Liverpool FC Forum

[maypaxvobiscum]

But in all honesty, I wouldn't mind Houllier. I think given the squad BENITEZ would leave, Houllier would have a better chance of winning the league than Benitez.

What like the squad houllier left benitez with.

Take a look at your post again john and tell me how you justify your last statement.

I don't see what you're getting at igor.

But I'll try and justify it, if Houllier was to inherit this squad tomorrow I personally think he'd have more chance of winning the league than Benitez would with the same squad. It's very well suited to Houllier's style of play. With Alonso, Mascheranho and Kuyt being defensive minded players they suit Houllier's style much easier than Benitez' IMO. Benitez is more the kind of manager who wants the ball to do the work and with all due respect the likes of Kuyt and Mascheranho aren't great passers of a football, although Mascheranho is improving in this department.

I think Crouch would fit perfectly under Houllier who is always keen on the big man. Houllier signed Heskey for Liverpool and John Carew for Lyon. He likes the big man little man and even though Torres isn't a midget he's not the same size as Crouch. So I think under Houllier Crouch and Torres would work very well.

Houllier was always keen on a ball playing centre half (Hyypia) he'd have that replacement in Agger. Same with the right back, Houllier loved Heggem and Babbel who were both attack minded and chipped in with a few goals, so I think Houllier would get the best out of Arbeloa.

So I could see this squad suiting Houllier's style of play very well. We may become even more tedious to watch, and even more one dimensional because I will give Benitez his dues here, he does seem to have three or four plans for a game whereas Houllier only had the one really (throw it upto Owen and see what happened) but I would expect a league title quicker with this squad under Houllier than Benitez.

so gh doesnt have any ideas or flexibility to change a game as he only has one game plan but rafa does? so doesnt that make rafa a better manager?

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Houllier talked down this club and the team he inherited from Roy Evans (which never finished outside top 4) and made out that finishing 4th was great when he was in charge.

A few months into Rafa's first season he was saying that as the team was doing poorly, it showed that GH was indeed a good manager and should still be there, yet when they won the CL, he said that it was basically his team and this proved that he was a good manager.

Total bluffer, can't stand the fella and never could, he should also have got Owen to sign or leave for a good transfer. Fowler is right about GH.

Cr*p football too - Heskey?

i know! that fecking a$$hole had the cheek to say it was his team. and the way they mismanaged players like westerveld, fowler, camara, matteo, etc

terrible. i thought we had a very very promising scouse team under evans till GH came in and brought his loonies with him

Carra, Gerrard, Murphy, Owen (cheshire) and Fowler was the spine of our side under Houllier...not enough scousers?

Wright (derby), Redknapp (london), McManaman, Fowler, Collymore (birmingham) so where's the good scouse team coming through?

Or are you classing Dom Matteo and Phil Charnock as the next generation?

[Yari7]

HHoullier did pretty well with Lyon, but he underacheived with them int he Champion League. Lyon were amongst the favourites to win the Champions League a couple of seasons ago, but it never materialized.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

But in all honesty, I wouldn't mind Houllier. I think given the squad BENITEZ would leave, Houllier would have a better chance of winning the league than Benitez.

What like the squad houllier left benitez with.

Take a look at your post again john and tell me how you justify your last statement.

I don't see what you're getting at igor.

But I'll try and justify it, if Houllier was to inherit this squad tomorrow I personally think he'd have more chance of winning the league than Benitez would with the same squad. It's very well suited to Houllier's style of play. With Alonso, Mascheranho and Kuyt being defensive minded players they suit Houllier's style much easier than Benitez' IMO. Benitez is more the kind of manager who wants the ball to do the work and with all due respect the likes of Kuyt and Mascheranho aren't great passers of a football, although Mascheranho is improving in this department.

I think Crouch would fit perfectly under Houllier who is always keen on the big man. Houllier signed Heskey for Liverpool and John Carew for Lyon. He likes the big man little man and even though Torres isn't a midget he's not the same size as Crouch. So I think under Houllier Crouch and Torres would work very well.

Houllier was always keen on a ball playing centre half (Hyypia) he'd have that replacement in Agger. Same with the right back, Houllier loved Heggem and Babbel who were both attack minded and chipped in with a few goals, so I think Houllier would get the best out of Arbeloa.

So I could see this squad suiting Houllier's style of play very well. We may become even more tedious to watch, and even more one dimensional because I will give Benitez his dues here, he does seem to have three or four plans for a game whereas Houllier only had the one really (throw it upto Owen and see what happened) but I would expect a league title quicker with this squad under Houllier than Benitez.

so gh doesnt have any ideas or flexibility to change a game as he only has one game plan but rafa does? so doesnt that make rafa a better manager?

