Liverpool FC Forum

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:09 pm

1 mid table player in Bellamy is fine, but when you add Pennant to the equation you have 2 mid table players.

Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t against the signing of Bellamy, at £6 mil he is value for money and provides a useful dimension to our attack. But when you top that signing off by signing Pennant for £8 Mil, all of a sudden things don’t look so good.

Both are good mid table players, but good mid table players wont improve last season team which was very strong.

Unfortunately Rafa was pushed into a corner because we didn’t have the Cisse money so we couldn’t sign our first choice in Alves. And there is no way we could go into another season without some sort of option on the right.

At the moment we are trying to integrate a new centre back and left back, a new strike force, and don’t have last seasons left sided option available.

So far the only game where we have played bad is against Sheff Utd.

I’m not worried, I didn’t expect us to challenge for the league this season and expected some lag in results while we integrated a lot of new players, but admittedly I didn’t expect the season to start this bad results wise.

But no doubt we will start getting better results in the coming weeks.

by **Smeg** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:21 pm

southern swindon middle class batards ruined the game in 305 :angry:

by **66-1120597113** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:38 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:1 mid table player in Bellamy is fine, but when you add Pennant to the equation you have 2 mid table players.

Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t against the signing of Bellamy, at £6 mil he is value for money and provides a useful dimension to our attack. But when you top that signing off by signing Pennant for £8 Mil, all of a sudden things don’t look so good.

Both are good mid table players, but good mid table players wont improve last season team which was very strong.

Unfortunately Rafa was pushed into a corner because we didn’t have the Cisse money so we couldn’t sign our first choice in Alves. And there is no way we could go into another season without some sort of option on the right.

At the moment we are trying to integrate a new centre back and left back, a new strike force, and don’t have last seasons left sided option available.

So far the only game where we have played bad is against Sheff Utd.

I’m not worried, I didn’t expect us to challenge for the league this season and expected some lag in results while we integrated a lot of new players, but admittedly I didn’t expect the season to start this bad results wise.

But no doubt we will start getting better results in the coming weeks.

Its not that they are mid table players mate(Pennant and Bellamy)

Both shone like beacons at mid table clubs.But in alll honesty they have both been pretty poor so far this season and in my opinion should be dropped until they prove they have a right to play.Both have showed instances of what they are capable of but just not enough consistancy.

We all need to understand that its a catch 22 situaution for Raffa.What does he do?

Drop £14m worth of new signings to the reserves or bench and shatter their already low confidence.
Or stick by them and give them time to gel into a team that is new and pretty much alien to them...its a tough call.

Dropping a player can either make or break them,it depends on the man!

It was a dismal first half yesterday..we looked like the away team.Second half was better but still not good enough.The finger cannot be pointed at any one player or the manager,things simply are not clicking at the moment.

Another thing i feel is that the rotation policy is not doing the players any good at present.This is obvious.
Certain players,Crouch for example have played outta their skin only to find their a.ss on the bench next game.Its bound to be deflating and players surely feel 'What more have i to do to secure my place'!
In time im sure the players will adapt to Raffas thinking and accept the way things are...them maybe we'll see the Liverpool we all wish for.

I'll be happy with top 3 or 4 and a good run in the C/L its gonna take time to get to the top

by **puroresu** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:59 pm

I would rather of signed Saviola than Bellamy. Bellamy isnt as good as Cisse in my opinion and I dont think he will score as many goals as Cisse did last year.

by **zarababe** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:13 pm

stmichael wrote:The bottom line is, we should've won that game with the amount of possession we had and we created enough chances. Crouch should've scored twice at least in the first half.

We've been margianally above average OVERALL this all season but still should have won just about every game we've played in.

This was exactly my question yesterday (sat), it looked like we had the chances to have won, its not always about putting on a 'great fluent performances', but just winning these games. Where teams pack the midfield and as Jose would say "stand a bus in front of the goal", we've got to put our chances away.

I'm really disappointed, I really believed we would be up there challenging :down:

I believe this team will come good, but clearly so many new players need time to settle, by then it'll likely be too late.

I fully expect this manager to win us the league one day soon. :nod

:

The eternal optimist, I'm not throwing the towel-in, but as someone who always looks for the positives, I'm afraid I too am weigning :upside:

by **red37** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:04 am

to my reckoning the following players have had cause for criticism so far this term. rightly or wrongly its happened.

