Liverpool FC Forum

by **Number 9** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:36 pm

Im worried about this game bigtime now!We have hardly been firing on all cylinders with our "Big 2" but now without them its gonna be soooo much tougher!
Bent and Jones are in fantastic form and our defence is way below par...gonna be tough!

BUT remember last year when we were without them both and on occasion the players that came in gave 100%,played some great football and got results.....Hopefully this is the case tomorrow!

3 points a must,its only UTD next in the League!

by **NANNY RED** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:57 pm

Im fumin tbh , Stevie had the chance to come home an be sorted by our staff but he decided to stay an train with fecking Enguland, Torres trained an all, im sorry but Rafa should get into both of them big time, We pay there wages not there countries, Even Kuyt was carryin a knock an he played , an came off injured . :censored:

livid here , Javier an Insuas heads are gonna be still in South America, But in my opinion Javier has to play, id stick Yossi in the whole behind feck knows , Sunderland are a decent side this season an im not afraid to say me a.rse has gone, Gutted completly

by **Fowler_E7** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:01 pm

this donst look good, weve been struggling badly this season as it is, god knows how we will fair without our two best players! not feeling confident at all now. We still have enough to beat Sunderland but if Gerrard and Torres are injured for a sustained period were ruined

by **tubby** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:15 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Im fumin tbh , Stevie had the chance to come home an be sorted by our staff but he decided to stay an train with fecking Enguland, Torres trained an all, im sorry but Rafa should get into both of them big time, We pay there wages not there countries, Even Kuyt was carryin a knock an he played , an came off injured . livid here , Javier an Insuas heads are gonna be still in South America, But in my opinion Javier has to play, id stick Yossi in the whole behind feck knows , Sunderland are a decent side this season an im not afraid to say me a.rse has gone, Gutted completly

Nail on the head. I cannot stand it when our players :censored:

of to play for countries that do not even pay their wages. I'm not anti patriotic or anything but this is just taking the :censored:

now. I hope both players are feeling guilty, especially if we drop points.

by **stmichael** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:23 pm

anyone else here going by the way?

by **Number 9** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:38 pm

bavlondon wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Im fumin tbh , Stevie had the chance to come home an be sorted by our staff but he decided to stay an train with fecking Enguland, Torres trained an all, im sorry but Rafa should get into both of them big time, We pay there wages not there countries, Even Kuyt was carryin a knock an he played , an came off injured . livid here , Javier an Insuas heads are gonna be still in South America, But in my opinion Javier has to play, id stick Yossi in the whole behind feck knows , Sunderland are a decent side this season an im not afraid to say me a.rse has gone, Gutted completly

Nail on the head. I cannot stand it when our players of to play for countries that do not even pay their wages. I'm not anti patriotic or anything but this is just taking the now. I hope both players are feeling guilty, especially if we drop points.

I dont agree with this,Im sorry!These guys are footballers,they trained to play football from really young..its their drive,its all they are and want to be!They have achieved the dream of every young kid that ever kicked a ball,they love it and want to be part of every game,they will only not play if they are told yjey CANT AND WONT!
I will not blame Torres or Gerrard if we dont get all 3 tomorrow..I will blame England and Spain for letting them train and not listening to Rafa!

by **NANNY RED** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:57 pm

Number 9 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Im fumin tbh , Stevie had the chance to come home an be sorted by our staff but he decided to stay an train with fecking Enguland, Torres trained an all, im sorry but Rafa should get into both of them big time, We pay there wages not there countries, Even Kuyt was carryin a knock an he played , an came off injured . livid here , Javier an Insuas heads are gonna be still in South America, But in my opinion Javier has to play, id stick Yossi in the whole behind feck knows , Sunderland are a decent side this season an im not afraid to say me a.rse has gone, Gutted completly

Nail on the head. I cannot stand it when our players of to play for countries that do not even pay their wages. I'm not anti patriotic or anything but this is just taking the now. I hope both players are feeling guilty, especially if we drop points.

I dont agree with this,Im sorry!These guys are footballers,they trained to play football from really young..its their drive,its all they are and want to be!They have achieved the dream of every young kid that ever kicked a ball,they love it and want to be part of every game,they will only not play if they are told yjey CANT AND WONT!
I will not blame Torres or Gerrard if we dont get all 3 tomorrow..I will blame England and Spain for letting them train and not listening to Rafa!

Barry im not condoning them for wantin to play football, an i wont be blaming them either if we dont beat Sunderland,Good article im gonna post up at the bottom of my post lol considering hes a bitter,Iim just fuming , because Stevie got injured an was given an option to come home , (so Capello says) an Stevie said he was ok an trained then pulled up in training, he could of made the injury worse mate, He should of come back an let our medical staff sort him out straight away, thats all im moaning about, they were nothing games for both Spain an Enguland, An imo Rafa has a right to be fumin,

LONG LONG READ LOL, BUT GOOD

David Maddox Article
You know, if I see that bloody stupid meerkat advert one more time, I'll scream.

