Liverpool FC Forum

by **Stu_Murph** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:14 pm

The man is nothing but a spin doctor. He's a horrible, evil control freak who needs shooting in all honesty. The man has become a cancer in the club.

The row with Gerrard at half time at the reading game was poorly covered up in the press aswell.

Still he takes everyone for an idiot and most people still fall for it.

During his 5 years (or approaching) in charge, he's turned from a mild mannered, placid manager with a sense of himour and humility to an arrogant (something I'd know about

) know nothing stubborn fool who will eventually be messed up by the poor signings he has made.

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:17 pm

Sir Roger wrote:Yes, but lately under the circumstances, can it be said he's made mad subs or team selections? Not that I can think of. Most of the time this season, in fairness, his hand has been forced due to injuries. It's the fact that he replaces Aquilani with Gerrard and had two holding mids, and made one sub which was the most baffling thing he's done in a long time. You wouldn't have minded if we were winning 1-0 or something and got the points, but normally when Rafa makes a sub, they usually have a good impact. Against Wolves it was like he was all out of ideas, or that he felt that no sub would have mattered, or that he was just holding for the draw in the end. In either case, it was a poor display by him, and especially the players. If you're going to tell me that the players we had on the field weren't capable of stringing more that 5 passes together, I'd call you a liar.

Haha
Im not a liar
Whatever the players are capable of and what they actually do are two different things this season. Its been a complete shambles as far as Im concerned. It actually makes me ill to watch my club playing the type of sh'ite weve been serving up since august (with the exeption of one or two games).
I dont just think its down to one single reason. But the main single reason has got to be Rafa.[/quote]
No, I'm not actually saying you're a liar. Just making a bit of a point. It's obviously true that the players can play a bit and make more than 2 passes, for some some reason, they didn't do it at Wolves. You have to remember that Wolves also done Spurs away, so. Doesn't excuse that performance, though. I disagree the main reason we played like that was Benitez. Whoever he put out on that pitch should have been able to pass the ball on the deck. That's basically football 101, and for these players to resort to hoof the ball, is unnaceptable, and Rafa should have been fuming instead of saying it was an improvement.

by **Paul C** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:36 pm

Juventus President Jean-Claude Blanc Flies Out To Liverpool To Present Rafael Benitez With An Offer
Reports in Italy claim Blanc is in Liverpool trying to tempt Benitez...

By Salvatore Landolina
Jan 28, 2010 2:16:00 PM

Juventus president Jean-Claude Blanc is taking swift action to land Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez sooner rather than later, claims Il Corriere Dello Sport.

The report claims Blanc has changed his strategy in terms of replacing current coach Ciro Ferrara. He has flown to Liverpool in order to untangle the issues surrounding Benitez and convince him to leave Anfield with immediate effect.

Blanc will use the unease in Merseyside to help sway Benitez. Liverpool's financial woes, as well as uncertainties between the club's board and the Spaniard could help push the move in Juve's favour.

However, there are no guarantees that Blanc's enthusiasm will pay off. As a result, Juve have deployed a second plan that will see Roberto Bettega in charge of bringing a short-term replacement that will take the team forwards until the end of the season.

Alberto Zaccheroni and Claudio Gentile are the favourites for this option. Further developments are expected and an announcement could arrive by the end of Thursday night's Coppa Italia fixture.

by **Stu_Murph** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:47 pm

Owzat wrote:This board normally goes for "faithometers" which somewhat varied options that do and don't assess the manager. But how highly do you rate Rafa in terms of some of the more obvious 'skills', or things he needs to get right, we normally associate with managers?

SCALE 1-5

1= Poor
2 = Disappointing
3 = Average
4 = Good
5 = Excellent

SKILLS

SIGNINGS - taking into account money available, quality, quantity, whether they are bargains or rip-offs. Does he focus enough on signings for the here and now, or too much on future "stars" that may never come to fruition?

SQUAD - linked in with signings and tactics. Is the squad balanced? Is it strong?

TACTICS - does he get formations right? Do they suit the team we are playing against? Do you always rate the selections? Is he too defensive? Is he able to change them effectively to counter problems or if things aren't going as planned? Does zonal marking work? Do players get given long enough?