On that side of the game, yes Benitez outclasses Houllier but the reason Benitez has the ability to change it is because his first plan very rarely works.

[maypaxvobiscum]

But in all honesty, I wouldn't mind Houllier. I think given the squad BENITEZ would leave, Houllier would have a better chance of winning the league than Benitez.

What like the squad houllier left benitez with.

Take a look at your post again john and tell me how you justify your last statement.

I don't see what you're getting at igor.

But I'll try and justify it, if Houllier was to inherit this squad tomorrow I personally think he'd have more chance of winning the league than Benitez would with the same squad. It's very well suited to Houllier's style of play. With Alonso, Mascheranho and Kuyt being defensive minded players they suit Houllier's style much easier than Benitez' IMO. Benitez is more the kind of manager who wants the ball to do the work and with all due respect the likes of Kuyt and Mascheranho aren't great passers of a football, although Mascheranho is improving in this department.

I think Crouch would fit perfectly under Houllier who is always keen on the big man. Houllier signed Heskey for Liverpool and John Carew for Lyon. He likes the big man little man and even though Torres isn't a midget he's not the same size as Crouch. So I think under Houllier Crouch and Torres would work very well.

Houllier was always keen on a ball playing centre half (Hyypia) he'd have that replacement in Agger. Same with the right back, Houllier loved Heggem and Babbel who were both attack minded and chipped in with a few goals, so I think Houllier would get the best out of Arbeloa.

So I could see this squad suiting Houllier's style of play very well. We may become even more tedious to watch, and even more one dimensional because I will give Benitez his dues here, he does seem to have three or four plans for a game whereas Houllier only had the one really (throw it upto Owen and see what happened) but I would expect a league title quicker with this squad under Houllier than Benitez.

so gh doesnt have any ideas or flexibility to change a game as he only has one game plan but rafa does? so doesnt that make rafa a better manager?

On that side of the game, yes Benitez outclasses Houllier but the reason Benitez has the ability to change it is because his first plan very rarely works.

how can it be said that a team should go onto the field with a single plan and expect it to work? you're actually playing another team here who has plans of their own so obviously as much we would want a plan to work, we also have to consider their blows. thats where flexibilty is needed and a reason why i think  saying rafa's first plan rarely works cos its just a matter of how versatile the team is.

[LFC2007]

It's like trying to reason with a budgerigar.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Benitez' first plan rarely works because up until this season it was give it to Gerrard and hope he can work magic. This season it's been give it to Gerrard and hope he can pick out Torres. There's been no creativity in this side for a long time. Benayoun is meant to do that job but struggles to play that role to any deverstating effect. Garcia was similar. They'd play two or three games in every fifteen where they'd shine.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Benitez' first plan rarely works because up until this season it was give it to Gerrard and hope he can work magic. This season it's been give it to Gerrard and hope he can pick out Torres. There's been no creativity in this side for a long time. Benayoun is meant to do that job but struggles to play that role to any deverstating effect. Garcia was similar. They'd play two or three games in every fifteen where they'd shine.

isnt that the same with GH when he pumps the ball to heskey who nods it down to owen and ta-daa?

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Benitez' first plan rarely works because up until this season it was give it to Gerrard and hope he can work magic. This season it's been give it to Gerrard and hope he can pick out Torres. There's been no creativity in this side for a long time. Benayoun is meant to do that job but struggles to play that role to any deverstating effect. Garcia was similar. They'd play two or three games in every fifteen where they'd shine.

isnt that the same with GH when he pumps the ball to heskey who nods it down to owen and ta-daa?

yes which is why I said that Houllier usually only had the one plan.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Benitez' first plan rarely works because up until this season it was give it to Gerrard and hope he can work magic. This season it's been give it to Gerrard and hope he can pick out Torres. There's been no creativity in this side for a long time. Benayoun is meant to do that job but struggles to play that role to any deverstating effect. Garcia was similar. They'd play two or three games in every fifteen where they'd shine.

isnt that the same with GH when he pumps the ball to heskey who nods it down to owen and ta-daa?

yes which is why I said that Houllier usually only had the one plan.

and why would a manager with just one plan have a better crack at winning the league compared to the other who has more?

[Yari7]

Benitez' first plan rarely works because up until this season it was give it to Gerrard and hope he can work magic. This season it's been give it to Gerrard and hope he can pick out Torres. There's been no creativity in this side for a long time. Benayoun is meant to do that job but struggles to play that role to any deverstating effect. Garcia was similar. They'd play two or three games in every fifteen where they'd shine.

Your making it sound as if there is something wrong with making use of your key players.

Isn't Fergies plan to get it to ROnaldo so he can work magi.. Doesnt Wenger wont the ball given to Fabregas so he can work some magic?

