Liverpool FC Forum

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:50 pm

I know for a fact that we were interested in Turner an its not paper talk Or Rafa saying we let that on slip by, an the reason i know its fact is because his mam told me, an that is fact :nod

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:53 pm

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:01 pm

True mate , i told another member on here at the time it happend. Him an my lad played district an county football together ,He was a midfielder then in his school team wich was Crown Woods they were together at Charlton

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:03 pm

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:That's a complete load of b0llocks.

Sorry you feel that way mate, but there it is. Just bringing a little bit of bitterness towards our own manager and bullsh.it to the table that's all .

Thought would correct you post so it read properly after your earlier story

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:12 pm

NANNY RED wrote:True mate , i told another member on here at the time it happend. Him an my lad played district an county football together ,He was a midfielder then in his school team wich was Crown Woods they were together at Charlton

Officially ITK :nod

by **bigmick** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:13 pm

People who cling to this notion of us being "interested" in players miss the point a bit. Turner is a good example of us being "interested". I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that we were "interested" in him, along with pretty much every other club in the Premiership I should think. Ryan Shawcross is another, clubs are "interested" in him in that they enquire about his availability, ask to be kept informed of developments, enquire about what type of fee would be needed to get him away. Those that aren't "interested" are well and truly sounded out by a players agent should a move become imminent, there are no surpirses in modern football. The centre half at Bolton, Cahill is another.

Pretty much every player which sells to a major Premier League team will have been looked at closely by the other clubs. When we all went "Alberto who?" Wenger said that Arsenal had had a good look at him 18 months ago. When we signed Babel there were strong rumours that Arsenal were sniffing around then too. We had a good look at Antonio Valencia a couple of years back by all accounts, so did everyone else. We sniffed around Darren Bent for a bit while he was at Charlton, so did everyone else. When you get good young players (of which Ramsay is obviously one) the world and his brother is sniffing around. Every Premier League team will have checked him out and spoken to Cardiff about him, they'll all have known about him when he was 13 years old in all probability. Ditto Theo Walcott, no secrets there, everyone knew about him. The kid aston Villa just signed off of Leeds, Delph, eveyone knows about him. West Ham have been banging on about their two young centre halves for a few years now, everyone knows about them. Rodwell at Everton who by all accounts one or two want to pay huge money for, no secrets.

Foreign players from every corner of the globe are known about by all. They all have agents, and if the selling club begins talking to a potential buyer, the agents get on the blower and make sure any other potential buyers are well and truly in the loop. That's what agents get paid for and that's what you'd want yours to do in the same situation. It happens, all clubs are "interested" in a stack of players, all clubs "miss out on primary targets" (ask Ferguson about Ronaldinho off Paris St Germain and two or three other players this summer, Hughes about Kaka, Chelsea about Robinho etc etc). It happens, you get some players you go in for, you don't get others.

Then when you've got your expensively assembled bunch of players, the competitions start and you get on with it. That's the way it's always been, and that's the way it always will be.

Then you're judged as a manager on whether or not you are maximising the resources at your disposal. Yopu don't tell Roy Hodgson to feck off because he didn't win the Premiership, you look at where he's gone and how he's doing based on the money he has, the team he has etc etc. You do the same with Rafa, look at the money he's had, the time he's had and the players he's got. You ask if we're over or under performing and you make your judgement. That's what we all do.

by **bigmick** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:15 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:That's a complete load of b0llocks.

Sorry you feel that way mate, but there it is. Just bringing a little bit of bitterness towards our own manager and bullsh.it to the table that's all .

Thought would correct you post so it read properly after your earlier story

Ah the old "you're not allowed to have an opinion which disagrees with mine" scenario. What a shame.

You are completely allowed to have an opinion which differs with mine though, I fully support your right to completely disagree with me, it's all good.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:25 pm

The difference is Michaal you have stated a few times - "if people cant see that then they are blind - or if people disagree then they are wearing tinted specs or dont have a clue etc etc " .

For a while you put away the high and mighty poster big michael and brought out the balanced and sensible debating michael but it seems the high and mighty .

Can we have a return of the sensible listening and understanding Michael back .

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:26 pm

We had a genuine interest in Turner (those who cling to the notion of 'realism' should attach that connotation to 'interested'), but we didn't sign him. The funds would never be made available so why didn't the board (the owners, the hierarchy, the men at the top) inform Rafa instead of fecking about, wasting time and effort trying to sign a player we couldn't afford? If that isn't incompetence, what is?

It is stating the obvious to say that every club "misses out on primary targets", we do though seem to have missed out on a damn site more of these 'primary target's than the Manc's or Chelsea. Besides, the 'primary targets' they've missed out on down the years have been way out of our league financially - you provide Ronaldinho as an excellent example. No, if you have competent executives, you don't continually miss out on key targets for the sake of half a million quid here or there, as we have with Simao, Alves and a host of others.