SUBSTITUTIONS - timing and effectiveness, choices coming on and going off.

PRIORITISATION - too much focus on the Champions League? Too little focus on the domestic cups? Does he think one game at a time or can you see a bit too much awareness of other forthcoming games? (in selections and substitutions)

MEDIA RELATIONS - how do you rate him on what he says to the media, does he say too much in "Rafa rants" ? Does he come out of interviews and conferences looking clever or stupid?

So scale is 1-5, the 'skills' are below with some of the subcategories included so you can copy and paste

SIGNINGS
Value
Quality
Balance (youth vs experience)
Longevity
SQUAD
Balance
Strength
TACTICS
Starting formation
Team selection
In-game-management
Balance (attack/defence)
Marking system
SUBSTITUTIONS
Timing
Effectiveness
PRIORITISATION

MEDIA RELATIONS

I've left out man management because that would mainly be speculation, but if you want to rate him on that then go for it. You may feel media relations is not really something you care if he's any good at, it certainly is low in my consideration since it is what happens on the pitch that matters and that largely shapes what goes on with the media and also determines success.

I could put in success, but that can be made up of a number of factors which are the skills The reason I came up with this thread was to assess how good a manager we think he is, whether he has the skills that will shape said success. We had a good win in Europe in 2004/05, but that was far from convincing and with predominantly Houllier's team. Now Rafa has his own team the cup finals have dried up. Coincidence? Whether he stays or goes should be based on whether he has the management skills to win the league, with or without a shedload of £££ to spend.

10 of the players used in the 2005 CL final were Houllier signings, just two were Rafa signings.

In the 2006 FA Cup final, six Houllier signings played, two on the bench and six Rafa signings.

In the 2007 CL final nine of the players used in the final were Rafa signings of whom five have gone already (as have two of the Rafa signings on the bench)

You could argue none of Rafa's teams have won a trophy, even the 2006 FA Cup winning side was only half Rafa's. Yes he was in charge of the team, but was it his input that won the game or that of the players? That said he didn't win the CL final or FA Cup final, they were decided on penalties. All three of his biggest trophies were won aet, the scorers were Gerrard (x3), Cisse (x3), Alonso, Smicer and Luis Garcia - Rafa signed just two of those players.

Please Juventus, take him off our hands.

Faith? The mans an absoloute idiot.

In terms of the money spent, in the region of £250,000,000 I believe, give or take a few pennies his signings have been :censored:

poor in the main.

Anyone could tell you Torres was a good player, obviously Xabi (before the idiot :censored:

him off) was a massive success as was Reina. Crouch was ok, Sissoko was ok and Fowler done a job. Luis Garcia was hit and miss and Johnson probably will turn out ok in the long run (but for alot of money). Beyond that I'm struggling to think of any other good signings for the club.

In terms of the squad, the midfield has the right balance in terms of the players who should start, but never will. The quality is ok through the midfield without being great. Torres is the only striker at the club worth a w@nk and the defence is pretty much a shambles. The youth players are all poor aswell with the exception of Pacheco and Kelly who'll never play under the management of this idiot either.

Tactically he's played Gerrard out of position for years, as he has Kuyt (who isn't the best when played where he should be). Also, he often makes bizzare and needless changes which leave you sctraching your head.

The zonal marking and team setup is fine, the personel he now has isn't.

His media relationships are also becoming increasingly tiresome and repetative. His man management is also a complete disgrace.

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:58 pm

Banned already, that must be a record.

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:59 pm

Be careful what you wish for !!!

Rory Smith
Rory Smith is a football reporter for the Daily and Sunday Telegraph in the north west, covering Liverpool and Everton, as well as Manchester United, Manchester City and the myriad other teams who make up English football's heartland.

