a week over four years (minimum 12 million quid) plus he'll have got a big signing on fee. When you put those numbers together it's an eye watering amount of money, and when you see him play it's not cutting onions eye watering, it's enough to make you blub.

Even Degen, who I read somewhere we have left out of the 28 man Champions League squad. He'll be on 30-40 grand a week for a 3 or 4 year contract (best case scenario about 5 million quid) and he's perpetually injured, and when he's not, useless. He probably got a signing on fee as well, so in all probability we've spent/spunked 7 million quid in his direction as well. He's another that whatever the duration of his contract is, nobody will buy him and he won't leave, simply because his contract is so lucrative.   

As for Keane, well. Best I not get started there.


Whichever way you look at it, we laid out in transfer fees alone around 40 million quid, and probably committed to 15 million pounds per season in wages over four seasons (another 60 million) and out of it, got a decent left midfielder.

This is where the discrepancy is with the old "but we haven't even spent money we've brought in" comes in with this Purslow fella. His argument it seems to me is that if you give Gerrard a 20K a week rise, that's a million quid per season x 4 so you've just spent 4 million. Ditto Torres and the new goalkeeper coach (and I'm on about the vehicle to carry them all around in, not the trainer), the money has to come from somewhere.


The trick is, signing players who you can move on if it goes pearshaped or they don't get in the team. Sissoko, Morientes and players of that ilk are no problem, but the truly terrible aquisitions are the ones that kill you. The Dossena's, the Babels, the Pennants, the Deggens and the like just suck blood out of the club with little or no return. Even the Keane's  of this world could have proven very expensive, had we not found somebody willing to give us 12 million back of the 20 million we had pledged, and then a calculator which told us that 20-12 was 1, we'd have been well fecked.

You can't help yourself, can you?

Simpleton.

BigMick's new home.

[bigmick]

Lando, when I buried the hatchet with you  a few weeks back and agreed to stop in your words "belittling you" on football threads, I meant it. I still mean it, life's too short and I'm not going to get drawn into an insult war with you, besides which I'm not sure I know how to post pictures up and stuff anyway.

If you are going to insist on making yourself look foolish though as you are here, there is really very little I can do about it. I know the mods will come along and "clean up the thread" which broadly it seems to me translates into removing your silliness AND any of my posts which you are responding to, but there must come a point surely where you think enough is enough?

Why not go at it from a football point of view. Which bit of the post don't you agree with? Is it Dossena who you think is a good player? Deggen? Keane? Don't you agree that they'll be earning the wages I've guessed at perhaps? Why not simply argue your point without having to resort to siliness?



This idea that because I don't agree with you then it naturally follows that I must be an Everton supporter is one of your weaker ones over the years. You're capable of better, and the moderators not for the first time will be doing you a favour when they delete it. You are making yourself look silly.

[maguskwt]

last season was bad business with Robbie Keane... however Riera was a good buy and if I'm not wrong was 8 millions. One of the reasons we did well was becasue Riera brought much needed balance to the team. As for Dossena he had looked promising but who would've thought he would turn out to be such a dross.

I think Riera was 8 million Magus, I was giving credit to Rafa for him being a good buy by estimating his current value at 11 million or so. He did bring balance, and despite deep reservations from people like me is a good player and a good buy.

As for Dossena, and your "who would have thought it" line, well hopefully the manager, before he shelled out 7 million quid for him is the answer. That's kind of what he gets paid for. Lets not forget either, that's seven million quid in transfer terms as well, then theres his contract, signing on fee and the rest. IMHO he is an absolutely terrible buy, truly awful and probably Rafa's worst. As a 7 million pound player, he'll be 60-70 grand a week over four years (minimum 12 million quid) plus he'll have got a big signing on fee. When you put those numbers together it's an eye watering amount of money, and when you see him play it's not cutting onions eye watering, it's enough to make you blub.

