Liverpool FC Forum

[Graeme Noble]

to my reckoning the following players have had cause for criticism so far this term. rightly or wrongly its happened.

REINA

FINNAN
CARRAGHER
HYYPIA
RIISE

PENNANT
GERRARD
ALONSO
AURELIO

BELLAMY
CROUCH

to a lesser extent have Sissoko, Gonzalez, Warnock, Garcia and Zenden.

but of those above, that is a whole side. and almost the entire squad! more pertinantly however, they were the actual starting 11 from yesterday. and you'd struggle to single out a top-draw performance to date from most of them. i find it as astounding in equal proportions that, A) there are so many of them who are underperforming and  B) why we continue to be so surprised by it.

something clearly is wrong at the club. you cannot say virtually the whole squad has started a new season as poorly as they plainly have done due to anything less. there seriously appears to be cracks appearing for one reason or another...how else can you explain the amount of players up for debate on that list?

or are we just expecting the earth from them. you can go into the greatest depths of debate til the cows come home concerning laying the blame with either 'rotation, formation, permutation or simple alteration.  but there is no argument to be questioned regarding Dedication...something that appears to be becoming an issue behind everything else.

there are extremely gifted footballers playing for Liverpool, there usually always has been. but all the ability in the world cant account for having the character necessary in shaping Winners out of those who otherwise are really just pretenders. and its become painfully evident that to be champions of england that not only requires stamina and luck along with technique, it demands 100% commitment and fight when the sh1t hits the fan.

this season is emerging as one of a proving ground in that sense. and unfortunately for me, there are few who can make the grade, for now at least.

with the exceptions of: Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso and Kuyt, possibly Agger, Sissoko and Bellamy. the rest are of insufficient quality to win Liverpool the english premiership imo. european or cup competition maybe. and i see nothing wrong in suggesting that either. somewhere in the table lie the facts.  but second or third place is probably the best we can acheive for this years league campaign now. if that.

mentally they look hammered already, what 8 games in. its time to get back to basics and at least throw some points up on the board before things really do become as bleak as you'd be forgiven for understanding reading thread after thread of pessimism. for me well yeah, the red tinted specs are well and truly off now. this could be Rafa's defining hour in terms of how the staff can pull together and bring back the winning mentality they used to display. all is certainly far from lost. but its going to require a gargantuan effort from the entire squad to turn this around quickly enough now.

Yeah I agree, just players such as Pennant, Crouch ad Zenden, that is quality of mid table/uefa cup team, not for a team who is challenging for the title.

Gerrard, Carragher, Kuyt, Alonso, Sissoko, Bellamy and Agger are maybe Riise, are the only players that have that quality.

[club_Levis]

Spot on Graeme Noble!!!!we still lacking in most areas to challenge for the title. We need creative players esp in the middle of the park to make things happen.The lessor said about Crouch the better.

[Bad Bob]

to my reckoning the following players have had cause for criticism so far this term. rightly or wrongly its happened.

REINA

FINNAN
CARRAGHER
HYYPIA
RIISE

PENNANT
GERRARD
ALONSO
AURELIO

BELLAMY
CROUCH

to a lesser extent have Sissoko, Gonzalez, Warnock, Garcia and Zenden.

but of those above, that is a whole side. and almost the entire squad! more pertinantly however, they were the actual starting 11 from yesterday. and you'd struggle to single out a top-draw performance to date from most of them. i find it as astounding in equal proportions that, A) there are so many of them who are underperforming and  B) why we continue to be so surprised by it.

something clearly is wrong at the club. you cannot say virtually the whole squad has started a new season as poorly as they plainly have done due to anything less. there seriously appears to be cracks appearing for one reason or another...how else can you explain the amount of players up for debate on that list?

or are we just expecting the earth from them. you can go into the greatest depths of debate til the cows come home concerning laying the blame with either 'rotation, formation, permutation or simple alteration.  but there is no argument to be questioned regarding Dedication...something that appears to be becoming an issue behind everything else.

there are extremely gifted footballers playing for Liverpool, there usually always has been. but all the ability in the world cant account for having the character necessary in shaping Winners out of those who otherwise are really just pretenders. and its become painfully evident that to be champions of england that not only requires stamina and luck along with technique, it demands 100% commitment and fight when the sh1t hits the fan.

