Liverpool FC Forum

by **shawnk** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:27 pm

I would be amazed with the level of biasness if people think Insua is actually better than Riise.

by **neil** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:49 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
neil wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:Not many, 4 max - Torres, Mascherano, Agger and Johnson

well I guess the smileys have put that one to bed

jesus wept.

by **neil** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:50 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
teamleader1 wrote:
parchpea wrote:As the owners are trying to flog the club they will just hang on to Benitez rather than shell out the cash to get shut of him. Makes sense for them to do that and they just cant be arsed getting involved. At this point they dont care what happens on the management side so long as they dont have to put their hands in their pockets. As it looks like Benitez isnt wanted by another club (shock horror) and no one wants to buy our club then we are stuck with him for now so may as well just try and forget it and move on. Nothing we can do unfortunately. Problem is even if we where lucky enough to have Arab money pouring in there is not a single footballer we could buy that is more important than the managerial appointment. That job is the biggest and most vital at any football club. Get that wrong, or you dont nake the right choices at the right times you have had it, I dont care what money you give them to spend. Its my beleif that even with riches beyond our wildest dreams Benitez would still fail in his quest because under any circumstances he just hasnt got it and even the biggest transfer budget on earth wouldnt change that.

Sadly thats the truth of the matter.

The scary thing for me is that given another season Rafa will have us turned into bona fide cannon fodder for the top sides and an EL spot will be spun by him as a FANTASTIC achievement considering the intolerable conditions he has to work under
BUT he will continue because he loves the club and the fans so much
The one person my money would be on to do a runner if next season flops is Rafa
He may not be the owner of the circus we have turned into
But he is definitely the ring master

The sooner we get shut the better

agreed.

by **mart** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:51 pm

teamleader1 wrote:Only a plonker would be daft enough to support the biggest load of shyte EVER served up at Anfield in the name of football.

Lol this forum is beyond a joke now.

by **teamleader1** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:20 pm

mart wrote:
teamleader1 wrote:Only a plonker would be daft enough to support the biggest load of shyte EVER served up at Anfield in the name of football.

Lol this forum is beyond a joke now.

As is the Shyte being churned out by Rafa :eyebrow

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue May 18, 2010 12:38 am

Greavesie wrote:
*_Ruthless_* wrote:Should have Kept Riise, Hamann, Sissoko, Alonso, Garcia and Crouch and never bought Ngog, Lucas, and Dossena.

Squad would have been pretty decent then ... Obviously we wouldn't have had money to spend without selling anyone but its nice to dream.

Riise is no improvement on what we have IMO, if I remember Riise's last season, he wasn't really up to scratch at all

Hamann is 36 now, 32/33 when we sold him?

Garcia and Benny are very similar - Benny is the better of the two

Sissoko couldnt pass the ball two yards, and we had Masch

I agree about Crouch and obviously Alonso

Dossena was poo

and while I'm at it, Morientes didnt cut it, Keane didn't, Hyypia was old (albeit class), Kewell was a crock, Baros was pants and Cisse was a bit of a twonk

Thats probably why ER posted smileys as a response n all

I guess it depends on the comparisons, you've been quite selective to make a point. Do you work for a red top?

No way is Garcia more influencial than benayoun, let's compare important contributions to judge that one.

Riise over any left back we had since.

Apart from Torres, our strikers are gash. I'd have back any of Cisse, Crouch, Morientes, Keane because they have class unlike Ngog, Kuyt and Babel.

Kewell was injury prone but BY FAR the best left midfielder at the club since Barnes in terms of raw quality.

And the biggest problem was Rafa considered Barry better than Alonso. Enough so to risk the entire midfield over, knowing full well he couldn't afford to slip up once he mugged off Alonso.

by **Emerald Red** » Tue May 18, 2010 6:30 am

I like the way people will gurn about players who we had previous to some of the so called "lesser" players we have playing for us now in respective positions as if there were absolutely no other circumstances at play other than Rafa giving them the boot in favour of said "lesser" player.