Even Degen, who I read somewhere we have left out of the 28 man Champions League squad. He'll be on 30-40 grand a week for a 3 or 4 year contract (best case scenario about 5 million quid) and he's perpetually injured, and when he's not, useless. He probably got a signing on fee as well, so in all probability we've spent/spunked 7 million quid in his direction as well. He's another that whatever the duration of his contract is, nobody will buy him and he won't leave, simply because his contract is so lucrative.   

As for Keane, well. Best I not get started there.


Whichever way you look at it, we laid out in transfer fees alone around 40 million quid, and probably committed to 15 million pounds per season in wages over four seasons (another 60 million) and out of it, got a decent left midfielder.

This is where the discrepancy is with the old "but we haven't even spent money we've brought in" comes in with this Purslow fella. His argument it seems to me is that if you give Gerrard a 20K a week rise, that's a million quid per season x 4 so you've just spent 4 million. Ditto Torres and the new goalkeeper coach (and I'm on about the vehicle to carry them all around in, not the trainer), the money has to come from somewhere.


The trick is, signing players who you can move on if it goes pearshaped or they don't get in the team. Sissoko, Morientes and players of that ilk are no problem, but the truly terrible aquisitions are the ones that kill you. The Dossena's, the Babels, the Pennants, the Deggens and the like just suck blood out of the club with little or no return. Even the Keane's  of this world could have proven very expensive, had we not found somebody willing to give us 12 million back of the 20 million we had pledged, and then a calculator which told us that 20-12 was 1, we'd have been well fecked.

fair enough that you're implying rafa is reaping the bad seeds that he sowed in babel, dossena, degen, etc. But we also agree that no manager gets it spot on. I feel that Rafa has managed to clear the mistakes that he made as quick and as much as he can. For example Keane again, even though we lost alot of money we didn't stick with him and waste the 20 millions + wages and I'm sure that with budget and squad strength permitting he would have done the same with Babel and Dossena. I'm not sure if there is anyone that is willing to take up Degen though  . Whatever the case is as a club with title ambitions the monetary support Rafa is getting from these owners is just not good enough...

[bigmick]

Totally agree Magus on the lack of monetry support, particularly recently. The most frustrating aspect of the whole scenario is that we really do/did look as if we were on the cusp of something. It seems that having spent a stack of money on the team in order to climb a mountain, we are going to risk failing through an unwillingness to stump up for an extra sherpa or two now we're near the summit.

That said, as some have pointed out there isn't an awful lot of spending going on by any of the big four, so providing Aquilani is a decent buy we should still be able to compete OK. Obviously you'd expect Man City will at the very least close the gap (they'd expect it themselves given what they've spent) and it's begining to look like not for the first time Redknapp is doing a good job, so Spurs will compete harder.

The Mancs and Arsenal are both hugely in transfer spend credit this Summer though, and with Chelsea having bought only Zhirkov it would be hard to argue that they're "buying the thing" either.

All that said though, I do share peoples frustration on the seemingly sudden tightening of the purse strings. If we take the required leap of faith to assume aquilani will come near to replacing Alonso, I would have thought the signings of say Carlos Tevez and Mathew Upson would have made us solid title favourites. It remains to be seen whether we can still do it without the financial push which while not quite being "needed", would have been nice.

[Lando_Griffin]

Lando, when I buried the hatchet with you  a few weeks back and agreed to stop in your words "belittling you" on football threads, I meant it. I still mean it, life's too short and I'm not going to get drawn into an insult war with you, besides which I'm not sure I know how to post pictures up and stuff anyway.

If you are going to insist on making yourself look foolish though as you are here, there is really very little I can do about it. I know the mods will come along and "clean up the thread" which broadly it seems to me translates into removing your silliness AND any of my posts which you are responding to, but there must come a point surely where you think enough is enough?

Why not go at it from a football point of view. Which bit of the post don't you agree with? Is it Dossena who you think is a good player? Deggen? Keane? Don't you agree that they'll be earning the wages I've guessed at perhaps? Why not simply argue your point without having to resort to siliness?