this season is emerging as one of a proving ground in that sense. and unfortunately for me, there are few who can make the grade, for now at least.

with the exceptions of: Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Alonso and Kuyt, possibly Agger, Sissoko and Bellamy. the rest are of insufficient quality to win Liverpool the english premiership imo. european or cup competition maybe. and i see nothing wrong in suggesting that either. somewhere in the table lie the facts.  but second or third place is probably the best we can acheive for this years league campaign now. if that.

mentally they look hammered already, what 8 games in. its time to get back to basics and at least throw some points up on the board before things really do become as bleak as you'd be forgiven for understanding reading thread after thread of pessimism. for me well yeah, the red tinted specs are well and truly off now. this could be Rafa's defining hour in terms of how the staff can pull together and bring back the winning mentality they used to display. all is certainly far from lost. but its going to require a gargantuan effort from the entire squad to turn this around quickly enough now.

While I understand the point your making, (and to an extent agree)my view is the problem is not so much the fault of the so called "lesser players" as much as the poor form of our stars from previous seasons. Carra, Hyypia, Alonso, Gerrard. None of them have played at anything like the level we have come to expect from them on anything like a consistent basis this season.

These are the rocks on which our team has so often relied. Why they have performed so poorly is open to question. Is it rotation, the WC hangover, training ,or is there dissention in the ranks?

Who would have thought that Gerrard wouldnt have scored yet with all the chances hes had?

Who would have thought Alonso would have problems passing a football?

Who would have thought that we would have so many problems defending crosses with big Sammi in our defence or that Carra would start making mistakes.

Yes other players have performed poorly, but its on these 4 players that we have always looked for inspiration and salvation in the past and until they start to play consistantly to their level I think we will struggle.

The team needs them to show the spirit that has always been synonimous with Liverpool FC, we may lose but we lose fighting not accepting defeat.

COME ON YOU REDS!   

And yes I am still optimistic (at least until after the game against the Mancs)

That's spot on, Saint.  The new lads--Kuyt and Agger aside--haven't hit the heights yet but most of them'll come good.  We've struggled primarily because our veteran players have struggled.  Not one of our big names has had a fantastic start to the campaign and our points tally has suffered for it.

And, I don't think it's down to lack of heart.  Personally, I think it's a result of many factors--a late start to training, international breaks, injuries and, yes, adjustment problems with rotation and tactics--working in tandem. 

Most of all, though, I think the pressure from fans and media to challenge for the title right out of the blocks has weighed heavily on the players' shoulders.  We have always seen better performances from the lads when they are underdogs rather than favourites.  Perhaps too many expectations were created with the notion that we were the one team that could knock Chelsea off their perch?  I think that no matter what happens at OT next weekend, we need to go back to taking one game at a time and looking to get a result and build the momentum.  This constant commentary about whether we are "back in" or "right out of" the title race after each result/non-result is not doing anyone associated with the club--including us fans--any favours.

Oh, and I'm not using this as a total excuse or anything, but it is worth bearing in mind that Saturday's match came on the back of another international break with the away game for our English lads played on the Wednesday rather than the Saturday, again! 

[Bad Bob]

I heard an interview with Ronnie Whelan on a radio station in Ireland on Sat. after the game. He made an interesting point that it's a very, very, very long time since Alonso had an inspiring game for LFC, and because of that, it appears Gerrard is hanging back a bit, and not as inclined to play the style of football we know he can.

Fook me, he was man of the match against Newcastle not one month ago!  It's as though everyone expects Alonso to spray Hollywood balls all over the park for 90 minutes and score from 45 yards before they consider him to have had a good performance, which is utter tosh.  Hell, even football365.com suggested we might have the same problem as England in midfield, with Alonso becoming our own Fat Fwank who does little more than get in Stevie's way.

No question, Gerrard is an immense footballer but he's not been playing particularly well either.  And, that might not be down to Alonso's form or Rafa's tinkering...it might just be down to Steven Gerrard.  He is, after all, the captain and should look to be setting an example by upping his game.

Alonso, like many of our other stars, hasn't top form yet but making him the scapegoat for Stevie's indifferent form is bollox, IMO.