REINA

FINNAN
CARRAGHER
HYYPIA
RIISE

PENNANT
GERRARD
ALONSO
AURELIO

BELLAMY
CROUCH

to a lesser extent have Sissoko, Gonzalez, Warnock, Garcia and Zenden.

but of those above, that is a whole side. and almost the entire squad! more pertinantly however, they were the actual starting 11 from yesterday. and you'd struggle to single out a top-draw performance to date from most of them. i find it as astounding in equal proportions that, A) there are so many of them who are underperforming and B) why we continue to be so surprised by it.

something clearly is wrong at the club. you cannot say virtually the whole squad has started a new season as poorly as they plainly have done due to anything less. there seriously appears to be cracks appearing for one reason or another...how else can you explain the amount of players up for debate on that list?

or are we just expecting the earth from them. you can go into the greatest depths of debate til the cows come home concerning laying the blame with either 'rotation, formation, permutation or simple alteration. but there is no argument to be questioned regarding Dedication...something that appears to be becoming an issue behind everything else.

there are extremely gifted footballers playing for Liverpool, there usually always has been. but all the ability in the world cant account for having the character necessary in shaping Winners out of those who otherwise are really just pretenders. and its become painfully evident that to be champions of england that not only requires stamina and luck along with technique, it demands 100% commitment and fight when the sh1t hits the fan.

this season is emerging as one of a proving ground in that sense. and unfortunately for me, there are few who can make the grade, for now at least.

with the exceptions of: Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso and Kuyt, possibly Agger, Sissoko and Bellamy. the rest are of insufficient quality to win Liverpool the english premiership imo. european or cup competition maybe. and i see nothing wrong in suggesting that either. somewhere in the table lie the facts. but second or third place is probably the best we can acheive for this years league campaign now. if that.

mentally they look hammered already, what 8 games in. its time to get back to basics and at least throw some points up on the board before things really do become as bleak as you'd be forgiven for understanding reading thread after thread of pessimism. for me well yeah, the red tinted specs are well and truly off now. this could be Rafa's defining hour in terms of how the staff can pull together and bring back the winning mentality they used to display. all is certainly far from lost. but its going to require a gargantuan effort from the entire squad to turn this around quickly enough now.

by **Mannyk** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:37 am

Just a thought. Why doesn't someone just start a sledging thread where every one can just sledge each other .

C'mon guys a bit of harmless banter and debate is ok but no 100 posts out of 300.

Anyway. Just curiuos to see who believes we can still win the title?

?

?

Any optimists out there?

???

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:41 am

Yes.

Me.

by **tel** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:59 am

Riise man of the match IMO. His 2nd half was amazing. He's not the fastest player going around, but he has incredible stamina for mine.

Stevie had a quiet game by his standards. Drifts out of the game too often when playing in the middle.

Aurelio needs more time to adjust to the english game. He looks lost at times.

Pennant shouldnt need time to adjust. He's been in the game long enough to know what to do. Falls over much too easily. I think he's overrated. He's never going to be as much a threat as robben or ronaldo. Compare what Stevie gives us when he plays there to Pennant, or even Riise on the other side, and its clear where we fall down.

Crouch cost us the game. His reactions are way too slow for a striker and he sees opportunities too late. Should have scored in the first half with a simple chance. Blackburn one down dont have the game or personnel to compete at anfield. Fowler, Bellamy or Kuyt would have scored that chance 10 times out of 10. Should have put through Stevie in the 2nd when he put his head down and his captain was racing ahead of him and would have been through on goal. All the stick we gave Baros on here for putting his head down. Crouch is 10 times as bad for not seeing teammates after he's got control of the ball.

Reina's positioning for their goal was appalling. Keepers never come that far off their line unless they can get the ball. He's a shotstopper. He would have saved McCarthy's strike if he'd not been sucked in by the cross.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:15 am

red37 wrote:to my reckoning the following players have had cause for criticism so far this term. rightly or wrongly its happened.

REINA

FINNAN
CARRAGHER
HYYPIA
RIISE

PENNANT
GERRARD
ALONSO
AURELIO

BELLAMY
CROUCH

to a lesser extent have Sissoko, Gonzalez, Warnock, Garcia and Zenden.

but of those above, that is a whole side. and almost the entire squad! more pertinantly however, they were the actual starting 11 from yesterday. and you'd struggle to single out a top-draw performance to date from most of them. i find it as astounding in equal proportions that, A) there are so many of them who are underperforming and B) why we continue to be so surprised by it.

something clearly is wrong at the club. you cannot say virtually the whole squad has started a new season as poorly as they plainly have done due to anything less. there seriously appears to be cracks appearing for one reason or another...how else can you explain the amount of players up for debate on that list?

or are we just expecting the earth from them. you can go into the greatest depths of debate til the cows come home concerning laying the blame with either 'rotation, formation, permutation or simple alteration. but there is no argument to be questioned regarding Dedication...something that appears to be becoming an issue behind everything else.

there are extremely gifted footballers playing for Liverpool, there usually always has been. but all the ability in the world cant account for having the character necessary in shaping Winners out of those who otherwise are really just pretenders. and its become painfully evident that to be champions of england that not only requires stamina and luck along with technique, it demands 100% commitment and fight when the sh1t hits the fan.

this season is emerging as one of a proving ground in that sense. and unfortunately for me, there are few who can make the grade, for now at least.

with the exceptions of: Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso and Kuyt, possibly Agger, Sissoko and Bellamy. the rest are of insufficient quality to win Liverpool the english premiership imo. european or cup competition maybe. and i see nothing wrong in suggesting that either. somewhere in the table lie the facts. but second or third place is probably the best we can acheive for this years league campaign now. if that.

mentally they look hammered already, what 8 games in. its time to get back to basics and at least throw some points up on the board before things really do become as bleak as you'd be forgiven for understanding reading thread after thread of pessimism. for me well yeah, the red tinted specs are well and truly off now. this could be Rafa's defining hour in terms of how the staff can pull together and bring back the winning mentality they used to display. all is certainly far from lost. but its going to require a gargantuan effort from the entire squad to turn this around quickly enough now.