This idea that because I don't agree with you then it naturally follows that I must be an Everton supporter is one of your weaker ones over the years. You're capable of better, and the moderators not for the first time will be doing you a favour when they delete it. You are making yourself look silly.

I'll respond via PM as there's no-way I'm getting banned for you.

[bigmick]

Ah well, I recieved the PM . Suffice to say negotiations have reached a bit of an impasse it seems .


I'll respond here Lando NOT via PM thanks. Let it go fella, let it go.

[Lando_Griffin]

Ah well, I recieved the PM . Suffice to say negotiations have reached a bit of an impasse it seems .


I'll respond here Lando NOT via PM thanks. Let it go fella, let it go.

Whatever you say, big man... 

[bigmick]

Look Lando, in response to one of the things you said in the PM, I'm going to prove you wrong. I'm going to do something for YOU here and now. I'll feck off for a wee while, certainly a few weeks but maybe a bit longer, and in the meantime you can chill out a bit.

I was planning on having a break anyway, and now's as good a time as any.

I meant what I said about moving on though, you should and lifes too short. You take it easy big fella, till next time, Mick.


NB I will still stick me team in the last man standing though, I do like that.

[Lando_Griffin]

Look Lando, in response to one of the things you said in the PM, I'm going to prove you wrong. I'm going to do something for YOU here and now. I'll feck off for a wee while, certainly a few weeks but maybe a bit longer, and in the meantime you can chill out a bit.

I was planning on having a break anyway, and now's as good a time as any.

I meant what I said about moving on though, you should and lifes too short. You take it easy big fella, till next time, Mick.


NB I will still stick me team in the last man standing though, I do like that.

Don't be gone too long - sh*t like this livens the place up.

[Owzat]

Funnily enough I was suggesting reasons we might not be the ones to finish outside the top four on another forum. We have finished top four in 12 of the last 15 seasons, while other non 'big four' teams have made strong starts there was solace to be had with a few in terms of their corresponding results last season.

spudz - have started with 100% from their first four games, but in corresponding fixtures last season they beat Hull, us and whoever else it was they've played.

citeh - have improved most, but having finished 22 points outside the top four had the most scope for improvement.

Chelsea - haven't played anyone yet and are a top four side anyhoo.

mancs - have been unimpressive bar a massive scoreline win over Wigan, losing to Burnley goes down as probably biggest shock of the Premiership ever - reigning Champions beaten by newly promoted Burnley in their first venture into the Premiership. It ranks up there with wins by promoted sides
at old twatford for Derby in 96/97 and boro in 98/99 - it was Derby's first Premiership excursion but they had previously been in the top flight only in 90/91 compared to Burnley's previous top flight season of 75/76. *

Stoke are up there above us, but with their away form and having played only Sunderland and Burnley at home I don't think they will stay around up there long. The only decent team they've played stuffed them 4-0 at Anfield. villa


*OMENS?

Last time Burnley were in the top flight, so too were Birmingham and Wolves. That season, 1975/76, Liverpool won the league having finished 2nd the previous season. As Burnley haven't been in the top flight since, that is the last time all three appeared in the top flight together................................

[account deleted by request]

Look Lando, in response to one of the things you said in the PM, I'm going to prove you wrong. I'm going to do something for YOU here and now. I'll feck off for a wee while, certainly a few weeks but maybe a bit longer, and in the meantime you can chill out a bit.

I was planning on having a break anyway, and now's as good a time as any.

I meant what I said about moving on though, you should and lifes too short. You take it easy big fella, till next time, Mick.


NB I will still stick me team in the last man standing though, I do like that.

Don't be gone too long - sh*t like this livens the place up.

No it doesn't, all it does is prevent the people who WANT to discuss football from discussing it for a while.

[crazyhorse]

At the end of this season is the world cup... Does anyone think, as I do very slightly that the purse strings have been held back so that some signings can be made on the back of the tournament?

