Liverpool FC Forum

by **Zidane** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:58 pm

The problem I have is people putting the start we've had so far on Rafa, this is what you're saying really. In the end last season we were on the right track no one will debate that I assume yeah? This past transfer window was as crucial to us as any that I can remember and we were let down by the owners, not Rafa. I'm not saying that it is all the owners fault I have my criticisms of Rafa as well but after last season we NEEDED to spend big and mount the pressure on other teams but we didn't. We were lied to about the transfer budget and we were left with nothing really. Maybe this moment should have come sooner, I won't deny that, but it finally came after last season and we failed, miserably I might add, to capitalize on it.

This alone is proof that progress will always be minimal at Liverpool until we have more funds. Ultimately I agree with Rafa that this club has progressed in more ways than one on and off the pitch since he has come to Liverpool, and it is why I love what he has done for the club and really do hope that we make our return to glory with him at the helm. Maybe the progress on the pitch hasn't been as fast as you may have wanted but oh :censored:

well. Anyway, I don't understand the criticism of his interview I really don't, it's flat out disrespectful. I'm not saying you have to praise him for anything in it but the criticism should have just been left alone. The players deserve more criticism than Rafa for our start this season.

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:59 pm

More lies from our manager . Cheeky c@nt that he is . I don't know how he has the bollox to show his face in public.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....873.ece

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:00 am

bigmick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:When Rafa has got his first choice players they have been a success bar i think Morientis .

Dossena?

Of course, he didnt choose Keane did he...?

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:00 am

The point igor was makin is the reason we didnt get these players is down to one reason - Money/Funds and that ultimately leads to the Owners.

And you basically tore into it going on about Parry and making out as if its down to Rafa

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:01 am

Benny The Noon wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:When Rafa has got his first choice players they have been a success bar i think Morientis .

Dossena?

Ok add Dossena to the list , and Maybe Keane and babel - if they were indeed a first choice of Rafa . There is off course the freebie bosmans but imo these guys were more for the squad bar aurelio

The big money first choice guys have been a success

Pepe
Johnso
Agger
Skittle
Xabi
Kuyt
Yossi
Reira
Masher
Torres
Momo
Crouch
and good early signs about Aqualini

When given the money to get the players he really wants on the whole he has been a success with the odd duffer- just like any other manager

As i said what are these resources with which we should be doing better with ?

See this is the crux and why I'm constantly mystified by peoples reactions on this forum. I AGREE HE'S BOUGHT PRETTY WELL, I'VE SAID IT ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS, I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually think we've got a good team, remember, it's me Mick, they guy who has been saying we are good enough to challenge for the title for three seasons, the bloke who does the long posts.

WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CHALLENGE FOR THE TITLE UNLESS HE'D BOUGHT SOME GOOD PLAYERS. I agree with you.

My point is, that we ought to be doing better given the team we have, the team which almost won the title last season. The reason we aren't isn't because we didn't sign Aaoron Ramsay, and we aren't the only club who "missed out" on him.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:02 am

Zidane wrote:The problem I have is people putting the start we've had so far on Rafa, this is what you're saying really. In the end last season we were on the right track no one will debate that I assume yeah? This past transfer window was as crucial to us as any that I can remember and we were let down by the owners, not Rafa. I'm not saying that it is all the owners fault I have my criticisms of Rafa as well but after last season we NEEDED to spend big and mount the pressure on other teams but we didn't. We were lied to about the transfer budget and we were left with nothing really. Maybe this moment should have come sooner, I won't deny that, but it finally came after last season and we failed, miserably I might add, to capitalize on it.

This alone is proof that progress will always be minimal at Liverpool until we have more funds. Ultimately I agree with Rafa that this club has progressed in more ways than one on and off the pitch since he has come to Liverpool, and it is why I love what he has done for the club and really do hope that we make our return to glory with him at the helm. Maybe the progress on the pitch hasn't been as fast as you may have wanted but oh well. Anyway, I don't understand the criticism of his interview I really don't, it's flat out disrespectful. I'm not saying you have to praise him for anything in it but the criticism should have just been left alone. The players deserve more criticism than Rafa for our start this season.

Spot on mate - well said .

People will use anything to have a pop at Rafa during this bad period of form .

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:07 am

bigmick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:When Rafa has got his first choice players they have been a success bar i think Morientis .

Dossena?

Ok add Dossena to the list , and Maybe Keane and babel - if they were indeed a first choice of Rafa . There is off course the freebie bosmans but imo these guys were more for the squad bar aurelio

The big money first choice guys have been a success

Pepe
Johnso
Agger
Skittle
Xabi
Kuyt
Yossi
Reira
Masher
Torres
Momo
Crouch
and good early signs about Aqualini

When given the money to get the players he really wants on the whole he has been a success with the odd duffer- just like any other manager

As i said what are these resources with which we should be doing better with ?

See this is the crux and why I'm constantly mystified by peoples reactions on this forum. I AGREE HE'S BOUGHT PRETTY WELL, I'VE SAID IT ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS, I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually think we've got a good team, remember, it's me Mick, they guy who has been saying we are good enough to challenge for the title for three seasons, the bloke who does the long posts.

WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CHALLENGE FOR THE TITLE UNLESS HE'D BOUGHT SOME GOOD PLAYERS. I agree with you.

My point is, that we ought to be doing better given the team we have, the team which almost won the title last season. The reason we aren't isn't because we didn't sign Aaoron Ramsay, and we aren't the only club who "missed out" on him.

And the point many people have made to you is past the first 11 the squad is weak due to us being able to get decent back ups and having to deal with the voronins etc . Players he got on the cheap becuase we couldnt afford anyone else .

yes we have a great first 11 - but you need more than just a great 11 now due to injuries and fatigue etc - you need a great first 16 plus a couple of decent others .