For a start, can anyone tell me why he's got an eastern European accent, when the damn creatures are from the Kalahari Desert? And why the hell would anyone confuse them with a search for car insurance?!!

What about those kitchen towels that absorb a local-swimming baths full of water? Or the soap powder that get clothes covered in (unlikely) stains so white you'll need sunglasses? Yeah. Right. Or those after shaves that have women fainting around you? I wish. No really, I do wish...every night.

Every single stupid shampoo advert, washing up liquid. Batteries. The list is endless, and they all make my blood boil (and not just because I could easily audition for a role in the Grumpy Old Men TV series).

I'm a literal sort of person, and it annoys me when things are so stupidly wrong, and yet people still fall for it blindly, and repeat it as though it is a fundamental truth. Like the idea that Liverpool are a two man team, which is a theory so widespread, it's become gospel.

For a start, how can any side be a two man team? You need at least seven to constitute a game under FA rules. And you wouldn't get very far with only two players would you? It'd be a bit one-sided, even if the opponents were as bad as my local pub team.

Getting away from the literal for a second though, it is misleading, and indeed, downright insulting, not to say palpable nonsense to suggest that the only two players Liverpool have are Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres.

Yep, the pair of them are world class, and any team would rather have them in their line up than not. And it's not exactly rocket science to work out that if you took two of the best players in the world out of the line-up, then it would be diminished somewhat. That though, is a truism that applies to every single other team in the world.

But even a cursory look at the rest of Rafael Benitez's first choice side tells you that they are hardly a two man outfit. For a start, Liverpool have the captain of Argentina, one of the most powerful footballing nations in the world, at the heart of their midfield.

Javier Mascherano has played for his country since he was 19 years old, and already has 55 caps, so he's hardly a duffer. He has been the one constant in the maelstrom of Diego Maradona's regime, and has shown world-class leadership for his nation at a crucial time, taking them into a World Cup spot in qualifying, against the odds.

Then there is Pepe Reina. As a goalkeeper, there is no doubt he is amongst the top three or four in the world, and arguably on his day - even set against the competing claims of his countryman Iker Casillas - is the best. Put it this way, he would walk into the England team right now.

Jamie Carragher has been the most consistent defender in the Premier League over the past five years, and that includes John Terry. Even Jose Mourinho once said he sometimes wished he could have a team of Carraghers.

Ok, he's had his difficulties this season, but that is as much because of the different tactical emphasis Liverpool have employed so far, as any failings on his part. Ask any manager in England, and he would be on their team-sheet. Still.

Dirk Kuyt has 56 caps for Holland, again one of the finest footballing nations on the planet, and anyone watching them play will see just how important he is to their line up.

When Kuyt went off at half time during the European Championship quarter final against Russia, his country's chances of reaching the semis went with him. His energy and positional intelligence is almost unmatched in the Premier League, which makes him a unique player.

Glen Johnson is the best right back in England, and one of the most exciting players in that position the Premier League has seen. Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel are regarded as two of the most promising young centre halves in Europe. Even young left back Emiliano Insua has just won his first Argentina cap.

Don't forget too, that last season, Liverpool won at Chelsea without Torres, drew at Arsenal without him, and beat Manchester United at Anfield with him and Gerrard on the bench. In the Champions' League, they managed a 4-4 draw at Chelsea without their skipper, too.

It is just lazy to say that Liverpool are a two man team, because the reality is, they have a perfectly respectable first XI, with many of their players coveted by other top sides. They have a team capable of challenging the best, evidence of which came last season, when they beat Chelsea and United home and away in the league.

But the problem at Anfield isn't the quality of the side, rather it is the depth of the squad. They are not a two-man team, but they are not far short of being a one-team club, which these days is a fatal flaw for any side harboring genuine title aspirations.

Liverpool don't really have any quality cover at goalkeeper, right back, right wing or left wing, and little depth to their forward line or in even central defence, given Agger's tendency towards injury. Presently, they don't have any back up in central midfield either, with summer signing Alberto Aquilani still to recover from the injury he arrived with.

That is their weakness, and it is a fundamental one. If they don't win the league this season - and from the first kick, I have suggested they will need a fair bit of luck with injuries to do so - it will be because they don't have the depth of cover in their squad to compete over the grueling length of a Premier League campaign.

It is not for the want of trying. If you include the many youngsters he has brought in to bolster the youth structure, in his five and a half years at Anfield, Rafa Benitez has signed close on 100 players for Liverpool, at a net outlay (that is, money spent minus money raised) of figures quoted variously between £90m and £125m, with perhaps the most accurate assessment being offered in The Times recently, of £111.39million.

You might have to rub your eyes at this point, but these figures really are correct. The Spanish coach has tried incredibly hard to wheel and deal to generate the funds to increase quality, and if you look at the team he inherited in 2005, there is no doubt he has done that. There is no comparison between the squad he took over and the one he has produced now. Just take a look at the pictures of the celebrations after the Champions' League final to confirm that.

The money he has spent sounds a lot, but actually, it amounts to an outlay of less than £20million a season, which buys you one decent player a year...unless that player happens to be a Kaka or Cristiano Ronaldo, of course.