Wanted: New Liverpool manager. Must have GSOH

“I do not know what will happen in four or five months. In football, things change” – Manuel Garcia Quilon

Let the music play and the dance start anew. Liverpool supporters know the steps. A big job on the continent becomes available. Rafael Benitez’s name is brought up. A fairly anodyne suggestion from his agent, Sr Quilon, that he cannot predict the future – after all, Benitez may be king come May, he may have ditched football for a role as a TV handyman – is picked at, pored over. Whispers of contracts, of unhappiness, of the lure of some exotic city, grow into a cacophony, countered only by acquaintances and friends insisting he is happy on Merseyside. Round and round and round we whirl. Only in August, when the merry-go-round ceases and the dizziness stops, will we know. A nervous nausea or the elation of adrenalin? It depends what happens. It depends what you want to happen.

First, then, some facts. Juventus is the job du jour for the beleaguered Liverpool manager. La vecchia signora wants rid of her boy-toy, Ciro Ferrara, after finding he simply could not give her what she needed. A more experienced fancy man is required, a man who knows what an Old Lady wants, and she is prepared to wait until the summer to get him. Maybe a few months of being single will do her good (yes, that’s quite enough of that). Benitez is the number one choice for the role, on a long-term basis, of Juve’s numerous powerbrokers. Roberto Bettega, Alessio Secco, Jean-Claude Blanc and Lapo Elkann, the power behind the throne, are in agreement. An offer will be made. They are confident they have the financial muscle to lure him to Turin.

That it is Juventus is almost by-the-by. There is a good chance that, once the sun returns to these shores, both of the jobs at the San Siro will be up for grabs, and possibly Real Madrid, too, depending on the whims of Florentino Perez. Benitez will be linked to all of them. With his position at Liverpool under unprecedented scrutiny and a growing number of fans convinced a change is needed, there is every chance the Spaniard’s love of Merseyside and his desire to see through the project which he began six years ago will be superceded. The rumours have swirled for years. This time, they could come true.

Enough has been said on whether that is the right thing to do for Liverpool. That issue boils down, basically, to whether you happen to believe Benitez has done enough in his time at Anfield to warrant a chance to rectify his mistakes of this campaign. The majority, probably, would suggest he has. A growing minority disagree. It’s a personal choice.

Rather, it is perhaps time to consider what may happen to Liverpool should Benitez go, what may happen in the long, arduous search for a man to replace him and what that could mean for a club desperate for success now.

Conventional wisdom suggests Liverpool would have their pick of the litter when it comes to a new manager. Fans, understandably, want a Mourinho, a Hiddink, a Lippi or a Capello. What, though, is the advertising pitch? “Famous old club seeks man to move in to bijou home for title tilt. All candidates must be able to win the Premier League on a pittance – but you can spend what you raise in sales! – and capable of adapting when, without warning, your bosses decide they need to pay down the debt they promised not to laden the club with at the expense of your transfer funds. Warning: goalposts may shift. Must have GSOH.”

Is that likely to tempt one of management’s A-listers? No. Aim lower. How about Roy Hodgson or Martin O’Neill, the leading domestic contenders? Possibly, but Hodgson is 63, and O’Neill would think twice about swapping one good American owner, in Randy Lerner, for Messrs Hicks and Gillett. The club has pull, yes, but the owners possess plenty of push.

Abroad, then. Unai Emery? Valencia would love that, and he’d cost a pretty penny. Liverpool don’t have two of them to rub together. Lower. Laurent Blanc? You’d have to see off Inter, if Jose leaves. Lower. Jorge Jesus (the Benfica manager, fact fans)? Domingos Paciencia, of Braga? Jurgen Klinsmann? That sort of level. Is that definitely a step up on Benitez? Even those who have grown to loathe him would hardly be convinced.

Say an ambitious young manager does take the job on. What happens on the pitch? How do they stamp their authority on the side without any money to spend (and, quite possibly, no Champions League football)? Well, you would sell off the Benitez stalwarts and the squad ballast, if possible. Dirk Kuyt, Lucas, Sotirios Kyrgiakos, Philipp Degen, Damien Plessis, Albert Riera, Ryan Babel and Diego Cavalieri would bring in around £40 million or so of spending money (possibly – at Liverpool, the gap between the cushions and the sofa tends to be quite large). Javier Mascherano may choose to make his move to Barcelona. Another £30 million, though Benitez’s putative replacement would hope to persuade him to stay. Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina? Both are settled enough to allow a new man chance, and Juve, if that is to be who tempts Benitez away, can afford neither. Retaining Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher would be vital to ensure some sense of continuity.