[stmichael]

Once again when debating what went wrong agains Blackburn everyone was called into question other than? Yep you guessed it.

Once again we were subject to a less than average performance from our skipper who was absolutely dominated in midfield and had no fire of passion to his game whatsoever but all I heard was "well he was trying", was he? I didn't see him trying when Savage and Tugay were dominating our midfield. I saw Xabi trying and making the odd clever interception but he is never going to be the all action midfield who crunches into tackles is he? Gerrard on the other hand is supposed to be, so again as I have asked many times this season......

Just where is Steven Gerrard and why is he not accountable like the rest of the team!

[account deleted by request]

Rafa Benitez today called on his senior players to help get Liverpool back to winning ways as he prepares his troops for vital games in Europe and at home in the coming week. 
With a Champions League trip to Bordeaux on Wednesday followed by the big Manchester United clash at Old Trafford, Benitez is well aware of the need to regain top form.
 
In the wake of Saturday's frustrating 1-1 draw with Blackburn, the Reds boss is refusing to panic, however, and admits he can sense light at the end of the tunnel once his key men are firing on all cylinders.
 
"It's clear some of our more established players need to be at the top of their game. I said I thought it would be November before we were at our best because of a number of reasons," said Benitez.
 
"If you look at our formation for the game, we had the same back four, with Xabi in front of the defence, that has done so well for us last season.
 
"We had the same players there, but we need to get the balance right when we are attacking because, like the Galatasaray game, we were vulnerable to counter-attacks.
 
"Saturday was disappointing again, but for 30 minutes of the second half we played much better football, we attacked well and the crowd was really behind us.
 
"The problem is we are only playing like this for 30 minutes now when we know we must do this for 90.
 
"But there were positives from the weekend. It's been difficult, but we will improve. I have confidence because we know we have good players who will start to play better.
 
"Maybe we will have to be more patient. It will take time, but I'm sure we will do it." 
Liverpool TV

Even Rafa agrees with me!

[puroresu]

Rafa Benitez today called on his senior players to help get Liverpool back to winning ways as he prepares his troops for vital games in Europe and at home in the coming week. 
With a Champions League trip to Bordeaux on Wednesday followed by the big Manchester United clash at Old Trafford, Benitez is well aware of the need to regain top form.
 
In the wake of Saturday's frustrating 1-1 draw with Blackburn, the Reds boss is refusing to panic, however, and admits he can sense light at the end of the tunnel once his key men are firing on all cylinders.
 
"It's clear some of our more established players need to be at the top of their game. I said I thought it would be November before we were at our best because of a number of reasons," said Benitez.
 
"If you look at our formation for the game, we had the same back four, with Xabi in front of the defence, that has done so well for us last season.
 
"We had the same players there, but we need to get the balance right when we are attacking because, like the Galatasaray game, we were vulnerable to counter-attacks.
 
"Saturday was disappointing again, but for 30 minutes of the second half we played much better football, we attacked well and the crowd was really behind us.
 
"The problem is we are only playing like this for 30 minutes now when we know we must do this for 90.
 
"But there were positives from the weekend. It's been difficult, but we will improve. I have confidence because we know we have good players who will start to play better.
 
"Maybe we will have to be more patient. It will take time, but I'm sure we will do it." 
Liverpool TV

Even Rafa agrees with me!

I totally accept that it could be November before the side reaches top form however before then it’s important the side stays in touch with everyone else and we haven’t really done that.  Chelsea have not hit top form and have plenty left in the tank yet they are winning.  That’s what championship winning sides do.   

I’m not convinced Bellamy and Pennant add enough to the side for us to really challenge.  You look at Arsenal who lost Cole but got Gallas and before that whole saga they only signed one player yet rosicky is top quality and instantly improved the side.

[Sabre]

Sorry to reach late, I didn't feel in the mood nor had the time to watch the game properly.

This time I've watched the game with pauses, in order to make comments when I see something commentable.

Sometimes when we see a game as a whole we tend to be biased by the score, or a latter goal, or something.


FIRST HALF.

Min 4. If I where Rafa I'd be angry, two good opportunities of Blackburn, it was off side yes, but those were tight ones. Didn't like Hyppia on those two chances.