"Oh, he shouldn't have let Hamman go (aye, and still be doing a job in the middle to this day

)."
"Should have resigned Owen"
"Should have kept Riise (who couldn't use his right boot to clear a bread and butter ball into the box)"
"Shoulda kept Finnan"

Wha wha wha!

Players come and players leave. That's a fact of football. Another fact of football is that players age and players form can drop with either age or a change in system. If you that are spouting the coulda, shoulda, woulda want to go down that path, then I might as well say that we shouldn't have let Fowler go. F*ck, while we're at it, we should never have let John Barnes go and Jan Molbey. They could still be doing a job for us now, right?

by **Greavesie** » Tue May 18, 2010 7:31 am

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
*_Ruthless_* wrote:Should have Kept Riise, Hamann, Sissoko, Alonso, Garcia and Crouch and never bought Ngog, Lucas, and Dossena.

Squad would have been pretty decent then ... Obviously we wouldn't have had money to spend without selling anyone but its nice to dream.

Riise is no improvement on what we have IMO, if I remember Riise's last season, he wasn't really up to scratch at all

Hamann is 36 now, 32/33 when we sold him?

Garcia and Benny are very similar - Benny is the better of the two

Sissoko couldnt pass the ball two yards, and we had Masch

I agree about Crouch and obviously Alonso

Dossena was poo

and while I'm at it, Morientes didnt cut it, Keane didn't, Hyypia was old (albeit class), Kewell was a crock, Baros was pants and Cisse was a bit of a twonk

Thats probably why ER posted smileys as a response n all

I guess it depends on the comparisons, you've been quite selective to make a point. Do you work for a red top?

No way is Garcia more influencial than benayoun, let's compare important contributions to judge that one.

Riise over any left back we had since.

Apart from Torres, our strikers are gash. I'd have back any of Cisse, Crouch, Morientes, Keane because they have class unlike Ngog, Kuyt and Babel.

Kewell was injury prone but BY FAR the best left midfielder at the club since Barnes in terms of raw quality.

And the biggest problem was Rafa considered Barry better than Alonso. Enough so to risk the entire midfield over, knowing full well he couldn't afford to slip up once he mugged off Alonso.

I havent been selective, I've included every player you listed bar Kromkamp

Like I said I agree on Crouch but that may have more to do with the quality of strikers at the club rather than him actually being a great player

Keeping Kewell is a non starter as well

Like Ste says above, players age, players move on, hindsights easy but I bet at the time you advocated half the players being sold

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Tue May 18, 2010 8:02 am

Talks already underway between Inter Milan and Liverpool boss Benitez

by **bigmick** » Tue May 18, 2010 8:27 am

It would make interesting viewing if Benitez did end up going to Inter (he won't). Then you'd get a good look at how he compares to their previous managers (it's increasingly looking like he or anyone else might have a fairly difficult act to follow this season).It would be even more interesting if we swapped managers with them to get a direct comparison (we won't).

No, those who say we are stuck with him are on the money. The worse part about it is, even Benitez won't make as much of a nonsense of it next season as he has this. I expect us to have a bigger gap than 13 points to Blackburn at the end of next season, and be more than two points ahead of Everton. We might even jump a place or two in the league (I don't think we'll get in the top four though), which will cause the apologists and real fans to spout off for months about "progress".

Perhaps that was the cunning plan, nosedive us into oblivion which enables you to "improve" us over the next couple of years. In another couple of seasons we'll be back challenging for the top four, and by then the faithful will be singing "Montse is a scouser, Montse is a scouser, Nah nah nah nah, OOOOh". Let's see, another couple of seasons on from now, feck me I can see another five year plan looming on the horizon :laugh:

.

by **Owzat** » Tue May 18, 2010 8:35 am

phil_cool wrote:I agree we havent been helped by injuries, but even when at full strength we have an over- reliance on fast breakaway football rather than breaking teams down with the variety and subtlety of our passing. Once our saviour 'Jesus' Aquilani is fit all our problems will disappear as if by some miracle?

