Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:45 pm

LFC2007 wrote:We had a genuine interest in Turner (those who cling to the notion of 'realism' should attach that connotation to 'interested'), but we didn't sign him. The funds would never be made available so why didn't the board (the owners, the hierarchy, the men at the top) inform Rafa instead of fecking about, wasting time and effort trying to sign a player we couldn't afford? If that isn't incompetence, what is?

It is stating the obvious to say that every club "misses out on primary targets", we do though seem to have missed out on a damn site more of these 'primary target's than the Manc's or Chelsea. Besides, the 'primary targets' they've missed out on down the years have been way out of our league financially - you provide Ronaldinho as an excellent example. No, if you have competent executives, you don't continually miss out on key targets for the sake of half a million quid here or there, as we have with Simao, Alves and a host of others.

Whose "incompetence" is it if the manager wastes time trying to sign players he can't afford though? Whose incompetence is it if the manager finds out that when he improves everyones contract, this money comes out of his transfer budget**. Surely if you are managing a club the size of Liverpool and a business with the turnover of Liverpool, you'd find all this stuff out before you went wasting your time trying to sign players who you couldn't afford? I know it suits a certain scenario to believe the "pull the rug" theory, but Purslow ("fecking Purslow :angry:

") was very keen to point out that ALL of the targets which Rafa had wanted had been secured. he may be a lying c..., but then again he may not.

I'm glad you think Ronaldinho is a good example of a "primary target" being missed, because he is. The Mancs were within a whisker of signing him for 12 million quid before it fell through and he went to Barca, the rest well and truly being history. That was pretty much the last you heard of it though, as they went on and won the Premiership three times on the bounce with some different players in instead, that's what you do. It's the same thing they are trying to do this season after not getting Benzema or Ribery.

** The reason I've put this in, is because none of know for sure which side of any of the stories are true. Parry's version of events is very different to Rafa's for instance, and whilst I know "fecking Parry :angry:

" won't be believed by many, none of us know for sure who is telling the truth in any of these situations.

It really comes back to the same old question at the end of the day. Are we over performing or under perfroming? If it's the latter (which it fairly obviously is), do the excuses give a reasonable reason for it? Some people think they do, some don't. I fairly obviously don't.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:50 pm

We bid 7 mil for him and they wanted 8 mil . The club wouldnt match the asking price for Alves .

Liverpool cleared to sign Alves
Daniel Alves
Alves has been a long-term target of Liverpool's Rafael Benitez
Sevilla have reluctantly agreed to sell defender Daniel Alves to Liverpool, but say the Reds have yet to match their asking price, believed to be £8m.

The 23-year-old's agent Jose Rodriguez said his client was very interested in a move to Anfield.

"Daniel is happy where he is but he wants to improve like anyone else," Rodriguez told AS newspaper.

"I do not want to say he does not want to stay at Sevilla but it is clear he is attracted by a move to Liverpool."

Alves is a long-term target of Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez.

Sevilla president Jose Maria del Nido said: "We're already talking big money but Sevilla don't want to lose Daniel.

"He has let us know the offer from Liverpool is the most important. But he has not put pressure on us and we don't have a harsh relationship with him."

Brazilian Alves has been at Sevilla for four years now and impressed during their Uefa Cup success in 2006, most notably in the 4-0 demolition of Middlesbrough in the final.

Liverpool are thought to have already made a £7m bid for the player, which was deemed too low by his current employers.

Del Nido added: "Liverpool have not yet made us an offer which is acceptable. Until they meet our asking price, there's no deal."

Report from the BBC at the time

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:51 pm

s@int wrote:If you cast your mind back, or even delve in the old threads , you might remember how everyone was saying how clever Rafa was for not paying over the odds for Alves? It was quite a popular theme at the time.

I only joined here in 2007. In any case, what people on here said bears no relation to what actually happened.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:55 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:In the past, Rafa's frequently made known his frustrations at our inability to tie up deals quickly in the transfer market. Long before now, and in much more optimistic times, so I don't think it's all pie in the sky as you seem particularly keen to imply.

The fact that you cite Turner as an example of this is especially baffling since it was widely known that Rafa was interested in him. Indeed, IIRC, Phil Brown and/or Rafa actually said the clubs were looking to negotiate a deal. I suspect we would have snapped up Kyrgiakos much earlier had he known where he stood.