Min 14. Apart from a dangerous back pass from Riise to Reina, we're controlling the game and reaching with clearness to the area. Gerrard appeared well in the box with a header effort, Crouch was unlucky not to score in a ball
that was saved just in the line, and another good opportunity from the right: Gerrard to Crouch, this hold the ball, passed to Pennant, some our men including Gerrard that went up waiting in the box, good cross, but Crouch didn't
shoot well as the ball came. Should have scored in one of those 3 chances. Some good stuff from Alonso so far.

Min 16. Goal of Blackburn. A chain of mistakes. The play started by a dispossesion
of the ball of Pennant, possible handball of the oponent.

Someone cleared in the middle. Fabio Aurelio didn't press well, as he did it alone, Gerrard didn't reach to press in time so that pressure of those two players was futile. The ball went to the right. Riise was caught out of position, so was
Hyppia in the middle of no where.

Cross, mistake of Carraguer, Finnan didn't reach the bounced ball (can't blame him too much)
. They didn't forgive, we did. I was quite surprised to see most of the danger  came from the right with solid
players like Fabio Aurelio and Riise, but it happened.

The commentator said that Reina was undecided. I think that he could never go for the ball
to the border of the area, and he could not stay in his line, he seemed to be undecided because
of his body language, as he did not expect the ball wasn't cleared by Carra.

Cannot blame him

Min 41. After the goal we were a bit touched and shocked. We seemed nervous. Specially Hyppia, who lost
several balls trying to pass difficult balls. I have to give some credit to Blackburn, they didn't sit deep
after their goal and pressed well up in the pitch, we were quite cráp from min 20 to 30 though.

The injury in their goalie stopped the game and we recovered some of our stuff.

Pennant is getting some criticism
this days, but I think that's a bit unfair. Yes, sometimes he runs with the ball too far away of positions that
create danger, but he'll improve that, and when he does it, we'll appreciate his dribbling and *excellent* crossing

He's a classic right winger, a player a la Xabi Prieto. Makes some good runs, the dissapear some minutes (recover breath).
Provides a good amount of crosses, provokes yellow cards and gets corners.

That's his function, and in that sense he's
giving me what I expected. Of course he has to improve.

I end this first half, mildly confident to draw the game, not to sure to win
it -perhaps it's that I know the score -
but Blackburn did their job well


SECOND HALF

Min 50.

Blackburn made clear they were not going to defend their result. Neill warned
again with  a range effort, and
they've tried to reach our area.

Benitez wasn't as patient as me with Pennant. Pennant made a big mistake, he
ran with the ball and dribbled with 4 mates on front of him and
didn't deliver the ball, he was dispossesed and it was a dangerous ball to
lose. Inmediatly after that Rafa calls Luis Garcia,
it was obvius to me who was going to be the change. Setanta commentator said
that if you're going to make a sub in min 50, you
should do it at half time, and he's right, but that was a punnishment, I think
in normal circunstamces he would have made it at
min 60-65.

In min 48 it has appeared something I missed in the first half, as I heard
fields of Anfield Road for the first time. Anfield
seem to be less noisy than usual today.


Min 55

Penalty of Hyppia over McCarthy? probably not. But it was clumsy of Hyppia to
do that, he should have known better. The commentator
said "oh there's contact", I say contact is not enough. McCarthy has been in
the liga and as soon as he felt Hyppia behind and the contact
he fell. It was not a penalty, but it was a naive thing to do of Hyypia. If he
encounters a La Liga ref in Europe, he might not be that
lucky.

Anfield starts to support more consistently. The team will be grateful. Riise
apart from the goal, has done a decent match so far. I'm liking
Alonso today.

Min 60 or so

Goal of Bellamy!!!! Sabre is already tired of stopping the video
everytime and probably won't do that again. It's a very long post already

After the goal we had a momentum that we didn't materialize in another goal. Then controlled the game but we were a bit
anxious.

All in all, we have won many times playing worse than this, but
this time we forgave our chances where as the oposition didn't.

Rafa will probably be angry with some of the mistakes we have
seen, specially in the centre backs.[B]

[red37]

you'd put Guillem Balague to shame sabre lad