When you consider there are just two players left at Anfield now from the day the manager walked in the door back in 2005, that isn't a great deal of money to bring in close on 30 players capable of hacking it at the top level. Especially when the squad he was left by Gerard Houllier generated very little in terms of revenue.

It has been a tricky situation, not made any easier by the debt problems at Anfield which required the manager to effectively sell before he could buy in the summer, destroying in the process the his hopes of again adding more depth to the squad he has so carefully been constructing over the past five years.

It is these circumstances which prompt Benitez, in more reflective moments, to quietly admit that he feels he still doesn't have the depth to his squad he would like, even if he's not exactly about to broadcast that fact on the nine o'clock news.

Any sustained period of Injuries will devastate Liverpool's campaign this season, and that doesn't mean just to Gerrard and Torres, either. Both those players were on the pitch in Florence, when the absence of Mascherano meant Benitez was forced to give full back Fabio Aurelio only his second start of the season....in central midfield.

That sums up the headache Benitez has to face in juggling his resources to try and mount a convincing title campaign. When you consider, both United and Chelsea can comfortably field two teams that would challenge in the top four of the Premier League, then he's going to have to be pretty good at keeping the balls in the air.

But let's get this straight, it's not because Liverpool are a two-man team. That is just lazy, join the dots thinking. And it is annoying. Just like those bloody meerkats.

by **fivecups** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:02 pm

Sometimes some of our other players step up and be counted when Stevie and Torres are injured. I think we'll get the 3 points tomorrow.

Kuyt up front supported by Yossi. Babel on the right, Reira on the left. Lucas and Macherano in midfield (what other option do we have, Aurelio?). Insua, Skrtel, Carra, Johnson, Reina.

No bother.

by **NANNY RED** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:23 pm

Bloo.dy Hell there only arriving tonight,

Manager Rafa Benitez must also deal with the major headache of having both his central midfield pairing returning back late from international duty, with Brazilian Lucas only arriving back on Friday afternoon, and even worse news about Argentina skipper Javier Mascherano.

He along with international team mate Emiliano Insua was unable to return to Merseyside as planned, and will now fly straight to the north east of England to team up with the Liverpool squad late on Friday evening.

by **stmichael** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:02 pm

fivecups wrote:Sometimes some of our other players step up and be counted when Stevie and Torres are injured. I think we'll get the 3 points tomorrow.

Kuyt up front supported by Yossi. Babel on the right, Reira on the left. Lucas and Macherano in midfield (what other option do we have, Aurelio?). Insua, Skrtel, Carra, Johnson, Reina.

No bother.

big game for babel if he starts. left back is sunderlands weakest link imo so if babel starts on the right lets hope he can run rings round mccartney or whoever plays left back.

mascherano has to play regardless of what time he gets back otherwise we'll get completely bullied in central midfield.

by **Greavesie** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:50 am

NANNY RED wrote:Bloo.dy Hell there only arriving tonight,

Manager Rafa Benitez must also deal with the major headache of having both his central midfield pairing returning back late from international duty, with Brazilian Lucas only arriving back on Friday afternoon, and even worse news about Argentina skipper Javier Mascherano.

He along with international team mate Emiliano Insua was unable to return to Merseyside as planned, and will now fly straight to the north east of England to team up with the Liverpool squad late on Friday evening.

this is looking very bad

lets just hope we win, we can only do our bit for the boys

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:27 am

It never ceases to amaze me how many of the people who berate me for being "negative" instantly turn pessimistic. I actually still think we'll win this, as I think we'll still have too much quality for Sunderland. Also, we will be going in with pretty much a "must win" mentality, and I think we're almost always at our best under such circumstances. So sorry for being Mr Negative, but I think we'll win.

Also, I was thinking about it this morning, and despite the injuries to gerrard and Torres we still have a pretty decent team available. Whats more it's a pretty expensive team as well, and some of the players are probably worth more than we bought them for so surely we can beat Sunderland.

How about this team for instance:

Reina (cost 6 million, obviously worth significantly more now).
Dossena (cost 7 million)
Agger (cost 5 million worth more now)
Skrtel (cost 7 million)
Johnson (cost 18 million)
Riera (cost 8 million worth more now)
Lucas (cost 8 million)
Masherano (cost 18 million)
Benayoun (cost 5 million worth more now)
Babel (cost 11 million)
Kuyt (cost 10 million)

Now if my sums are right, that team cost us about 103 million quid give or take a coupla bob. Should be good enough to see off Sunderland no bother.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:54 am

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:30 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Tit.

An excellent contribution to the football side of the debate as usual. Thank heavens all of the people who didn't contribute anything in terms of sensible comment are long gone, the forum is much the better for it I think.
And the case for the defence rests m'lud.

by **lakes10** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:34 am

ok so todays games is a very big chance for Rafa to show that he has spent good money over the last few years.

If he has spent it right we should still win this game, Players that are picked today should play out of their skins to show they should be in the first team, with that in mind i am going for a 0-3 win .

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