Premiership Appearances 08/09 vs 09/10

+7 Mascherano : 27 in 08/09, 34 in 09/10
+7 Babel : 18 in 08/09, 25 in 09/10 (+1 goal)
+7 Degen : 0 in 08/09, 7 in 09/10
+5 Agger : 18 in 08/09, 23 in 09/10
+2 Gerrard : 31 in 08/09, 33 in 09/10 (-7 goals)
+/- 0 Reina : 38 in 08/09, 38 in 09/10
-1 Carragher : 38 in 08/09, 37 in 09/10
-1 Kuyt : 38 in 08/09, 37 in 09/10 (-3 goals)
-2 Torres : 24 in 08/09, 22 in 09/10 (+4 goals)
-2 Benayoun : 32 in 08/09, 30 in 09/10 (-2 goals)
-2 Skrtel : 21 in 08/09, 19 in 09/10

Hyypia played 15 times last season, Kyrgiakos 14 times this season, both scoring once in the league

Alonso played 33 times last season, Lucas 35 times this season.

Arbeloa played 29 times last season, Johnson played 25 times.

It's hard or unfair to compare some of the others, Keane was here for half a season and so N'Gog's comparitive appearances will be distorted. Riera fell out of favour, Insua wasn't first choice LB last season (and we had three not two)

So the point of the list? Shows most of our players who would have been starters this season and played either more games or within spitting distance of the same number of games this season as last. Benayoun, Torres, Carra, Gerrard, Mascherano and Agger would be in a lot of people's "best teams". Neither Lucas nor Kuyt who played over 30 league games this season were injured (much at all)

Carra played one less game this season because of suspension. Skrtel isn't automatic first choice, Insua is uninspiring and plenty love to slate Kuyt. Aquilani was injured when he arrived, used sparingly when fit so people should have known he wouldn't be notching up lots of appearances. So who was injured that would have turned our season? Torres most will be thinking if not saying, but he missed nearly as much of last season as this. I suppose the main difference is last season we missed out on the league title because of his injury, we missed out on the CL because of it this :Oo:

He even scored more goals in fewer games this season, Gerrard chipped in with a lot less goals.

Of course the fact that we saw a few red cards this season and our opponents saw a lot last has nothing to do with our relative placings, that and we had a fair few bits of luck and a few late goals that were noticable by their absence this season. All we're doing is what other fans do, latch onto a convenient excuse no matter how much fact there is behind it. You get injuries, noone seems to be noting how many injuries other teams get, but then they don't do "net spends" for other teams or "bad luck" counts either, or indeed knock prices down to initial fees and clauses :no

So in truth we're no better than mancs who still b*tch about the offside Chelsea goal but disregard the handball that got them their goal

Maybe the truth is injuries were no more or less prevalent this season as last, maybe the truth is we swapped Johnson and Aquilani for Arbeloa and Alonso, didn't get red cards or late goals working for us as well as last season and maybe the ultimate truth is the players didn't perform consistently enough.

Premiership 08/09 vs 09/10

Goals scored : 08/09 77-61 09/10
Goals conceded : 08/09 27-35 09/10
Clean sheets : 08/09 20-17 09/10
Games won : 08/09 25-18 09/10
Games lost : 08/09 2-11 09/10

08/09

0 goals : P6 W0 D5 L1 F0 A2 PTS 5 (Won 0.00%)
1 goal : P9 W4 D4 L1 F9 A6 PTS 16 (Won 44.44%)
2+ goals : P23 W21 D2 L0 F68 A19 PTS 65 (Won 91.30%)

09/10

0 goals : P11 W0 D5 L6 F0 A9 PTS 5 (Won 0.00%)
1 goal : P9 W2 D2 L5 F9 A14 PTS 8 (Won 22.22%)
2+ goals : P18 W16 D2 L0 F52 A12 PTS 50 (Won 88.88%)

In both seasons 75%+ of our points came when we scored two or more goals. We won just two of TWENTY games we scored one or less goals in in 09/10, last season we won four out of 15 and lost only two compared to ELEVEN this season.