If you want other examples, Alves and Simao are cast iron. Simao even boarded the plane.

IIRC the deal for Alves was done and dusted, but Rafa didn't want to pay the £10million that Parry had agreed to, and told Parry to cancel the deal. We then went for Pennant and Kuyt instead.

Im sorry saint but that seems totally false compared to what has been said - For one it was the failing of the Simao deal that forced us to go for pennant in the end in not the failure to get Alves - we didnt get Alves because the club wouldnt pay 8 million pound for a right back at the time in 2006 .Rafa wanted the player .

Nope. We went for Simao in 2005, we went for Alves in 2006 and bought Pennant in 2006 mate.

Thats why there was so much discussion about whether Rafa wanted to play Alves on the wing. We offered £7million for him that was rejected, we then went back and offered £8million before Parry closed the deal on £10million. Rafa then told him to tell them the deal was off.

Liverpool thwarted in £10m Simao bid as Everton land van der Meyde
By Jason Burt
Thursday, 1 September 2005

Liverpool were defeated in their increasingly desperate attempt to complete the £10m transfer last night of right-winger Simao Sabrosa from Benfica. The Portuguese international had passed his medical and agreed personal terms after being given permission to fly to England by his national federation with whom he is on World Cup duty.

However, despite Simao's agent, Jorge Baidek, claiming that the "operation is very advanced", Benfica's attempts to thwart the deal by driving a hard bargain succeeded. Simao flew back to Portugal as expected but the two clubs were in disagreement about the payment schedule for the 25-year-old, with Liverpool also resisting Benfica's attempts to take striker Djibril Cissé in return.

15 June 2006, 13:37 GMT 14:37 UK
Liverpool cleared to sign Alves

Alves has been a long-term target of Liverpool's Rafael Benitez
Sevilla have reluctantly agreed to sell defender Daniel Alves to Liverpool, but say the Reds have yet to match their asking price, believed to be £8m.
The 23-year-old's agent Jose Rodriguez said his client was very interested in a move to Anfield.

"Daniel is happy where he is but he wants to improve like anyone else," Rodriguez told AS newspaper.

"I do not want to say he does not want to stay at Sevilla but it is clear he is attracted by a move to Liverpool."
Alves is a long-term target of Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez.

Sevilla president Jose Maria del Nido said: "We're already talking big money but Sevilla don't want to lose Daniel.

"He has let us know the offer from Liverpool is the most important. But he has not put pressure on us and we don't have a harsh relationship with him."

Brazilian Alves has been at Sevilla for four years now and impressed during their Uefa Cup success in 2006, most notably in the 4-0 demolition of Middlesbrough in the final.

Liverpool are thought to have already made a £7m bid for the player, which was deemed too low by his current employers.

Del Nido added: "Liverpool have not yet made us an offer which is acceptable. Until they meet our asking price, there's no deal."

Winger Pennant moves to Liverpool

Wednesday, July 26, 2006 Posted: 1720 GMT (0120 HKT)

Pennant's pace and crossing accuracy have sealed a move to Liverpool.LONDON, England -- Liverpool have completed the signing of Birmingham winger Jermaine Pennant for £6m ($11.1million).

Pennant, 23, has signed a four-year deal and will link-up with his new teammates on their tour of Switzerland.

Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez finally moved for Pennant after having several offers rejected for Sevilla's Brazilian star Daniel Alves.

The former Arsenal player becomes Benitez's fifth summer signing following the arrivals of Craig Bellamy, Fabio Aurelio, Gabriel Paletta and Mark Gonzalez.

Pennant, who became the most expensive teenager in British football when he joined Arsenal from Notts County for £2m in 1999, believes the move to his boyhood idols can help him break into the England squad.

He told Liverpool's website: "I've dreamt about this since I was a little boy so to actually be here and to be able to wear a Liverpool shirt and play at Anfield is a dream come true.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:08 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
s@int wrote:If you cast your mind back, or even delve in the old threads , you might remember how everyone was saying how clever Rafa was for not paying over the odds for Alves? It was quite a popular theme at the time.

I only joined here in 2007. In any case, what people on here said bears no relation to what actually happened.