A bit out there I know, but with the crazy logic of football this kinds of adds up!

[account deleted by request]

last season was bad business with Robbie Keane... however Riera was a good buy and if I'm not wrong was 8 millions. One of the reasons we did well was becasue Riera brought much needed balance to the team. As for Dossena he had looked promising but who would've thought he would turn out to be such a dross.

I think Riera was 8 million Magus, I was giving credit to Rafa for him being a good buy by estimating his current value at 11 million or so. He did bring balance, and despite deep reservations from people like me is a good player and a good buy.

As for Dossena, and your "who would have thought it" line, well hopefully the manager, before he shelled out 7 million quid for him is the answer. That's kind of what he gets paid for. Lets not forget either, that's seven million quid in transfer terms as well, then theres his contract, signing on fee and the rest. IMHO he is an absolutely terrible buy, truly awful and probably Rafa's worst. As a 7 million pound player, he'll be 60-70 grand a week over four years (minimum 12 million quid) plus he'll have got a big signing on fee. When you put those numbers together it's an eye watering amount of money, and when you see him play it's not cutting onions eye watering, it's enough to make you blub.

Even Degen, who I read somewhere we have left out of the 28 man Champions League squad. He'll be on 30-40 grand a week for a 3 or 4 year contract (best case scenario about 5 million quid) and he's perpetually injured, and when he's not, useless. He probably got a signing on fee as well, so in all probability we've spent/spunked 7 million quid in his direction as well. He's another that whatever the duration of his contract is, nobody will buy him and he won't leave, simply because his contract is so lucrative.   

As for Keane, well. Best I not get started there.


Whichever way you look at it, we laid out in transfer fees alone around 40 million quid, and probably committed to 15 million pounds per season in wages over four seasons (another 60 million) and out of it, got a decent left midfielder.

This is where the discrepancy is with the old "but we haven't even spent money we've brought in" comes in with this Purslow fella. His argument it seems to me is that if you give Gerrard a 20K a week rise, that's a million quid per season x 4 so you've just spent 4 million. Ditto Torres and the new goalkeeper coach (and I'm on about the vehicle to carry them all around in, not the trainer), the money has to come from somewhere.


The trick is, signing players who you can move on if it goes pearshaped or they don't get in the team. Sissoko, Morientes and players of that ilk are no problem, but the truly terrible aquisitions are the ones that kill you. The Dossena's, the Babels, the Pennants, the Deggens and the like just suck blood out of the club with little or no return. Even the Keane's  of this world could have proven very expensive, had we not found somebody willing to give us 12 million back of the 20 million we had pledged, and then a calculator which told us that 20-12 was 1, we'd have been well fecked.

You are pretty much spot on with Degan, according to this mornings papers he is on £37k a week, received a £400k signing on fee, and Rafa tried to get shut but couldn't (who else is going to pay those sort of wages for an injury prone and not very good player? )

I really don't understand why we gave him a 4 year contract. Surely if a player has a history of injuries we should be a little more cautious, give them a two year deal with options to extend?

[account deleted by request]

At the end of this season is the world cup... Does anyone think, as I do very slightly that the purse strings have been held back so that some signings can be made on the back of the tournament?

A bit out there I know, but with the crazy logic of football this kinds of adds up!

Not really mate, I think the money just got pulled as soon as RBS said they wanted a lump sum off our owners.

I think up till then Rafa had (or thought he had) a budget and suddenly found he hadn't got a pot to p!ss in. Which is why there was a lot of talk of us after this player and that player and then ........silence. Of course we still splashed the cash on the greek warrior, but Rafa was supposed to sell a goalkeeper to pay for him...... sadly the deal to PSV couldn't be completed in time.

[kazza]

I'm going to do something for YOU here and now. I'll feck off for a wee while, certainly a few weeks but maybe a bit longer, and in the meantime you can chill out a bit.

But if we go on a winning run again and start playing well until you come back (like last year), you should do the honorable thing and fall on your sword. Think of the team.