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:33 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:The difference is Michaal you have stated a few times - "if people cant see that then they are blind - or if people disagree then they are wearing tinted specs or dont have a clue etc etc " .

I agree.

Practice what you preach.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:33 pm

LFC2007 wrote:In the past, Rafa's frequently made known his frustrations at our inability to tie up deals quickly in the transfer market. Long before now, and in much more optimistic times, so I don't think it's all pie in the sky as you seem particularly keen to imply.

The fact that you cite Turner as an example of this is especially baffling since it was widely known that Rafa was interested in him. Indeed, IIRC, Phil Brown and/or Rafa actually said the clubs were looking to negotiate a deal. I suspect we would have snapped up Kyrgiakos much earlier had he known where he stood.

If you want other examples, Alves and Simao are cast iron. Simao even boarded the plane.

IIRC the deal for Alves was done and dusted, but Rafa didn't want to pay the £10million that Parry had agreed to, and told Parry to cancel the deal. We then went for Pennant and Kuyt instead.

by **bigmick** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:34 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:The difference is Michaal you have stated a few times - "if people cant see that then they are blind - or if people disagree then they are wearing tinted specs or dont have a clue etc etc " .

For a while you put away the high and mighty poster big michael and brought out the balanced and sensible debating michael but it seems the high and mighty .

Can we have a return of the sensible listening and understanding Michael back .

I'm not sure i understand this post really. I said in the Kuyt thread that he has been very poor this season, and only the most rose tinted or clueless wouldn't see that. I stand by that, I dare say even if you asked Kuyt himself he'd tell you the same. Then people say "but he's not on his own" and of course he isn't, nobody said he was

. My response was to a Kuyt post in the Kuyt thread, so I talked about Kuyt. Then you get people saying "well he hasn't been VERY poor, poor maybe, not quite upto his best, but VERY is overstating it etc etc. I give up at that point as it's then only a matter of time before you get plebs asking who is a real fan and the like.

Here, the lad who was made in the UK posted up some very pro-Rafa atricles, which is lovely. Unsurprisingly, those who would consider themselves followers of that particular branch of thought come in with the "good on yer Rafa", and "I can't fecking believe we missed out on such and such" and all that jazz. Just like they said he was a top man for quoting you'll never walk alone, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Similarly however, I can't help thinking that I'm entitled to mine too. I don't FWIW believe that are unique in missing out on players from time to time, and I'vbe clearly explained examples and why I think like I do. Equally, I've clearly stated that I'm perfectly at ease with the fact that many will disagree with me. That's what football forums are for really, discussion and disagreement.

by **LFC2007** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:36 pm

s@int wrote:IIRC the deal for Alves was done and dusted, but Rafa didn't want to pay the £10million that Parry had agreed to, and told Parry to cancel the deal. We then went for Pennant and Kuyt instead.

That's different to my recollection. Kuyt was funded by a personal loan from Moores which suggests the deal for Alves didn't hinge on Rafa wanting two players instead of one.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:36 pm

s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:In the past, Rafa's frequently made known his frustrations at our inability to tie up deals quickly in the transfer market. Long before now, and in much more optimistic times, so I don't think it's all pie in the sky as you seem particularly keen to imply.

The fact that you cite Turner as an example of this is especially baffling since it was widely known that Rafa was interested in him. Indeed, IIRC, Phil Brown and/or Rafa actually said the clubs were looking to negotiate a deal. I suspect we would have snapped up Kyrgiakos much earlier had he known where he stood.

If you want other examples, Alves and Simao are cast iron. Simao even boarded the plane.

IIRC the deal for Alves was done and dusted, but Rafa didn't want to pay the £10million that Parry had agreed to, and told Parry to cancel the deal. We then went for Pennant and Kuyt instead.

Im sorry saint but that seems totally false compared to what has been said - For one it was the failing of the Simao deal that forced us to go for pennant in the end in not the failure to get Alves - we didnt get Alves because the club wouldnt pay 8 million pound for a right back at the time in 2006 .Rafa wanted the player .

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:44 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
s@int wrote:IIRC the deal for Alves was done and dusted, but Rafa didn't want to pay the £10million that Parry had agreed to, and told Parry to cancel the deal. We then went for Pennant and Kuyt instead.

That's different to my recollection. Kuyt was funded by a personal loan from Moores which suggests the deal for Alves didn't hinge on Rafa wanting two players instead of one.

If you cast your mind back, or even delve in the old threads , you might remember how everyone was saying how clever Rafa was for not paying over the odds for Alves? It was quite a popular theme at the time.

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