Whoever the new manager was, they would retain the core of a very good team. Reina in goal, with Glen Johnson and Martin Kelly the right-backs, Carragher, Daniel Agger and/or Martin Skrtel in the centre, and the promising Emiliano Insua at left back, and maybe Fabio Aurelio. Mascherano, possibly, and Alberto Aquilani in the middle, Maxi Rodriguez on the right, Yossi Benayoun on the left, as well as the world’s best attacking midfielder and the world’s best striker. Youngsters like David Ngog, Daniel Pacheco, Nathan Eccleston, David Amoo, Daniel Ayala, Peter Gulacsi and Krisztian Nemeth provide a bit of depth. Plus around £40 million to spend. Maybe. Benitez may even bequeath his successor Marouane Chamakh and Milan Jovanovic, as Gerard Houllier left him Djibril Cisse. Thanks for that, Gerard.

Liverpool would not be finished. But then neither would the jigsaw of ending their 20-year wait for a title. Benitez’s replacement would need a centre back, a left-back, a central midfielder or two, another winger and a striker. At least. And Hicks and Gillett, through Christian Purslow, would need to provide the new man with a staff and a salary, and possibly compensation to his old employers. All for £40 million. It wouldn’t go very far. Liverpool would be stuck with £5 million players again, when what they need are £15 million ones.

The same cycle of trying to build a team to challenge football’s princes from the position of pauper would begin again. And round and round and round they’d go, because Liverpool’s woes do not begin or end in the Boot Room. Yes, Benitez has his faults. Yes, a new manager may solve some of the problems the club faces, but it is not a panacea for all of Liverpool’s ills. It is in the boardroom and on the balance sheet that there must be a change for the dance to stop.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport....ve-gsoh

by **Boocity** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:07 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:Banned already, that must be a record.

Bit harsh, I've seen worse abusive posts

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:21 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
I ask people... name me another manager in the history of football who doesnt celebrate their team scoring??...EVER. When Gerrard hammered home vs Olympiakos, 45,000 went nuts, while he didnt flinch, this aint normal.

You go way OTT, just as you do with Lucas, despite possibly having a point.

Capello is hardly the most animated character and he's considered one of the best managers around.

And I suppose Rafa's lack of outward emotion didn't do us any harm on the way to Istanbul. He was focussed on getting the job done, which one presumes every fan wants their manager to be doing. When it's all said and done...well, then

That's what.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:23 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:Banned already, that must be a record.

He completely slagged off the manager. Bang out of order, IMO.

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:24 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:Banned already, that must be a record.

He completely slagged off the manager. Bang out of order, IMO.

Its an awkward one, because i dont think calling him an idiot is the right way to go.
He made some interesting points in his half hour posting though.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:26 pm

Boocity wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:Banned already, that must be a record.

Bit harsh, I've seen worse abusive posts

I think it is Stu from back in the day. Who I think has been banned each year since 2005.

Glutton for punishment.

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:28 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Boocity wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:Banned already, that must be a record.

Bit harsh, I've seen worse abusive posts

I think it is Stu from back in the day. Who I think has been banned each year since 2005.

Glutton for punishment.

fo dne

by **fivecups** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:29 pm

Boocity wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:Banned already, that must be a record.

Bit harsh, I've seen worse abusive posts

Boocity, you must have seen stu banned many times before, right?

'He needs shooting....' said of our current manager?

?

Instant ban in my opinion.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:30 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:Banned already, that must be a record.

He completely slagged off the manager. Bang out of order, IMO.

Its an awkward one, because i dont think calling him an idiot is the right way to go.
He made some interesting points in his half hour posting though.

Agree, I think he knows his football.

But, you can't have the gaffer being an "idiot", "piece of s*@t", "horrible, evil control freak", "who needs shooting", "is a cancer in the club" etc...

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:34 pm

Yeah i suppose.

Must have alot of pent up anger Stu

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