Liverpool FC Forum

by **bunglemark2** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:53 pm

Ciggy wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Where was that thn Ciggy ? It's not on the website; not on any of the newspaper sites...is there a credible source from the club who came on air on local radio and let the news out ?
I'm interested to know 'cos I don't get liverpool radio in my part of the world.....

Im going to sound like Lakes now, it was on 5 live and talksport

He has gone Bungle the lawyers are disscussing the severance packet, Rafa is in Sardinia on holiday last night they had a meeting at Anfield, Purslow, Hicks & Gillet via video conference, Nash and Ayes and made the decision to sack Rafa.

Broughton was NOT at the meeting.

Ta hun..
Just listened to the podcast on Talksport....pretty grim listening....
Worrying to hear the thoughts on Torres moving...

by **dawson99** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:56 pm

No one knows who sacked him, what the players think etc etc

All we know is it lokos like hes going

by **kazza** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:05 pm

dawson99 wrote:No one knows who sacked him, what the players think etc etc

All we know is it lokos like hes going

Yet you keep telling us how the players do not want to play for him

by **tubby** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:05 pm

Without Rafa we wouldn't even have gotten players like Torres, Pepe, Xabi or Mascherano and people think we are better off without him? :laugh:

He has been treated unfairly. 1 bad season and that's what he gets? Ill ask a question I saw on another forum. What treatment would Shanks have gotten if he had the same record as Rafa in as many years?

Here is the full piece by Ballague.

Rafa exit not a consequence of player power

03/06/2010

Now it has become clear that the club no longer want Rafa Benitez at Anfield, there are a couple of issues that need clearing up...

Rafa decided last week to move the situation forward when he told me – for an article published in The Daily Mirror – that he wanted to stay. He put forward his reasons for lowering expectations and defended his good record at the club. However, the warning was there; that he would stay, “if he`s allowed”. He hasn`t been allowed, and the club feels the situation has stagnated.

Rafa told me he would love to stay but there were many obstacles. I have the impression that he had a clear idea that not everybody at the club backed him and many were happy to leave him out there in the firing line to take the blame for a disappointing and frustrating season – instead of them admitting that the team`s results were the consequence of a club that had the financial resources to enter the race in a family hatchback - but wanted the results of a Ferrari - But Rafa was NOT talking about the players at the club.

So, is player power behind all of this, as many are reporting? I think it is more a case of club power: people within the club hierarchy have decided there is no point in keeping the manager and he is the easy option to take the blame.

The reports of a complete breakdown in his relationship with key players are false. For example, Rafa called Steven Gerrard on the player`s birthday last Sunday and the pair chatted for 20 minutes.

If Gerrard is seriously thinking about a move it is not because of Rafa, but because there have been so many promises unfulfilled by the people running the club and the Liverpool captain may feel that he must go elsewhere in order to compete for titles. For an elite player, like Gerrard, titles define a career and he has given most of his professional life to Liverpool – understandably he is thinking about a move because the club is not moving in the right direction.

Gerrard has four offers from English clubs and there have been conversations with Real Madrid. Mourinho would love to work with either Lampard or Gerrard and if Mourinho convinces the Real Madrid president to fund a move, then an offer will be made for one of them. Gerrard has not conspired against Rafa even though it is quite likely that the long relationship between them had become professional. I have said before that, in my opinion, the intensive methods of Rafa, means that his squads need to be recycled regularly - every 2-3 years - for their full potential to be realised.

But reports of the distance between Rafa and his players have been grossly exaggerated – granted, he is not their best friend either, but that was not the ultimate reason for his departure. When Ryan Babel suffered an injury scare last week that threatened his place in the Dutch World Cup squad, Rafa was on the phone to him immediately to give him support.

It is true that certain players who do not feature regularly for the first team are not all entirely happy – but that is normal under any manager at any club – and it requires a huge leap of imagination to say that unhappiness brings conspiracies against the manager. The impression I am getting from key players is that they hate the idea of people thinking it was a player power versus Benitez – rather a frustration at a 7th placed finish and 4 years without a trophy and the growing sense that unless there are changes – at all levels – little will change.

My own view is that, in hindsight, if Benitez had focused all of his resources on winning the Premier League instead of trying to challenge for the cup competitions as well, maybe his story at Liverpool would have been different: delivering a league title at Anfield given the circumstances and resources of the club at the moment would have given him a huge amount of credit with the club, fans and media.

However, as he admitted to me in his last interview as Liverpool manager, during his six years at Liverpool, Manchester have United averaged 83 points a season, Chelsea 77.8 and Arsenal 77 - and in two of those seasons Liverpool have broken their all time record points tally - 82 points in 2006 and 86 in 2009. Yet even that appears to have not been enough.