While I understand the point your making, (and to an extent agree)my view is the problem is not so much the fault of the so called "lesser players" as much as the poor form of our stars from previous seasons. Carra, Hyypia, Alonso, Gerrard. None of them have played at anything like the level we have come to expect from them on anything like a consistent basis this season.

These are the rocks on which our team has so often relied. Why they have performed so poorly is open to question. Is it rotation, the WC hangover, training ,or is there dissention in the ranks?

Who would have thought that Gerrard wouldnt have scored yet with all the chances hes had?

Who would have thought Alonso would have problems passing a football?

Who would have thought that we would have so many problems defending crosses with big Sammi in our defence or that Carra would start making mistakes.

Yes other players have performed poorly, but its on these 4 players that we have always looked for inspiration and salvation in the past and until they start to play consistantly to their level I think we will struggle.

The team needs them to show the spirit that has always been synonimous with Liverpool FC, we may lose but we lose fighting not accepting defeat.

COME ON YOU REDS! :buttrock

And yes I am still optimistic (at least until after the game against the Mancs)

by **eds** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:21 am

Fully agree with the comments above by red37, as a team most of our “star” individuals are still NOT playing at their level. Gerrard has not played well since last season, Alonso is still not revving his F1 engine like the champion that he is. Our wingers have been almost non-existent for various reasons and our defence (which was rock solid last year) has been pathetic. To add to this our biggest problem so far has been putting the ball into the back of the net.

I keep reading the same comments, “we need time for the team to gel”, “it looks like it will be 3rd or 4th this year”, etc, etc. Personally I can say that I am gutted. My belief was that this would be OUR year, we would start with a bang and go ALL the way! What a shock it was to see this team go out and deliver such a wimpy performance against Sheffield United and Bolton. I couldn’t care less whether they “were up for it” or that “this was their cup final” we are f\u/c\k/ing LIVERPOOL, the team that should be thumping these kind of nobodies. We still haven’t had a note-worthy 90 minute performance and our away form is starting to look like that of a relegation team, 1 point and 1 goal from 4 games is diabolical.

So where to from here? Personally I have not thrown my hat in the ring this season when saying “our season starts here” as it hasn’t started yet, nor has it looked like it would……BUT the Scum United game will be HUGE, our backs are against the wall and we are facing a team who is scoring for fun. SO THIS IS IT! Rafa knows that this game will make or brake his career at Liverpool, lose and we are gone for yet ANOTHER season, win and we will finally have something that we have been playing without all season…………………………….

BELIEF!

by **Ciggy** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:22 am

Mannyk wrote:Anyway. Just curiuos to see who believes we can still win the title? ? ?

Any optimists out there? ???

Not me we where never in the title race to begin with unfortunatly.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:47 am

It just feels like we are slipping out of gear as soon as we get there. IMO we have the right setup, we're creating plenty of chances, especially in the first 30 mins of games. Our problem is the old chestnut - our strikers are finishing. As soon as that happens suddenly the defence start feeling pressure to keep a clean sheet hoping we'll nick a goal.

Like Arsenal a couple of weeks back I think the Man Utd game on sunday could be a pivotal point in our season. Lose badly and our season will totally fall apart but win and we get that boost we need to build upon and start climbing the league

by **kitster** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:55 am

we'll come good against united,got that feeling,its our biggest game and i can see us doing what the :censored:

did to them.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:57 am

I heard an interview with Ronnie Whelan on a radio station in Ireland on Sat. after the game. He made an interesting point that it's a very, very, very long time since Alonso had an inspiring game for LFC, and because of that, it appears Gerrard is hanging back a bit, and not as inclined to play the style of football we know he can. I'd agree with that. Personally, I don't think Pennant has contributed a whole lot - can't cross a ball, even when he DOES manage to beat A player. Dunno what's up with Finnan these days - I watched him during the past week on international duty and he didn't inspire......Not to sound too pessimistec, but I'm afraid this again will not be our season. The players may indeed be more rested come the end of the season, but by that time, I suspect we'll be so far behind, that the only thing we'll be able to beat Manure, Chelski etc. to, is the top of the check-in queue at the airport !!!

Liverpool FC Forum

LIVERPOOL VS BLACKBURN ROVERS

Who is online