Exactly

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:10 pm

s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:In the past, Rafa's frequently made known his frustrations at our inability to tie up deals quickly in the transfer market. Long before now, and in much more optimistic times, so I don't think it's all pie in the sky as you seem particularly keen to imply.

The fact that you cite Turner as an example of this is especially baffling since it was widely known that Rafa was interested in him. Indeed, IIRC, Phil Brown and/or Rafa actually said the clubs were looking to negotiate a deal. I suspect we would have snapped up Kyrgiakos much earlier had he known where he stood.

If you want other examples, Alves and Simao are cast iron. Simao even boarded the plane.

IIRC the deal for Alves was done and dusted, but Rafa didn't want to pay the £10million that Parry had agreed to, and told Parry to cancel the deal. We then went for Pennant and Kuyt instead.

Im sorry saint but that seems totally false compared to what has been said - For one it was the failing of the Simao deal that forced us to go for pennant in the end in not the failure to get Alves - we didnt get Alves because the club wouldnt pay 8 million pound for a right back at the time in 2006 .Rafa wanted the player .

Nope. We went for Simao in 2005, we went for Alves in 2006 and bought Pennant in 2006 mate.

Thats why there was so much discussion about whether Rafa wanted to play Alves on the wing.

So he had to go for other options after not getting his first option ?!?! isnt that the point he is making

by **bigmick** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:10 pm

Ah feck it S@int, he's turned out to be a good player so lets just blame Parry anyway :laugh:

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:15 pm

bigmick wrote:Ah feck it S@int, he's turned out to be a good player so lets just blame Parry anyway

I was going to put up a post from another site that explains how Parry was desperate to sign Ramsey but Mercia wasn't keen on the deal...... glad I thought better of it now

Fecking Parry :angry:

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:15 pm

bigmick wrote:Ah feck it S@int, he's turned out to be a good player so lets just blame Parry anyway

Your getting pretty boring arent you now .Who is blaming parry - show me anywhere the words " its parrys fault " your the one that keeps bringing it up on a constant basis . As well as going back to high and mighty Michael you have re introduced "broken record bringing up the same thing over and over again " Michael

Are you bored or in a bad mood or something ?

Any chance you can go back to debate sensibly without old habits Michael again ?

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:20 pm

In fact fu.ck it - well done Michael you have prob ruined a decent debate on a decent thread all because someone (Our Own Manager) said something that didnt fall into the way you think it should be .

You spent a good while crying and complaining and whinging about no decent debate and any decent debate is ruined by nonsense posts - well take a good look in the mirror .

Maybe just as LFC 2007 has said " Practice what you preach ".

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:20 pm

So it was Rafas imcompetence then to begin talks with Phil Brown an Turner , as your saying Mick without the owners knowledge , He was told he had money to spend he went after Turner an as i said talked to Brown an Turner then the deal was pulled , by the owners does everyone understand it was the owners , money needed to be paid to the bank , simply . If you identify a player you go to the moneymen an talk first before you appproach the other club,about the player , he must have been surly given the go ahead by them two to approach Phil Brown regarding his player,

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:20 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:In the past, Rafa's frequently made known his frustrations at our inability to tie up deals quickly in the transfer market. Long before now, and in much more optimistic times, so I don't think it's all pie in the sky as you seem particularly keen to imply.

The fact that you cite Turner as an example of this is especially baffling since it was widely known that Rafa was interested in him. Indeed, IIRC, Phil Brown and/or Rafa actually said the clubs were looking to negotiate a deal. I suspect we would have snapped up Kyrgiakos much earlier had he known where he stood.

If you want other examples, Alves and Simao are cast iron. Simao even boarded the plane.

IIRC the deal for Alves was done and dusted, but Rafa didn't want to pay the £10million that Parry had agreed to, and told Parry to cancel the deal. We then went for Pennant and Kuyt instead.

Im sorry saint but that seems totally false compared to what has been said - For one it was the failing of the Simao deal that forced us to go for pennant in the end in not the failure to get Alves - we didnt get Alves because the club wouldnt pay 8 million pound for a right back at the time in 2006 .Rafa wanted the player .

Nope. We went for Simao in 2005, we went for Alves in 2006 and bought Pennant in 2006 mate.

Thats why there was so much discussion about whether Rafa wanted to play Alves on the wing.