So what`s next?

Reaching a severance agreement will not be easy. Rafa will remain in holiday in Sardinia while the lawyers do the talking - and the £3 million being offered might not be enough…

Benitez` best option was Juventus: he did consider it, but was never entirely convinced because he felt there was a chance to stay and finish the job at Anfield. Inter Milan is the most likely option, but taking on the job of managing a club with an ageing squad that has just won everything is not a challenge many would relish.

-------------

Now you can all say what you think about that, we don't know the truth blah blah blah but we all know Ballague is always spot on in his articles.

This is nothing more than a nail in the coffin for Liverpool Football Club. Last one out switch the lights off please...

by **stmichael** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:07 pm

Honestly, can somebody tell me where this Roy Hodgson love in has come from? He's had one half decent season in a Cup competition where they significantly overachieved. His side finished below Stoke and Blackburn last season and could barely buy a point away from home.

by **Owzat** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:08 pm

dawson99 wrote:
shawnk wrote:
stmichael wrote:I wonder how long those who wanted Rafa out will give the next manager before they get on his back aswell?

I will give him at least 3 years to improve things (not moving from 2nd to 7th place) whether he looks decent like Rafa or some cocky Mourinho.

well we gave Rafa 6 years.. hardly a QPR job!!!

and i think we got something in the pipeline, we wouldnt sack Rafa unless we had something in place...right?

I think most managers have had a fair crack of the whip, relative to their success. Evans was perhaps unlucky having done little wrong, but like Rafa, did he have what it takes to win the league? Problem is by the time we'd had patience with three managers the money was so big and the job too difficult.

Souness (157 games) : 16/04/91 - 28/01/94
Evans (226 games) : 31/01/94 - 12/11/98
Houllier (307 games) : 12/11/98 - 24/05/04
Benitez (328 games) : 16/06/04 - 03/06/04 (?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Liverpool_F.C._managers

Last two managers have had plenty of time to build the squad, both floundered after the season they finished 2nd instead of building on it. Houllier lived off his treble, Rafa lives off Istanbul. But if 300+ games isn't long enough without a league title then what is?!?!? 500+ ? 600+ ? As long as he wants??!?!?

It isn't just our league position, it was overall that we were exposed, losing 19 games is dreadful (about 1 in 3) Struggling to score goals in cup competitions typified out season so much so that for 10+ cup games we hadn't score more than one goal

LEAGUE CUP

LEE 0-1 LIV
ARS 2-1 LIV

FA CUP

REA 1-1 LIV
LIV 1-2 REA (aet)

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

LIV 1-0 DEB
FIO 2-0 LIV
LIV 1-2 LYO
LYO 1-1 LIV
DEB 0-1 LIV
LIV 1-2 FIO

EURO DISNEY LEAGUE

LIV 1-0 UNI
UNI 1-3 LIV
LIL 1-0 LIV
LIV 3-0 LIL
BEN 2-1 LIV
LIV 4-1 BEN
ATL 1-0 LIV
LIV 2-1 ATL

Just THREE times in EIGHTEEN games did we score more than one goal in cup competitions against some pretty ordinary opposition like Championship strugglers Reading, League One Leeds, 'thumped by everyone else' Debrecen, eventually found out by our away losses which we suffered in the EDL until such a point we couldn't turn it around.

Patience is only worth the wait if it ends with something worth waiting for. With Rafa I reckon he'd die of old age or a heart attack before he won the league

by **dawson99** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:12 pm

kazza wrote:
dawson99 wrote:No one knows who sacked him, what the players think etc etc

All we know is it lokos like hes going

Yet you keep telling us how the players do not want to play for him

Yeah, its conjecture, it's a forum not gospel. What I was trying to illustrate was that everyone is making sh!t up at the moment, pros and antis alike.

by **dawson99** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:13 pm

bavlondon wrote:Without Rafa we wouldn't even have gotten players like Torres, Pepe, Xabi or Mascherano and people think we are better off without him?

We could also say we wouldnt have had players like :

Keane, Morientez, Pennant, Babel, (there are a lot more bad than good players dude)

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:14 pm

stmichael wrote:Honestly, can somebody tell me where this Roy Hodgson love in has come from? He's had one half decent season in a Cup competition where they significantly overachieved. His side finished below Stoke and Blackburn last season and could barely buy a point away from home.

Neither could we away from home.