And Chelsea's results by goals scored for comparison with this season and last for us

09/10

0 goals : P1 W0 D1 L0 F0 A0 PTS 1 (Won 0.00%)
1 goal : P10 W2 D3 L5 F10 A14 PTS 12 (Won 25.00%)
2+ goals : P27 W25 D1 L1 F93 A18 PTS 76 (Won 92.59%)

In fairness the mancs in 08/09 matched our 18 games this season where they scored 2+ goals, but with a 100% win record. They won TEN games 1-0 compared to Chelsea's two this season

by **lakes10** » Tue May 18, 2010 9:05 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:Talks already underway between Inter Milan and Liverpool boss Benitez

yep.......but keep in mind that SSN were the first to bring this news a few days ago.....it come from Rafas Agent.

by **Ciggy** » Tue May 18, 2010 10:45 am

bigmick wrote:by then the faithful will be singing "Montse is a scouser, Montse is a scouser, Nah nah nah nah, OOOOh". Let's see, another couple of seasons on from now, feck me I can see another five year plan looming on the horizon .

Out of order that, the woman runs a charity shop that she works in for nothing does everything for the Lilly centre, her and Rafa do all sorts for charity and people with cancer I find your snide joke out of order, no matter what gripes you have with rafa they do a lot of good things behind the scenes like buy mini buses for handicapped children etc.

by **NANNY RED** » Tue May 18, 2010 10:57 am

And thats the problem Cigg loads cant see past there wanting rid so bad the snide remarks come in , As i said in my original post Motse is a scouser and has told Rafa she not going nowhere , She loves it here and so do the kids . This is here city and the people are her kind of people. The buy a brick campaign work she does has raised thousands for the people suffering in this city ,
If i tell my other half im not going nowhere and me and the kids are made up were we are then he has to listen , simple

by **tubby** » Tue May 18, 2010 11:11 am

Well in Rafa.

Benitez aims to land ‘Best of British’

RAFA BENITEZ today promised Liverpool will continue to pursue a “Best of British” transfer policy whenever possible this summer as they begin the task of rebuilding.

The Reds swooped to sign hot prospect Jonjo Shelvey – who has played for England at a number of youth levels – last month from Charlton Athletic in a £1.7m deal.

They are also close to wrapping up a move for Glasgow Rangers defender Danny Wilson, a move that looks all the more shrewd after he was named Scotland’s Young Player of the Year.

In the past, Benitez has been criticised for favouring the foreign transfer market and not giving home-grown players the opportunity to show they are good enough to play for Liverpool.

Benitez, however, has defended his policy and has made it clear he would be happy to chase deals for English players – as long as the right option comes along.

“It is something that we have always tried to do,” he said. “We tried to sign Gareth Barry, we did the same with (Glen) Johnson. That was always the idea.

“We have tried to bring in British players with the right mentality and the passion for the club.

“We want them to know what it means to play for Liverpool Football Club.

“Shelvey is an addition like that. We are trying to do what is best for the club. We have a long-term plan in place and we try to follow that.”

Benitez, meanwhile, has not lost faith in Liverpool’s squad and is confident they will show their true colours next season.

“This team has good players and we have a good team,” adds Benitez. “We just had too many problems, too many injuries. We also had some difficulty dealing with expectation that everyone was thinking about us at the beginning of the season.”

Steven Gerrard, meanwhile, has switched in to World Cup mode and he is dreaming there will be a glorious conclusion to England’s adventure in South Africa.

Gerrard, Johnson and Jamie Carragher joined up with the majority of Fabio Capello’s initial 30-man squad for altitude training in Austria yesterday and he has stressed togetherness is key if England are to flourish.

“For us to be successful in the summer, everyone needs to stick together – the players, the management and the supporters,” said Gerrard.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpo....6468556

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