[woof woof !]

Houllier should never have come back after his operation. He was away for five months during which time Phil Thompson put us well on our way to our best ever premiership finish (2nd , seven points behind Arsenal, three ahead of Man U).

He wasn't the same fella when he came back LFC 's progression suddenly seemed to lose momentum , mirroring the managers health both mental and physical. Subsequent seasons saw an increasingly hit and hope style of play, an anathema to fans raised on our teams famed "pass and move" methodology, to compound matters each defeat was  being met with Houlliers bizarre declarations that "we had turned a corner", we turned so many corners under Houllier that I ended up thinking we were stuck on a f'ucking roundabout. Coupled to this were dubious signing of an increasingly desperate Houllier, La Tellec, Sinima Pongolle, Biscan, Cheyrou, Diouff ,Diao and Cisse. All of them being descibed as absolute gems or "the next Zidane" , whilst not being bad players they hardly stood up then and certainly now to Houliers assessment.

Houllier himself admitted a year or so after leaving Liverpool that he took the Lyon job because the team was already in place as he didn't have the strength to build another team. Pity he never came to that conclusion halfway through his tenure with us.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Houllier should never have come back after his operation. He was away for five months during which time Phil Thompson put us well on our way to our best ever premiership finish (2nd , seven points behind Arsenal, three ahead of Man U).

He wasn't the same fella when he came back LFC 's progression suddenly seemed to lose momentum , mirroring the managers health both mental and physical. Subsequent seasons saw an increasingly hit and hope style of play, an anathema to fans raised on our teams famed "pass and move" methodology, to compound matters each defeat was  being met with Houlliers bizarre declarations that "we had turned a corner", we turned so many corners under Houllier that I ended up thinking we were stuck on a f'ucking roundabout. Coupled to this were dubious signing of an increasingly desperate Houllier, La Tellec, Sinima Pongolle, Biscan, Cheyrou, Diouff ,Diao and Cisse. All of them being descibed as absolute gems or "the next Zidane" , whilst not being bad players they hardly stood up then and certainly now to Houliers assessment.

Houllier himself admitted a year or so after leaving Liverpool that he took the Lyon job because the team was already in place as he didn't have the strength to build another team. Pity he never came to that conclusion halfway through his tenure with us.

  so true

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I'll leave this debate where it is if somebody can justify the difference between this and Souness and Evans which I'll explain later on.

OK so Benitez is "a better manager" because he won the European Cup compared to Houllier's UEFA Cup. I don't believe that for one minute because on that theory Benitez is better manager than Shankly and Dalglish. But hey that's what people want to believe then all credit to them. But just like the European Cup is a bigger trophy than the UEFA, in England the FA Cup is bigger and more prestigious than than the League Cup. However Graeme Souness gets absolouted slaughtered and Roy Evans gets held as playing the best football Liverpool have seen in the last 15 years. So despite Souness winning a bigger and more prestigious trophy than Evans, Evans in people's eyes is the better manager and people think it's me who contradicts himself.

Benitez is a better manager than Houllier because he won a bigger trophy.
Evans is a better manager than Souness despite Souness winning the bigger trophy.

Can someone justify how that's the case. I can say Souness isn't as good a manger because I don't base my judgement on the prestige of a trophy like most on here are doing. But for people to claim Evans is the better manager than slag Houllier off for not winning as big a trophy as Benitez is total bollox and a huge contradiction.

[Bad Bob]

I'll leave this debate where it is if somebody can justify the difference between this and Souness and Evans which I'll explain later on.

OK so Benitez is "a better manager" because he won the European Cup compared to Houllier's UEFA Cup. I don't believe that for one minute because on that theory Benitez is better manager than Shankly and Dalglish. But hey that's what people want to believe then all credit to them. But just like the European Cup is a bigger trophy than the UEFA, in England the FA Cup is bigger and more prestigious than than the League Cup. However Graeme Souness gets absolouted slaughtered and Roy Evans gets held as playing the best football Liverpool have seen in the last 15 years. So despite Souness winning a bigger and more prestigious trophy than Evans, Evans in people's eyes is the better manager and people think it's me who contradicts himself.

Benitez is a better manager than Houllier because he won a bigger trophy.
Evans is a better manager than Souness despite Souness winning the bigger trophy.

Can someone justify how that's the case. I can say Souness isn't as good a manger because I don't base my judgement on the prestige of a trophy like most on here are doing. But for people to claim Evans is the better manager than slag Houllier off for not winning as big a trophy as Benitez is total bollox and a huge contradiction.

People aren't slagging Houlier off for winning a smaller trophy than Benitez, they're slagging you off for not acknowledging that winning the Champions League is a bigger achievement than winning the UEFA Cup.