Not that i am saying lets go get Roy like.

by **tubby** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:18 pm

Owzat wrote:
dawson99 wrote:
shawnk wrote:
stmichael wrote:I wonder how long those who wanted Rafa out will give the next manager before they get on his back aswell?

I will give him at least 3 years to improve things (not moving from 2nd to 7th place) whether he looks decent like Rafa or some cocky Mourinho.

well we gave Rafa 6 years.. hardly a QPR job!!!

and i think we got something in the pipeline, we wouldnt sack Rafa unless we had something in place...right?

I think most managers have had a fair crack of the whip, relative to their success. Evans was perhaps unlucky having done little wrong, but like Rafa, did he have what it takes to win the league? Problem is by the time we'd had patience with three managers the money was so big and the job too difficult.

Souness (157 games) : 16/04/91 - 28/01/94
Evans (226 games) : 31/01/94 - 12/11/98
Houllier (307 games) : 12/11/98 - 24/05/04
Benitez (328 games) : 16/06/04 - 03/06/04 (?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Liverpool_F.C._managers

Last two managers have had plenty of time to build the squad, both floundered after the season they finished 2nd instead of building on it. Houllier lived off his treble, Rafa lives off Istanbul. But if 300+ games isn't long enough without a league title then what is?!?!? 500+ ? 600+ ? As long as he wants??!?!?

It isn't just our league position, it was overall that we were exposed, losing 19 games is dreadful (about 1 in 3) Struggling to score goals in cup competitions typified out season so much so that for 10+ cup games we hadn't score more than one goal

LEAGUE CUP

LEE 0-1 LIV
ARS 2-1 LIV

FA CUP

REA 1-1 LIV
LIV 1-2 REA (aet)

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

LIV 1-0 DEB
FIO 2-0 LIV
LIV 1-2 LYO
LYO 1-1 LIV
DEB 0-1 LIV
LIV 1-2 FIO

EURO DISNEY LEAGUE

LIV 1-0 UNI
UNI 1-3 LIV
LIL 1-0 LIV
LIV 3-0 LIL
BEN 2-1 LIV
LIV 4-1 BEN
ATL 1-0 LIV
LIV 2-1 ATL

Just THREE times in EIGHTEEN games did we score more than one goal in cup competitions against some pretty ordinary opposition like Championship strugglers Reading, League One Leeds, 'thumped by everyone else' Debrecen, eventually found out by our away losses which we suffered in the EDL until such a point we couldn't turn it around.

Patience is only worth the wait if it ends with something worth waiting for. With Rafa I reckon he'd die of old age or a heart attack before he won the league

This is all irrelevant as the real problem is the owners. Supposing we manage to convince another decent continental manager to step in. What are we going to buy new players with? Magic beans?

by **laza** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:18 pm

Yeah stats are great but I really dont see how you compare this decade to the 90s. Whether people like or not big money that bankrolled Chelsea and now Man City makes for far different landscape then one Roy or Souness were operating in.

I thanked Ged for the treble but was happy to see how him as go as it was obivous we could no further with him in charge
For Rafa its different, as Bav said one poor season and level of hate has been frankly quite amazing.
I really do think this will take us further away from Holy Grail if/when he does go.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:20 pm

Thommo is coming on now http://www.talksport.net/mediapl....roll=on

by **tubby** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:21 pm

laza wrote:Yeah stats are great but I really dont see how you compare this decade to the 90s. Whether people like or not big money that bankrolled Chelsea and now Man City makes for far different landscape then one Roy or Souness were operating in.

I thanked Ged for the treble but was happy to see how him as go as it was obivous we could no further with him in charge
For Rafa its different, as Bav said one poor season and level of hate has been frankly quite amazing.
I really do think this will take us further away from Holy Grail if/when he does go.

If we carry on the way we are then in a few years our target will be a top half finish. And that's not even assuming we go into administration.

by **mkingdom** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:22 pm

Dalglish seems the logical choice, (I didn't say best), but one saving grace is the respect that Torres and Gerrard have for him may encourage them to stick around for a year until we oust the Yank muppets, and get an owner that we don't want to set on fire.

Sammy Lee to stay as assistant.

This option is cheap, has the sentimental element to appease (most) fans, and he has been inside the club recently so will know the real story of what is going on.

Not saying this is what I want....just what makes mose sense.

The arguments for Rafa staying or going are irrelevant now. He is clearly no longer wanted and will leave.

by **Reg** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:22 pm

Wild isnt it... we sit here wondering what are options are and I dont see any. We're more focused on who/what we might lose rather than what we might gain. First time in 60 years I reckon?

I really worry about this T&T / Broughton / Purslow team.... I dont see a single one of them with LFC at heart.

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