People are pointing out and Rafa that if we had been able to get players like Ramsey and walcott and alves and simao etc then our first team would of been even better and our back ups would of been even better .

And resources Michael - do you mean the players we have got - most of who have been injured at some stage throughout the season .

yes torres and gerrard were around for the spurs and villa defeat but since then ? massive injury which i think seems to be subsiding and maybe we can then see that firts 11 out on the pitch and an upturn in form and a run going .

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:07 am

fecking hell you really couldn't make it up with you guys, honestly you couldn't. Nobody needs to "use anything to have a pop at the manager" FFS, we are down with Stoke and Burnley in the league, out of the Carling Cup and practically out of the Champions League. It's not like you have to search around for reasons to "have a pop" at the manager.

How many times do you have to say it? The owners are c...s but all this "primary targets" stuff where we list a few of the players we didn't sign over the last six seasons who've turned out to be good, whilst completely omitting those who have turned out to be cr@p who we didn't sign (or even those that we did) is nonsense.

We have a good team, lets try and win some football matches. If by the end of this season we haven't won enough, lets get in a manager who can win us enough.

by **Igor Zidane** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:09 am

Benny The Noon wrote:The point igor was makin is the reason we didnt get these players is down to one reason - Money/Funds and that ultimately leads to the Owners.

And you basically tore into it going on about Parry and making out as if its down to Rafa

The point i was making , was that we all base our opinions on rafa on either speculation or hearsay or what has come out in the media. None of us know him personally or what's really going on behind the scenes .So this was a chance for all of us to get some insight about the man the manager and about all the :censored:

involving the owners ,transfers ,the academy ,the future ,straight from the horses mouth . Or one of the horses anyway .

What happens , it gets put down to spin and lies and manipulation .
Not taken for what it was ,which was just an honest interview , that's all .No big feckin drama's ,,no spin ,just an interview . So waht happen's now is what always happens on this forum .Rafa comes out looking likea tw@t and some master spin doctor who manipulates the press and us kn)bheads who believe in him .

:veryangry

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:10 am

bigmick wrote: fecking hell you really couldn't make it up with you guys, honestly you couldn't. Nobody needs to "use anything to have a pop at the manager" FFS, we are down with Stoke and Burnley in the league, out of the Carling Cup and practically out of the Champions League. It's not like you have to search around for reasons to "have a pop" at the manager.

How many times do you have to say it? The owners are c...s but all this "primary targets" stuff where we list a few of the players we didn't sign over the last six seasons who've turned out to be good, whilst completely omitting those who have turned out to be cr@p who we didn't sign (or even those that we did) is nonsense.

We have a good team, lets try and win some football matches. If by the end of this season we haven't won enough, lets get in a manager who can win us enough.

But rafa hasnt ommited anyone - he has even admitted in the interview he has made mistakes in the transfer market - highlighted keane as an example .

You fail to see the reasons why players like Ramsey and others are relevant to what Rafa is saying in the interview and no matter what anyone says you will still fail to see the relevance to it .

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:11 am

I can see a scenario in three years time whereby we won't have won a raffle for 7 seasons, Gerrard will have retired along with Carragher and we'll still be talking about how the manager "loves the club", and all the trophies we would have won if we'd signed our "primary targets". If we hadn't spent the first 3 and a half seasons trying to build two teams rahter than one so we could make 75 changes to the team in the first 15 matches of the season we'd have been ahead of where we are now, but we aren't so lets get on with it.

Yes the injuries are currently bad though, nobody can deny that.

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:14 am

Anyhow people are getting increasingly annoyed here so I'll leave it. It's a shame that it's not possible to allow other fans to have a different opinion, but it is obviously the case so I'll leave it.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:15 am

Can you hear that noise michael ?

Thats the sound of the point going right over your head .

Or your either ignoring what anyone is saying and have decided that what you think is what Rafa is saying and no matter what anyone says you wont see what we are trying to say .

Lost cause .

Let me know when sensible debating Michael is back on the scene as opposed to the high and mighty broken record one .

And as for letting other fans have an opinion im pretty sure it was you yesterday that accused people of being blind or stupid for having a different opinion about a player to yourself

so as LFC2007 said - Practice what you preach .

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:17 am

Igor Zidane wrote:More lies from our manager . Cheeky c@nt that he is . I don't know how he has the bollox to show his face in public.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....873.ece

“You never know,” he said slowly. “Football is a funny game. The plan was for Barry to play on the left and feed the ball to Robbie Keane, who would play up front with Fernando Torres. This blueprint had to be scrapped. The collateral damage was Keane, who signed from Tottenham Hotspur before the Barry deal had been done.
“When we wanted to sign Barry, we were sure we were signing a good player with a very good mentality and the quality to play in the Premier League. The priority was Barry, then Keane.”

So the truth comes out. Rafa wanted Keane to play in front of Barry. Didnt get Barry so Keane had to go.
Shocking

by **Igor Zidane** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:18 am

bigmick wrote:Anyhow people are getting increasingly annoyed here so I'll leave it. It's a shame that it's not possible to allow other fans to have a different opinion, but it is obviously the case so I'll leave it.

No don't leave it mick , come on lets keep on going . Have you been insulted or called names . I'ts a heated discussion thst's all , we can manage one of those can't we ,without calling each other c@nts .

PS I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT BIGUSS MICKUSS DID NOT AND NEVER HAS ISULTED RAFA . IT WAS ME TRYING TO BE A SMART@SRE SO I APOLOGIES UNRESERVEDLY.

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