So he had to go for other options after not getting his first option ?!?! isnt that the point he is making

The point I am making is that it was Rafa who decided not to pay the agreed £10million for Alves, not that we had no money or Parry fecked up.

BTW How did you manage to edit your posts without it showing its an edit ?

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:21 pm

bigmick wrote:Whose "incompetence" is it if the manager wastes time trying to sign players he can't afford though? Whose incompetence is it if the manager finds out that when he improves everyones contract, this money comes out of his transfer budget**. Surely if you are managing a club the size of Liverpool and a business with the turnover of Liverpool, you'd find all this stuff out before you went wasting your time trying to sign players who you couldn't afford? I know it suits a certain scenario to believe the "pull the rug" theory, but Purslow ("fecking Purslow ") was very keen to point out that ALL of the targets which Rafa had wanted had been secured. he may be a lying c..., but then again he may not.

** The reason I've put this in, is because none of know for sure which side of any of the stories are true. Parry's version of events is very different to Rafa's for instance, and whilst I know "fecking Parry " won't be believed by many, none of us know for sure who is telling the truth in any of these situations.

The first part question - of course nobody knows for 'certain' - but what's more likely: That Rafa sent one of his mates to pursue a pipedream, or that one of the club executives commenced negotiations before having the rug pulled by the owners? Let's be realistic here

The alternative is to say that our interest was never genuine, which would require you to deny the obvious, and if not the obvious, then Nanny Red's insider knowledge.

I'm glad you think Ronaldinho is a good example of a "primary target" being missed, because he is. The Mancs were within a whisker of signing him for 12 million quid before it fell through and he went to Barca, the rest well and truly being history. That was pretty much the last you heard of it though, as they went on and won the Premiership three times on the bounce with some different players in instead, that's what you do.

No, the Manc's used that money and bought Ronaldo, and it was in fact three seasons before they won the league again.

It really comes back to the same old question at the end of the day. Are we over performing or under perfroming? If it's the latter (which it fairly obviously is), do the excuses give a reasonable reason for it? Some people think they do, some don't. I fairly obviously don't.

Clearly we're underperforming, and I'm not excusing our current situation. I do find it irritating though when people use ridiculous arguments to make him appear like a clown barely worthy of managing any football club, let alone Liverpool FC.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:22 pm

s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:In the past, Rafa's frequently made known his frustrations at our inability to tie up deals quickly in the transfer market. Long before now, and in much more optimistic times, so I don't think it's all pie in the sky as you seem particularly keen to imply.

The fact that you cite Turner as an example of this is especially baffling since it was widely known that Rafa was interested in him. Indeed, IIRC, Phil Brown and/or Rafa actually said the clubs were looking to negotiate a deal. I suspect we would have snapped up Kyrgiakos much earlier had he known where he stood.

If you want other examples, Alves and Simao are cast iron. Simao even boarded the plane.

IIRC the deal for Alves was done and dusted, but Rafa didn't want to pay the £10million that Parry had agreed to, and told Parry to cancel the deal. We then went for Pennant and Kuyt instead.

Im sorry saint but that seems totally false compared to what has been said - For one it was the failing of the Simao deal that forced us to go for pennant in the end in not the failure to get Alves - we didnt get Alves because the club wouldnt pay 8 million pound for a right back at the time in 2006 .Rafa wanted the player .

Nope. We went for Simao in 2005, we went for Alves in 2006 and bought Pennant in 2006 mate.

Thats why there was so much discussion about whether Rafa wanted to play Alves on the wing.

So he had to go for other options after not getting his first option ?!?! isnt that the point he is making

The point I am making is that it was Rafa who decided not to pay the agreed £10million for Alves, not that we had no money or Parry fecked up.

Well it was 8 mil according to reports and also according to reports it was the club that refused to meet the asking price - once agaian saint is that not just your opinion or is there anywhere that states that it was Rafa who refused to pay the money - remembering back then he didnt have full control over the transfers .

I dont know :laugh:

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:28 pm

I don't see where it says "Parry closed a £10m deal for Alves, but Rafa said 'no' " ?

Liverpool FC Forum

RAFA BENITEZ LEAVES LIVERPOOL - Official Thread, includes merged threads

Who is online